Warning!! Westgate Las Vegas Players

[kewlJ]

In this day and era it is almost impossible to get back roomed in Las Vegas. I really don't understand how this happened. Almost every day I see someone getting escorted out of the Casino screaming and cursing security and even spitting on them and they can't touch them or do anything about it. To get back roomed or not see it coming means that the player was very sloppy. Even if they got surrounded they should be able to get to the door and off the property. Perhaps I am wrong about that but if that ever happened to me they would have to use force to get me to the back because I would refuse and just keep walking to the door. They can 86 me from the property but I am not going anywhere with anyone when asked and if they use force in this day and age without me using any force I would think they would have a legal problem down the road.

It's not yet "impossible" to get back roomed in Vegas, you know that. Every once in a while another story still emerges. But now it is usually a smaller casino with a couple old school uneducated security people, especially security chief. Think a Jerry's Nugget type casino. Most of the big corporate casinos have learned this lesson after 20 years. We have Bob Nersesian to thank for that and I guess some of the early players that brought those law suits, like a James Grosjean. At that time there was no precedent that there was any benefit to going through that legal process and exposing yourself. We all (current day AP's) benefited from that.

But while the battle is going well here in Vegas, other newer Jurisdictions are only beginning that learning process, as per the Justin Mills case and others. Still a long way to go. And unfortunately at the Indian Casinos the battle seems unwinnable. The playing field is very tilted towards illegal..."anything they want".

[redietz]

A word about timeshares: It's rarely worth it.

The "90 minute" presentation is always far longer, and you are harassed by salespeople who will not take no for an answer.

It is not uncommon for them to pull a "good cop, bad cop" routine on you, with one salesman acting nice, while the other stomps around angry, accusing you of being a greedy scammer who just went to the presentation to get the prize with no intention to even consider buying. The "bad" salesman will then yell in your face, act aggressive as if he's going to hit you (but never actually does), and scream that you're costing him commission, and that he's not going to be able to make rent.

If you can withstand all of this nonsense and are fine with doing all of that for a free room, then go ahead.

But for me, it's not close to worth it.

Not all timeshare presentations are this bad, but it's often impossible to know in advance which are the bad/good ones.

Also, often you will get bait-and-switched on the gift if you don't buy anything, and it's difficult to prove. However, the ones with the free hotel room are usually legit in that sense.

Yeah, my thinking is basically is that if it's an hour, I'll find it entertaining. The one I saw at the Hilton down by Circus-Circus, I was just upfront and said, "Look, I'm not buying on a first go-round, so let's not waste each other's time on this," and I was out of there in less than half an hour. I've seen one where the salesman basically called out a friend of mine as "not being a man" in front of his wife for resisting the pitch. They almost got into fisticuffs. If anybody on here had gone through the Westgate pitch and it wasn't terrible, I might do it.

Part of the reason is that the Westgate was my old stomping grounds, but I've stayed there just a couple of nights in the last five years. The rooms I've gotten have been wildly different -- one was very, very nice and renovated. Another looked like it hadn't been cleaned in 20 years. Another was great, but the heating system didn't work. Supposedly, they've renovated everything, so I would kind of like to see what the timeshare rooms look like, and even what the "normal" hotel rooms are like now.

I'll probably pass unless I get some longshot college hoops future deep into the tournament and have an excuse (and hours to kill) to stay there.

I did like staying at the Hilton timeshare down by Circus. Really nice place -- but the valet took friggin'forever.

[The Boz]

Timeshare presentations are easy money if you are confident in your abilities and have the time. They will realize quickly they are wasting their time if you can make it clear by asking the right questions. But obviously theee are many suckers out there who fall for It.

The problem is most of the ones in Vegas really don’t have much to offer. Shows tickets and a free dinner doesn’t do it for me anymore. Years ago you could get free play and even cash. Other cities like Key West still have some useful offers.

[Spock]

Timeshare presentations are easy money if you are confident in your abilities and have the time. They will realize quickly they are wasting their time if you can make it clear by asking the right questions.

Would you mean questions like "Is it true that I can buy this exact same timeshare on Ebay for less than 10% of what you are selling it for?"

[monet]

Maxpen... You see... these guys turned this thread into a Timeshare thread... nothing to worry about here.

[MaxPen]

Maxpen... You see... these guys turned this thread into a Timeshare thread... nothing to worry about here.

Timeshares are great AP opportunities. I encourage everyone to partake. Just tell them you are there for the free shit and understand that you are obligated to listen for 1.5 hours. Then pull up a resale of the one they are selling for free to pennies on the dollar. Start talking real loud, so other tables can hear you, asking if they can beat that quoted price for the same thing. Wife and I were out the door collecting our free shit on the Golden Nugget one in 33 minutes flat. 3 minutes after the tour ended.

[monet]

Timeshares are great AP opportunities. I encourage everyone to partake. Just tell them you are there for the free shit and understand that you are obligated to listen for 1.5 hours. Then pull up a resale of the one they are selling for free to pennies on the dollar. Start talking real loud, so other tables can hear you, asking if they can beat that quoted price for the same thing. Wife and I were out the door collecting our free shit on the Golden Nugget one in 33 minutes flat. 3 minutes after the tour ended.

This is why I have a hard time meeting players like yourself and others. You guys are just so far ahead of me I have no chance of catching up. This is the second time I have seen you give up great information on how to con your way into free items or if not con at the very least exploit weakness in the cracks of the system. The other gem you gave up was how to beat a car dealership on WoV. Now, for a guy who dropped out in the 10/11th grade like myself, how could I ever keep up? I am fairly certain you could, that is if you wanted to, get to know me well enough that I would just hand you over all my information. You would have all my credit card numbers, you would know where I hide large sums of cash, how I rat hole other sums of cash, other properties I own through family names... it is just endless. I have to be very careful getting to know sharper players such as yourself. I am not even talking about being sharp in the Casino World, which I am sure you are far ahead of me as well. I have read recently that you don't even bother unless the play is worth 100-150 per hour and you only have to work about 20-25 hours per week. You also have a steady part time gig that earns the same amount, most likely for some cover.

I guess my real point is that a rube such as myself really has nothing to offer players like you. I can only have the benefit of learning. I suppose the only thing I do have to offer is that I am the type of person who doesn't hesitate and I am able to keep a level head in situations where most people panic. I also have no problem screwing over corporations to help the credit trolls or pan handlers along with their Life of Riley.

In closing... you are one of the few members on WoV I always respected and admired but feared.

[mickeycrimm]

monet, can you describe what "being sloppy with multiple cards" means?

I know what you mean by multiple cards (using players club cards that are not your own), but what do you mean by "sloppy"?

Running off free play from two different cards back to back on the same machine is sloppy.

[MaxPen]

[QUOTE=monet;59533]

This is why I have a hard time meeting players like yourself and others. You guys are just so far ahead of me I have no chance of catching up. This is the second time I have seen you give up great information on how to con your way into free items or if not con at the very least exploit weakness in the cracks of the system. The other gem you gave up was how to beat a car dealership on WoV. Now, for a guy who dropped out in the 10/11th grade like myself, how could I ever keep up? I am fairly certain you could, that is if you wanted to, get to know me well enough that I would just hand you over all my information. You would have all my credit card numbers, you would know where I hide large sums of cash, how I rat hole other sums of cash, other properties I own through family names... it is just endless. I have to be very careful getting to know sharper players such as yourself. I am not even talking about being sharp in the Casino World, which I am sure you are far ahead of me as well. I have read recently that you don't even bother unless the play is worth 100-150 per hour and you only have to work about 20-25 hours per week. You also have a steady part time gig that earns the same amount, most likely for some cover.

I guess my real point is that a rube such as myself really has nothing to offer players like you. I can only have the benefit of learning. I suppose the only thing I do have to offer is that I am the type of person who doesn't hesitate and I am able to keep a level head in situations where most people panic. I also have no problem screwing over corporations to help the credit trolls or pan handlers along with their Life of Riley.

In closing... you are one of the few members on WoV I always respected and admired but feared.

Not sure why you are being so hard on yourself. I already know you possess enough knowledge regarding AP to make six figures with less than full time effort. If you are not, it is because of execution and not education. I waste very little time in my executions as I do not drink or put any effort into comp generation. I have no interest in trying to swindle another individual. Thanks for the kind words. I think...LOL

[MisterV]

Actually, I thought he was being sarcastic.

Whatever, in the end we're all just a bunch of atoms ready to be reconstituted into something new.

[mickeycrimm]

Timeshares are great AP opportunities. I encourage everyone to partake. Just tell them you are there for the free shit and understand that you are obligated to listen for 1.5 hours. Then pull up a resale of the one they are selling for free to pennies on the dollar. Start talking real loud, so other tables can hear you, asking if they can beat that quoted price for the same thing. Wife and I were out the door collecting our free shit on the Golden Nugget one in 33 minutes flat. 3 minutes after the tour ended.

This is why I have a hard time meeting players like yourself and others. You guys are just so far ahead of me I have no chance of catching up. This is the second time I have seen you give up great information on how to con your way into free items or if not con at the very least exploit weakness in the cracks of the system. The other gem you gave up was how to beat a car dealership on WoV. Now, for a guy who dropped out in the 10/11th grade like myself, how could I ever keep up? I am fairly certain you could, that is if you wanted to, get to know me well enough that I would just hand you over all my information. You would have all my credit card numbers, you would know where I hide large sums of cash, how I rat hole other sums of cash, other properties I own through family names... it is just endless. I have to be very careful getting to know sharper players such as yourself. I am not even talking about being sharp in the Casino World, which I am sure you are far ahead of me as well. I have read recently that you don't even bother unless the play is worth 100-150 per hour and you only have to work about 20-25 hours per week. You also have a steady part time gig that earns the same amount, most likely for some cover.

I guess my real point is that a rube such as myself really has nothing to offer players like you. I can only have the benefit of learning. I suppose the only thing I do have to offer is that I am the type of person who doesn't hesitate and I am able to keep a level head in situations where most people panic. I also have no problem screwing over corporations to help the credit trolls or pan handlers along with their Life of Riley.

In closing... you are one of the few members on WoV I always respected and admired but feared.

Could someone post a link of Maxpen telling how to beat card dealerships. I think I want to learn how to do that.

[monet]

Not sure why you are being so hard on yourself. I already know you possess enough knowledge regarding AP to make six figures with less than full time effort. If you are not, it is because of execution and not education. I waste very little time in my executions as I do not drink or put any effort into comp generation. I have no interest in trying to swindle another individual. Thanks for the kind words. I think...LOL

I wasn't being hard on myself at all. My post was very truthful and accurate. I believe that you have read all of my posts on WoV and here for the time being to be able to see when I am being serious compared to when I am being sarcastic. I am pretty straight forward for the most part. Most of the time, I am being serious, especially when I type out longer posts. The sarcastic ones usually are short quips and I usually am pretty snide about it. The other style of posts are usually when I am being defense or outright belligerent. I have many of those against ZenKing when I first started to interact with him because I was more raw to forums and I was reacting emotionally instead of actually using my brain. However, even with him, I typed out some useful information to get him started. Now with the Wiz, his needles were far more clever and I took a direct approach with him.

The truth about me is what my elementary teachers posted on my report cards about me back from 1980-84. It appears that I would get B's or C's with the number 3 next to them. When you would look down at the number key it would state something like this student is not using his full potential. Low ambition, I suppose, which has carried over for 35 years after those remarks. One could easily say that about my current life. When I first had over 100k in cash I honestly do not understand how people go broke with this amount or more. I find it very difficult for anyone to need this amount, even in our current state of affairs where the dollar isn't worth very much. Even with my splurging and selfish purchases, that do not help anyone or anything besides my own lusts or desires, it is still difficult to plow through this amount or more without recklessness.

I was not implying that you would swindle me or others. My statement about you was that it could be done with ease if that is something you wanted to do. In my circle or line of work that is something to respect or even admire. One problem is that internet life is never the same as real life interactions. I think most would agree with that statement. I know many of the Recreational Gamblers or Anti-Advantage Players believe that most everything told on the line is fabrication and that most AP's are not telling the truth or hiding it in some way.

Actually, I thought he was being sarcastic.

Whatever, in the end we're all just a bunch of atoms ready to be reconstituted into something new.

I was not being sarcastic in that post about MP. If you are trying to say that it won't be long before we are all in the grave with your atom remark I couldn't agree more. The end is closer than one thinks.

[monet]

Could someone post a link of Maxpen telling how to beat card dealerships. I think I want to learn how to do that.

It is buried pretty good. I searched around but was unable to pull it up. It might be in the D Day Thread but I am unsure. I will try to locate it when I have more time.

[Bill Yung]

Whatever, in the end we're all just a bunch of atoms ready to be reconstituted into something new.

Not in order to make something that is entirely new. Atoms are "bits" of memory, as are transplanted organs.

http://www.medicaldaily.com/can-orga...rms-yes-247498

[tableplay]

Not sure why you are being so hard on yourself. I already know you possess enough knowledge regarding AP to make six figures with less than full time effort. If you are not, it is because of execution and not education. I waste very little time in my executions as I do not drink or put any effort into comp generation. I have no interest in trying to swindle another individual. Thanks for the kind words. I think...LOL

I wasn't being hard on myself at all. My post was very truthful and accurate. I believe that you have read all of my posts on WoV and here for the time being to be able to see when I am being serious compared to when I am being sarcastic. I am pretty straight forward for the most part. Most of the time, I am being serious, especially when I type out longer posts. The sarcastic ones usually are short quips and I usually am pretty snide about it. The other style of posts are usually when I am being defense or outright belligerent. I have many of those against ZenKing when I first started to interact with him because I was more raw to forums and I was reacting emotionally instead of actually using my brain. However, even with him, I typed out some useful information to get him started. Now with the Wiz, his needles were far more clever and I took a direct approach with him.

The truth about me is what my elementary teachers posted on my report cards about me back from 1980-84. It appears that I would get B's or C's with the number 3 next to them. When you would look down at the number key it would state something like this student is not using his full potential. Low ambition, I suppose, which has carried over for 35 years after those remarks. One could easily say that about my current life. When I first had over 100k in cash I honestly do not understand how people go broke with this amount or more. I find it very difficult for anyone to need this amount, even in our current state of affairs where the dollar isn't worth very much. Even with my splurging and selfish purchases, that do not help anyone or anything besides my own lusts or desires, it is still difficult to plow through this amount or more without recklessness.

I was not implying that you would swindle me or others. My statement about you was that it could be done with ease if that is something you wanted to do. In my circle or line of work that is something to respect or even admire. One problem is that internet life is never the same as real life interactions. I think most would agree with that statement. I know many of the Recreational Gamblers or Anti-Advantage Players believe that most everything told on the line is fabrication and that most AP's are not telling the truth or hiding it in some way.

Actually, I thought he was being sarcastic.

Whatever, in the end we're all just a bunch of atoms ready to be reconstituted into something new.

I was not being sarcastic in that post about MP. If you are trying to say that it won't be long before we are all in the grave with your atom remark I couldn't agree more. The end is closer than one thinks.

My Kindergarten teacher wanted to flunk me because I answered "water" (sarcastically) to the question "how do buildings grow ?". I also have wondered how someone could blow 100K in a lifetime. Maybe someone on the forum knows this besides us.

[monet]

Resurrecting this old thread because I finally went inside the Westgate after a few year lay off because of Heat.
They changed things around a bit.
Still have decent promotions.
Not sure what the mail is like.
Probably not 3k a month anymore.
Anyways, the only thing I noticed was they moved all the machines around like every Casino does.
I'm pretty sure it is just to keep the crew busy to earn their wage.
I ran into two reel machines that are around 93k and 98k.
Very High for this game from my understanding.
I remember seeing one of the machines in the 70s after getting hit around 97/98 before.
Not sure what the reset is or if it has a backup.
Seems High for this game.
I didn't bring my phone with me as I left it in the car so no pictures.
The game has 4 reels.
It's a bar and triple seven game with multipliers/respin on the last reel.
The Progressive Hits when you make 3 Triple Sevens with the 9x multiplier.
It's Fucking Hard enough to get 3 Double Sevens with air on the last reel let alone Triples.
I did see a guy have it locked up once with Triple Sevens and the 3x though.
The game is probably like the Reel Machine at the Cal that hit a couple years ago.
That machine was 75 cents a spin and locked at 99,999.99 and supposedly a positive.
But it could take you a month or longer of constant spinning.
Sort of like when the Wheel Of Fortune was at 11 Million.
Sure, its a positive but can you live long enough to light it up?
I found a youtube video of the same game but a different version of it.
Same principle only that the multipliers are different as this game in the Casino is 3x, 6x, and 9x.
Just thought I'd mention it if anyone has information on the drop.
I wouldn't doubt that MickeyCrimm has some knowledge on the subject.
The variance feels brutal compared to any 3 dollar a spin seven game I have every played.
I am around a 2500 dollar lifetime loser on the game.

[Ozzy]

I played that machine a bunch of times there were 2 side by side 100k each 75c spin. I got the triple 7s once ever, the odds of hitting triple 7 with x 9 has got to be million to 1. I played them, when there was nothing else and I needed to get some coin in, for one reason or another. Had there been just 1 instead of 2, I wouldn't have bothered at all. The game itself had very low variance(I know 75c) and it probably was set around 95%-97%

[redietz]

For Ozzy and monet,

When Westgate changed ownership again and changed up their players' cards last time, they zeroed out my sports account, which I did not appreciate. The sports accounts before that switch were separate from the slot/vp/table games accounts. I lost just a hundred or so in comps, but I'm a stickler for that stuff, so was not happy. It accrued at maybe a buck for every $400.

Last time I was there, a year ago, the vp had been seriously downgraded -- the staple good games (including decent deuces wild) by the sports book had been removed. I have no clue, obviously, about the slots. These changes took place with the slot club change. They had kept my slot points intact, so still have maybe $200 in comps on the regular slot card. I do not know how long that will last without my having played for a year.

My understanding is that the sport comps and slot/vp/table games comps have been combined under the new card. I made just one sports bet last time there, a small ($200) XFL future, which I guess I need to send in for a refund, now that I think about it. I honestly don't remember if I had my card swiped for it or not. It would have meant just fifty cents in comps at best. Don't recall; I assume I did.

All of this was one year ago, so not sure of changes in the interim.