welcome to Nevergiveup

[Alan Mendelson]

I personally would like to welcome Nevergiveup to the forum who said he's interested in learning about craps.

Please learn etiquette at the craps table. Watch your hands, bet when the dice are with the stickman, don't crowd the shooter and PLEASE wait till a new comeout roll before throwing your money or chips on the table.

Craps is a sensitive game and if you enter a hot roll at the wrong time and by coincidence things go bad YOU will be blamed and not the shooter/dice. Yes it sounds crazy but it's true.

And while there are a lot of superstitions in craps it's better to accept them than to fight them. If you accept them you'll have more enjoyment at the table. If you fight the superstitions it could end up in a real fight.

And what isn't based on superstition is just plain courtesy. It's never bad to be courteous. Give the shooter room, give him time. If the shooter is a quiet guy don't yell, but if the shooter is loud and verbal show him your support as loudly as you like.

And be polite to the dealers. Say please and thank you.

[da82]

Alan-What casino in Vegas is good as far as player etiquette goes? The casino in my home area is mostly regulars who know the rules and follow proper etiquette, but it seems every time I play in Vegas it's constant buy ins and hands in the tub.

[MisterV]

The players at MGM and Bellagio seem to have good etiquette, but then again they're generally older, better dressed, and presumably better educated than most of the players you see at the tables.

[Alan Mendelson]

Unfortunately at Caesars Palace they've done away with etiquette -- literally. Dealers have been instructed to allow players to buy in at any time. In fact, they'll even invite players to buy in at any time, even if a player is at the rail waiting for the next come out.

Dealers will also hold tutoring conversations with "onlookers" at a game in progress and there was a time when "onlookers" were told to go to an empty table to ask questions. And whenever there is a tutorial session the word "seven" must be mentioned, and that is an etiquette no-no for craps players.

There was also a time at Caesars when the boxmen would not allow a player to buyin during a roll -- but there are no boxmen.

I've played at Sam's Town at their $5 table and you get players who buy in at any time and know nothing about etiquette. At Red Rock there are actually people who will adjust their bets on the table (usually in the field) even as the dice are flying towards them.

I'll agree with V that Bellagio players are more likely to follow etiquette. I haven't played at MGM in probably more than a decade ever since they said I could not throw the dice there. I've played a little at Flamingo and Paris and those tourists know nothing about anything about craps.

I will say that at Caesars there are players who want etiquette followed but the dealers have been instructed to take money at anytime, and to invite players in at anytime. It's very frustrating for these old school players.

[Barney]

This is Barney,

Nevergiveup and Neversurrender, the game of the craps is the most greatest of games. There are many of the ins and the outs to learn about the craps. If you are skilled or lucky you can win lots of chips for the ladies. Now I only play slut machine devices but my greatest pal the LID is a world class DI personage. Lots of wonderful happenings can occur at the table of the craps. I remember about 10 years ago or so, the LID and his pal Dan Mahoney (a professional player of the craps) were very much drunk at the tables in the most greatest Palace of Caesars when the LID threw many, many combinations of the eleven. I think he said it was about 18 of them in a row but said he was too incoherent to take what the tables was giving him. It just goes to show what a wonderful game the craps is, and anything is possible but you should not drink and toss the dices.


Thank you very much

[kewlJ]

For any new members that may not know, "Barney" is Rob Singer, internet troll extraordinaire.

[RS__]

Oh yeah, I like Barney's posting style. But it'd be more effective if you knew what you were talking about. Remember, winning at the game of chance is 50/50, because you iether win or lose.

Idk who this new person is, but welcome to the forum. Sooner or later you'll learn who to steer clear from.

[DJatc]

PLEASE wait till a new comeout roll before throwing your money or chips on the table.

aint nobody got time fo dat i be throwin my stacks whenever

[nevergiveup]

Thank you.
I know about craps etiquette. I also know not to give advice at the table---either the other person doesn't want to hear it at all or they become belligerent.
When I am having a good run, the dealers always participate while it is happening. And if I have had a crappy day, the dealers at least get something.
I may be fairly new, but not inexperienced and I am an avid student.
What I do hope to read is what people are doing that has led to some success. Some people believe, as I do, that we can have some influence on the dice, albeit small, anything is better than nothing.

[Alan Mendelson]

Wow did you come to the wrong place to talk about DI. Just mention it and you're immediately added to the shit list... except if you're regnis who somehow has escaped the attacks.

My feeling is DI is possible but frankly I've seen only three shooters who I honestly believe have a controlled throw. But even though that's three out of thousands of shooters I've seen over 20+ years of playing craps the critics of DI say even having three DIs in the world is impossible. I've never seen regnis shoot but he would be DI #4.

I also see no harm in trying to influence the dice. And frankly EVERYONE tries to influence the dice one way or another. The dark side shooters throw them hard and fast trying to increase the chances of a seven and the right way shooters use a set.

Frankly the only reason I think those three were true DIs was because each did the same thing: they set their dice using either the hard way set or the V set, they had a soft toss with the dice traveling together, and the dice gently hit the table rolling softly to the center of the wall. And if you can do that much you have more skill than the average bear.

I wish I could do that much. But I keep trying. I find that I do have a soft throw and if I can keep my dice toss low with the dice parallel to the table I tend to avoid sevens better. Could it just be luck? Of course it could. Frankly there is no way to prove DI. The naysayers want to see videos of perfect rolls with dice never moving off axis, but I've never seen dice constantly remain on axis. So there can never be proof as far as I know. Nothing will satisfy the critics and I really don't blame them because they obviously didn't see the three shooters I saw.

By the way, one of those shooters is a surgeon in Washington State. If ever the critics need that surgeon they had better hope he's as skilled as he is and his hands are as steady as I know they are.

[MisterV]

Nevergiveup, there are some forum members, myself included, who believe the DI seminars and books are part of "a long con" invented and marketed by snake oil salesmen who are trying to recoup some oftheir losses by duping the rubes.

I say this in part because, unlike card counting for example, there is no objective, empiircal evidence that DI actually provides a long term advantage.

So long as it is a matter of faith as opposed to something supported by real proof I'm not drinking the Kool-Aid.

Welcome to the board.

[Alan Mendelson]

Let me add something to what MisterV said that might actually surprise MisterV. As he said there is no evidence that DI provides an advantage and it's because AS FAR AD I KNOW THERE ARE ONLY THREE TRUE DIs. At least that's all I've seen. I understand MisterV has yet to see even one. So I can't blame him for his comments.

I will also add that schools can't give you the actual skill just like a golf coach or a tennis coach or even a darts coach cant give you those skills.

[LarryS]

Craps is a fun game. I playedit weekly for 20 years in atlantic city before i moved west and discovered sports betting and hold-em

So have fun playing. But just realize, at this point in time there is no newly invented method of play that defeats the house edge.Everythig has been tried and simmed a hundred times over. If there was a real "best method" that made consistent money, it would be on the internet, and all the other methods would be ignored.

So knowing this....and having the masses realize the above statement is true......gullible people are turning away from finding the newest best "system" of play....to developing a belief that DI is the way.

As Alan has stated(if you are to believe him)...he has seen 3 real succssfull DI folks. So the chances of you being at a table with a real DI is remote. If you see someone setting the dice at a table, 99.9 percent of the time it will be a wannabe DI that only manages to roll randomly.

I personally dont think DI works because casinos allow setting.

So as a new poster, you should know that there is not a person here I have seen that wins consistently at craps via DI.....although some come here with a financial interest and say they do in order to sell courses or materials. It will be up to you to recognize and buyer beware. Do what you want in the end.

[nevergiveup]

Thanks to all for your comments. I realize not everyone agrees with DI, that's fine with me. I hopefully will just be able to converse with those that do and not be bothered by those that don't. I have seen people who---on more than one occasion---consistently roll certain outside numbers. Is it DI? Is it just random luck? I don't know---I just know I need to bet on those numbers when he shoots. Does it work every time? NO. But the wins far outdo the losses for me.
This game also includes betting----and everyone has there own opinion on that also.
I have read some of regnis posts and really enjoy them.
Now need to scroll through Alan's posts-----he appears to have a few of them !!!!!

[FABismonte]

Hi Nevergiveup:

If you are interested in Alan's posts, you may want to look at this website regarding Craps:

http://www.alanbestbuys.com/id422.html

FAB

[regnis]

Nice to have another craps player aboard Never. You will find that most here do not believe in dice control or any form of dice influence. You have also read some of my posts re same. If you do believe that you can exercise some control you will have to spend 1000's of hours practicing under varied conditions. However, the big problem that you will encounter is that most of the tables are too bouncy now to implement a controlled throw. Besides life and age and work and health, the bouncy tables were still one of the primary reasons that I gave it up.

But I always feel you have nothing to lose by trying. So do the best you can and enjoy the game.

[Alan Mendelson]

I also follow regnis on this about dice influencing: you have nothing to lose by trying.

Regarding table conditions: I prefer the hard tables (low bounce) at Sam's Town in East LV, and at Sun Coast in Summerlin. Red Rock has good tables that are smaller than many casinos. Bellagio I think has good lighting, smaller tables and a moderate bounce. I avoid Caesars because their new tables are larger and the tables are very bouncy with a new faster cloth.

There is an interesting condition at Rampart Casino in Summerlin. They have a heavy cloth on the table that catches the corners of the dice and almost stops them from rolling and for this reason I've never seen them enforce the back wall rule. But the tables are long and it's very unlikely anyone will have any influence with such a distance and "sticky" table. Rampart still has the Fire Bet.

[nevergiveup]

I already practice virtually every day and have a "bouncy" table I practice upon. To read that you gave this up is not very encouraging----but I am not discouraged.
The casino will always try something to inhibit craps players however there may be ways to at least have a modest turn in my favor. I will stay with this until it no longer seems at all useful.
I did send you a PM---if you read them.

[nevergiveup]

Thanks Alan. I play mostly on the East coast as I live there----and get to Las Vegas a few times a year. The last time I was there, I found the lone table a Hooters to be much to my liking.
I have played at Sun Coast and Red Rock albeit briefly and will go back to them next time.
Thanks for the advice on places to play.

[Alan Mendelson]

You have no chance for success as a DI on a bouncy table. Practice all you want. You need a table where the dice "clunck" when they hit the table.

The whole point of DI is to minimize the bounce and rotation of dice. You can have the most perfect throw in the world but a bouncy table will negate everything you do.