Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 62

Thread: A Theory About Anti-AP Posters

  1. #1
    I was going to save the bulk of this for my own site, but I'll share it briefly. Many of my ideas have been aided by repeat readings of "Addiction by Design" by the anthropologist Natasha Schull.

    Modern machine gambling is now a generation old. It is the most addictive form of gambling, and many people have now been exposed to it for more than 20 years. There exists an entire generation of addicted machine gamblers. Unless they are utterly disciplined, incredibly experienced APs, they lose. They pretty up their addiction with words like "recreational" and "fun." I'm good with that because addictions and recreation and fun all pretty much seem to go together to me, at least in a superficial sense.

    This site has a number of people who appear to be anti-AP. Bill Yung, Mr. Mendelson, LarryS, OneHit (now departed), Rob Singer (also banned), coach belly, and so on. The interesting thing is that none of them have proclaimed that they don't gamble or that gambling is wrong. What they each argue is that the APs are lying, making things up, and that they themselves wouldn't spend their valuable life hours APing if they could, although they will spend hours losing money because it's fun or recreational or budgeted as such.

    Now the quick obvious conclusion is that the anti-APs have disdain for the APs because the anti-APs lose and the APs report that they don't. That's certainly logical. But here's my Twilight Zone twist. I think the anti-APs despise the APs because the APs have the ability, by definition, to get up and leave whenever the odds are against them. The anti-APs simply do not have that ability, given their addiction(s). They need "time on device" regardless of the odds, so they construct all kinds of mental masturbations like stop losses and per day budgets and defining machine gambling as "fun" to justify their behaviors. I submit that it's the APs alleged ability to NOT gamble (unless the EV is in their favor) that fuels the disdain and hatred for them by the anti-APs.

  2. #2
    where did i proclaim that I am anti AP.

    I am anti scam artist. So DI promoters,or JP who makes ridiculous claims based on the fact that math doesnt effect him because he does not play in the long run ,,,the long run evades him.

    So when does being against con artists make me anti AP.

    I am on record as just a few hours ago, I noted that I believe KJ makes money and lives off of gambling.

    I dont think AP is a profession, so what. I dont think dog walking is a profession....but that doesnt mean I am anti dog walkers.

    you generalize and make statements that are useless and false.

  3. #3
    I don't know that LarryS is anti-AP. Larry definitely has some dislike for a few of us (mickey, myself and others) that are AP's, but I don't know that the root of his dislike is because we are AP's. I think he has other reasons for disliking us and it just so happens several of us are APs. Maybe he is...I don't know. Maybe I am forgetting. I'll give him a pass for now, unless I am reminded of something that I am forgetting.

    But there is a definite anti-AP crowd, Alan, coach belly, Bill young, among active members, onehitwonder, blackhole, Rob Singer, among inactive or banned members. I am sure there are others that I am forgetting. And many of these folks have been on multiple sites.

    I am not smart enough to know the psychology of it, and I didn't even sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night, so I don't know what the deal is. BUT it is weird. Because it is really deep-seeded hate for the AP's that participate here. I mean I have gotten some emails from Singer that probably approach the level of criminality. On Wizard's site, a member doxxed me and was requesting any info on me (name, picture, address, phone number) from anyone who had it.

    It's a level of contempt and hate that really is unexplainable. On this site, when I shared my medical situation last fall, there were people openly wishing nasty thoughts, and there continue to be nasty little jabs (as recently as this past weekend) about my health. It really is unexplainable, but it is real.

  4. #4
    Originally Posted by LarryS View Post
    you generalize and make statements that are useless and false.
    Larry is correct, the statement below does not apply to me.

    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    What they each argue is that the APs are lying, making things up, and that they themselves wouldn't spend their valuable life hours APing if they could
    I am not anti advantage play, it's silly to assert that I am anti-strategy. I have spent time APing, I would and will again.

    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    It's a level of contempt and hate that really is unexplainable.
    I have no contempt or hate for advantage players...take AxelWolf , who I've read is considered to be among the top APs ,
    I've never had a negative interaction with him at all, never a cross word exchanged between us.

    I have contempt for liars, folks who come onto this forum and deliberately post outright lies.

    A liar has no credibility...if someone is willing to lie about one thing, then he'll lie about anything.

    Nothing that a liar claims without proof should be considered legitimate, everything he claims should be vigilantly examined
    in an effort to find the truth.

    You are a proven and admitted liar.

    Does that explain it?
    Last edited by coach belly; 01-15-2018 at 10:56 PM.

  5. #5
    Originally Posted by coach belly View Post
    I have no contempt or hate for advantage players
    No? You have trolled the hell out of mickey forever.

    You continue to troll me.

    Just yesterday, you attacked member tableplay, calling him a fraud.

    Just today a new member girlfriday introduces herself stating she only plays with an advantage. You immediately respond demanding proof, wanting her to post win-loss statements. Warm welcome.

    Nope, No anti-AP bias is there? That is ALL you do! When was the last time you posted something useful, something beneficial to anyone on the forum. All you do is troll with an anti-Ap bias, laying in the weeds, waiting to spring, searching for some sort of "gottcha ya" moment. You are not here to contribute in a positive manner, you are here to troll. Dan looked at Biloxy bill's recent posts and decided he wasn't here to contribute anything, only to troll. I would ask him to do the same with you.

    Originally Posted by coach belly View Post
    I have contempt for liars, folks who come onto this forum and deliberately post outright lies.

    A liar has no credibility...if someone is willing to lie about one thing, then he'll lie about anything.

    Nothing that a liar claims without proof should be considered legitimate, everything he claims should be vigilantly examined
    in an effort to find the truth.

    You are a proven and admitted liar.

    Does that explain it?
    No it doesn't explain it, but you did just prove my point beyond any doubt. You are full of hate, for whatever reason.

  6. #6
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    But here's my Twilight Zone twist. I think the anti-APs despise the APs because the APs have the ability, by definition, to get up and leave whenever the odds are against them. The anti-APs simply do not have that ability
    Eh, maybe.

    Then again, maybe one or more of the so-called anti-AP's is just trolling.

    Really, their animus is based on something deeper than superficial jealousy over perceived willpower.

    The result: a seething anger thankful for finding a target.
    What, Me Worry?

  7. #7
    I'm not anti AP. I'm anti unrealistic claims and I am against misinformation. I have on my website dozens of pages of casino information I believe in which I hope will give my readers an advantage in the situations I know.

    Redietz you never told me you were selling information as a sports tipster. You wanted me to read 75 or so pages of documents with the goal of having me make some public statement about your success. You almost got it. You pressured me to hurry it up and I disappointed you when I had other things to do in my life.

    Had you told me you were selling your services and you wanted an endorsement I would have told you I don't endorse gamblers or their services. I did not endorse Singer and I clearly say that on my website. I do not endorse any dice school. I do not endorse any casino company though I have done work for several.

  8. #8
    Great synopsis, redietz.

    larry, please don't go back to your old and worn out tirades on GF about machine AP's being "button pushers."
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  9. #9
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    I'm not anti AP. I'm anti unrealistic claims and I am against misinformation. I have on my website dozens of pages of casino information I believe in which I hope will give my readers an advantage in the situations I know.

    Redietz you never told me you were selling information as a sports tipster. You wanted me to read 75 or so pages of documents with the goal of having me make some public statement about your success. You almost got it. You pressured me to hurry it up and I disappointed you when I had other things to do in my life.

    Had you told me you were selling your services and you wanted an endorsement I would have told you I don't endorse gamblers or their services. I did not endorse Singer and I clearly say that on my website. I do not endorse any dice school. I do not endorse any casino company though I have done work for several.
    There you go back into your fantasy world. You are the last person in the world he would want an endorsement from. Anyone who reads you knows you haven't a clue about strategic gambling.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  10. #10
    Mickeycrimm if redietz didn't want an endorsement from me why did he bother to send me those documents to read and comment on? Why didn't he send them to Dan or to any of the authors working for Frank Scoblete's various websites?

    He also had plenty of time to send his package to others and he said he would -- but he never did. He also could have posted a bibliography of his credits here WHICH WOULD NOT HAVE VIOLATED ANY COPYRIGHT LAWS but he never did that. He singled me out. Why, I don't know because from the start I told him I had NO knowledge of sports betting.

    Because he knew well in advance that I had NO knowledge of sports betting it will always puzzle me why he chose me?

  11. #11
    Another intentionally divisive thread from another person drowning. Yawn.
    78255585899=317*13723*17989=(310+7)*[(13730-7)*(100*100+7979+10)]-->LOVE avatar@137_371_179_791, or 137_371_17[3^2]_7[3^2]1, 1=V-->Ace, low. 78255585899-->99858555287=(99858555288-1)=[-1+(72*2227)*(722777-100000)]={-1+(72*2227)*[(2000+700777+20000)-100000]}-->1_722_227_277_772_1. 7×8×2×5×5×5×8×5×8×9×9=362880000=(1000000000-6√97020000-100000)-->169_721. (7/8×2/5×5/5×8/5×8/9×9)={[(-.1+.9)]^2×(6+1)}-->1961=√4*2.24; (1/7×8/2×5/5×5/8×5/8×9/9)={1/[7×(-.2+1)^2]}-->1721=[(10*10/4)/(√4+110)].

  12. #12
    redietz is mostly correct.

    People tend to challenge anything which appears like it might be different AND better than the situation they have going on.

    You see someone with a nicer car than you, and you say to yourself, "The maintenance must cost a fortune... AND look how quickly it depreciates!!"

    You see someone with a better seat at a ballgame or concert and you say to yourself, "What a waste of money! I can enjoy it just as well over here for a fraction of the price!"

    You see a guy with a hot girl and say to yourself, "I bet she's using him for his money and doesn't care about him."

    You see a guy with a better job than you and say to yourself, "I bet he's a workaholic, always stressed out, and has no time for himself."

    You get my point.

    Nobody wants to feel inferior, and nobody wants to feel like a sucker.

    For a non-AP to acknowledge that AP works, it's essentially saying, "You guys are smart enough to beat the casino for money, while I am a dope who constantly loses to them."

    That's not a very nice thing to admit to yourself.

    Therefore, the rationalizing takes place.

    "Most APs don't make money."

    "The few APs who do make money greatly exaggerate their winnings."

    "Winning in gambling is all about luck, not finding small edges. The lucky person is the winner, and the unlucky one is the loser, which is why APs often have losing sessions and non-APs often have big winning sessions."

    "Setting a stop-loss allows me to either lose a little or win a lot."

    etc etc etc etc

    It's the casual gambler's way of de-legitimizing what APs have accomplished, and they haven't.

    It's too bad that these casual gamblers can't just admit the truth:

    AP is work. It's not fun. It's not relaxing. It's often very tedious. It requires tremendous discipline.

    Casual gambling allows you to have fun, play only what you enjoy, and expend very little effort. If you don't mind losing in the long run, it's far more relaxing than being an AP.

    These are truths. That's why I don't begrudge casual gamblers. If they want to play -EV games because it's fun, then great. AP isn't for eveyone.

    However, I do find it annoying when these casual gamblers are delusional and believe that they have the same chance to win as APs do.

    They don't, and they never will.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  13. #13
    All very true, Dan.

    Another issue is that “casual” gamblers who spend large amounts of time and money in casinos tend to be in their own little (delusional) world. They constantly encounter people who falsify their results in their own heads and to others, so they assume that even those few who are competent advantage players are doing the same.

  14. #14
    What you wrote may be true Dan but does that make anyone anti AP?

    We would all like to have an advantage when we play. I look forward to the APs sharing their helpful information. Who will post first?

  15. #15
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    What you wrote may be true Dan but does that make anyone anti AP?
    Of course, everything has some truth to it. And some problems. The irony here is that our AP's want to advance their side (against the ones who point out problems with their matter of fact statements) with the argument that people take sides because... . An argument with zero bearing at any time if only to take another side.

    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    We would all like to have an advantage when we play. I look forward to the APs sharing their helpful information. Who will post first?
    Yeah, tell us some more about your non-qualifying mortgages. And how your day isn't complete until you take another picture of something.
    78255585899=317*13723*17989=(310+7)*[(13730-7)*(100*100+7979+10)]-->LOVE avatar@137_371_179_791, or 137_371_17[3^2]_7[3^2]1, 1=V-->Ace, low. 78255585899-->99858555287=(99858555288-1)=[-1+(72*2227)*(722777-100000)]={-1+(72*2227)*[(2000+700777+20000)-100000]}-->1_722_227_277_772_1. 7×8×2×5×5×5×8×5×8×9×9=362880000=(1000000000-6√97020000-100000)-->169_721. (7/8×2/5×5/5×8/5×8/9×9)={[(-.1+.9)]^2×(6+1)}-->1961=√4*2.24; (1/7×8/2×5/5×5/8×5/8×9/9)={1/[7×(-.2+1)^2]}-->1721=[(10*10/4)/(√4+110)].

  16. #16
    I am not "anti-AP" as I fully recognize how card counting has provided a mathematical advantage to counters.

    As time passed I learned of other AP methods: edge sorting, shuffle tracking: it all "computes," it all is logical and supportable.

    However I do not believe DI affords any AP at craps; in that one instance I suppose it could be said I am "anti-AP," but that would be incorrect as it has never been established that DI actually is a viable form of AP.

    Looking back, I probably should have warmed up to BJ and card counting, but it never floated my boat; oh well.
    What, Me Worry?

  17. #17
    I have a hard time agreeing with much of this. AP or not, I want to see everyone beat the casino. Whatever your advantage, gimmick, good luck charm, skill, or whatever may be, I want you all to win. So while I am certainly not in the anti-AP camp here (more like Switzerland) , I have a few times questioned some things. I guess the difference is I heard the answers and moved on, whether I agreed with them or not.

    For example, before Alan and Kewl really got into it, I was the first to question counting multiple tables. Kewl explained it and I accepted it. I can't do it---I can barely see the cards at my own table--and I don't completely buy the premise that missing a few cards doesn't materially impact the count. But I am no longer in that business and Kewl is making a profit so it seems to be working for him. So no problemo here.

    But to say that several here are just anti AP I think is erroneous.

  18. #18
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by coach belly View Post
    I have no contempt or hate for advantage players
    No? You have trolled the hell out of mickey forever.

    You continue to troll me.
    I respond in kind to indivduals who bring up my name in their posts.

    Some may be advantage players, but I don't consider their AP status, only their actions towards me.

    You brought my name up in your initial contribution to this thread.
    I responded to your mischaracterization...that's not trolling, nor does it demonstrate any bias towards a group.

    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Just yesterday, you attacked member tableplay, calling him a fraud.
    tableplay provided a fraudulent answer to a legitimate question about his heads-up play,
    after he concocted a phony scenario about only playing positive counts when heads-up.

    I'll ask the same question of you, how is that possible from the beginning of the shoe?

    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Just today a new member girlfriday introduces herself stating she only plays with an advantage. You immediately respond demanding proof, wanting her to post win-loss statements. Warm welcome.
    I didn't demand proof.

    She wrote...

    Originally Posted by girlfriday View Post
    I'm ahead, but I can't prove that I am and I wouldn't even know how to do that even if I chose to. How have others here provided proof?
    I answered with a suggestion...

    Originally Posted by coach belly View Post
    Post screenshots of your win/loss statements for the years that you played.
    I was being helpful, I didn't demand anything. How else could she prove that's she's ahead?

    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    You are full of hate, for whatever reason.
    You repeatedly posted here accusing me of a crime. You apologized, then doubled down on it.

    You are every bit as vile and twisted as Biloxi Bill.

    You should have been banned for that, and you should still be banned for it.

  19. #19
    They're not anti-AP. They're just completely misinformed.

  20. #20
    Let's be honest here. Our AP members have made some glorious comments about how great they are. They always invoke "the math" but we don't see what they're doing though they do tell us how great they are. Jbjb has never lost. Kewlj says he lost but it's part of his grand plan that will actually give him a profit. Mickeycrimm is raping the machines in every bar in Montana and actually has time to take photo tours of casinos around the country while stumbling on where ploppies have left low hanging fruit. And RS overnight went from am off strip craps dealer to a Seven Stars player.

    Sometimes our imaginations are challenged.

    Meanwhile the only expert player I know on the forum is Dan who, to the best of my knowledge, failed to cash in last year's WSOP and he hasn't questioned the remarkable success of the others.

    And if anyone dares to question the APs they (we) are immediately labeled as not only anti AP but ignorant of any kind of intelligence on the casino floor.

    The extremes are very extreme, don't you think?

    And then along comes redietz who after being fully exposed here as a seller of sports tips and vanishes returns with a prominent post attacking several forum members while he also (quietly) posts a report on a successful contest he was in for sports pickers.

    Bottom line: there's a lot of self serving posting going on here.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Quantum Theory of Video Poker
    By SteveChambers in forum Las Vegas
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 02-24-2016, 10:17 AM
  2. Unbalanced dice theory-- real or BS
    By whodat in forum Las Vegas
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 07-29-2015, 11:51 AM
  3. Theory and reality of dice influencing.
    By Alan Mendelson in forum Las Vegas
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 08-27-2012, 03:43 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •