Palms Station A.Y.C.E.

[monet]

I suppose I can let you all sweat my NFL action since the game just started... I bet 3850 to win 3500 on the Vikings -3... The game is starting now so I'm gonna go watch... if William Yung thinks I am phony or BSing about this bet I will post the picture of the tickets later.

[Bill Yung]

Somehow I doubt Mr. Yung has a PhD. Just a guess from someone who hangs with people who do.

Guessers are losers.

I'll try to restrict posts to world affairs and research regarding the illusory nature of volition. It may not belong on a vegascasinotalk board, but Mr. Yung may approve.

Why not? There are all manner of subject categories on this forum. Not feeling up to it? Yeah, it's easier to make silly with those friends of yours.

[monet]

Guessers are losers.

One of the most truthful statements you ever posted and I read all of your posts this afternoon trying to understand your point of view and trying to get to the heart of the reason you are a part of this Vegas Casino Talk Board. I noticed that you are highly critical when you retort to something you do not agree with. I was disappointed that you did not even give me a needle about my Non-AP play losing $3850.00. The Sports Book has been beating me for my whole life and I have never had a problem admitting that fact. Honestly though 38-7... where was your advice about how the Eagles would crush today? I did notice that the 3 point line never changed today so they must of had equal action at all times on both sides.

Perhaps I missed it but in your 242 posts I never read one that gave up any type of gambling advice or information. If you don't mind sharing, what is your story? If not your story just the reason you are part of gambling forums will suffice. Do you reside in Las Vegas? I guess your highly educated and very ethical so I was just curious what it is that you do and what your interest is on gambling forums. I noticed you have followed BJ Forums for many years so I am guessing your into BJ in some way or another? I was also disappointed that you didn't offer any information on the illusory nature of volition which I actually found interesting.

Why not? There are all manner of subject categories on this forum. Not feeling up to it? Yeah, it's easier to make silly with those friends of yours.

The truth about this "friends" statement is odd. For me I have only met two people off of a gambling forum and that was because I wanted to see what ZenKing was all about and I had some interest in meeting AxelWolf as well and I met them and shot some stick with them at a local pool hall. It turned out that ZenKing and I are basically into different type of plays and didn't have much common ground. I actually knew who AxelWolf was after meeting him and basically we run in different circles as well. Not that we couldn't work together in the future but it was clear we do our own things. I am not unwilling to make friends off of the internet, heck... I am very serious about getting into some sort of "illegal" (as you call it) team of any sort but I am lazy these days to go about it compared to years past. I am pretty comfortable in life now and honestly never have been that ambitious but that doesn't mean I wouldn't be a good team member or willing to do what was necessary and I am not the type of person that would defecate in his pants as you claimed.

[mickeycrimm]

There are all manner of subject categories on this forum. Not feeling up to it? Yeah, it's easier to make silly with those friends of yours.

Bill why are you harrassing everyone? What's the point? I personally like reading of the experiences and exploits of other AP's. Not that I intend to copy cat them. I have my own agenda. But your harassing these new members is uncalled for. It only serves to stifle posting here. Is your intent to destroy the forum? If you don't like AP talk then find another forum.

[Bill Yung]

The guy has thousands of posts here, trots out the same lines about how educated he and his friends are, in thinly veiled sarcasm. If he hasn't already written at length about an academic interest in the appropriate category(s), then it's fair to ask which other plausible explanation than laziness or sarcasm? Surely he has thoughts of something he's working on at this very moment? Here's an idea. Look up how to fool a lie detector test, and then generalize that to fooling a casino or two into thinking that your card counter spread isn't that of a card counter.

We may all read of the exploits of AP's. Have our own agendas, too. But learning involves difficult questions and answers. So far, lately, I have asked a few things, and let the other guy answer, and left it at that. As the atmosphere has become so toxic in recent weeks fuelled by AP angst. For one thing, we can't suggest that or allow the actually new members on gambling forums to infer they may freely solicit and engage in purely illegal activities such as dealer collusion in casinos. Really irresponsible.

In general, harassment type issues, by definition, fall into the aggressive and long-term spectrum of activity. It just seems that whatever I say, you immediately characterize as severe in nature. The way of the designated AP forums when the questions and answers become tough? For another thing, and strictly off hand, I would not try to grow any type forum by forcing off the one guy who kept it going for so long, and attracted so many new members and readers. Boggles the mind.

[monet]

The guy has thousands of posts here, trots out the same lines about how educated he and his friends are, in thinly veiled sarcasm. If he hasn't already written at length about an academic interest in the appropriate category(s), then it's fair to ask which other plausible explanation than laziness or sarcasm? Surely he has thoughts of something he's working on at this very moment? Here's an idea. Look up how to fool a lie detector test, and then generalize that to fooling a casino or two into thinking that your card counter spread isn't that of a card counter.

We may all read of the exploits of AP's. Have our own agendas, too. But learning involves difficult questions and answers. So far, lately, I have asked a few things, and let the other guy answer, and left it at that. As the atmosphere has become so toxic in recent weeks fuelled by AP angst. For one thing, we can't suggest that or allow the actually new members on gambling forums to infer they may freely solicit and engage in purely illegal activities such as dealer collusion in casinos. Really irresponsible.

In general, harassment type issues, by definition, fall into the aggressive and long-term spectrum of activity. It just seems that whatever I say, you immediately characterize as severe in nature. The way of the designated AP forums when the questions and answers become tough? For another thing, and strictly off hand, I would not try to grow any type forum by forcing off the one guy who kept it going for so long, and attracted so many new members and readers. Boggles the mind.

I am pretty sure that anyone who has anything to do with Casinos knows that cheating or illegal activity is a large part of it and it is a large part on both sides of the fence. If that is a taboo subject on this forum I am willing and happy to never address it again. However, I do believe members who have read my posts for the last 2 years know that I have never had a problem talking about cheating or illegal activity in and out of the Casino with or without dealers. I have freely admitted to fixing the box as a poker dealer. I have admitted that for years I would skim poker tournaments. I have admitted to directly stealing large amounts of tournament chips at the WSOP and selling them to players. I have freely admitted to leaving Casinos and playing Video Poker while on the clock and coming back later clocking out and getting paid for it year after year. I have also admitted that I have in my lifetime directly put my hand inside hoppers and deflected coins stealing from Casinos and even as a dealer directly stole chips out of the box. I don't live in a fairy tale land and I don't mind sharing the exploits or asking others if I can get in on some sort of a crew. However, like I have said just a minute ago, I can let it go and never discuss it again and respect the rules of the forum if that subject is not allowed to be discussed. One only has to read the paper or search online and you will find dealers and other employees getting caught all the time stealing or cheating. It isn't BS.

[MisterV]

It is surprising that you would admit to it.

I enjoy reading sagas of such shenanigans, so please feel free to post whatever details you are comfortable with.

A good story is worth reading.

[monet]

It is surprising that you would admit to it.

I enjoy reading sagas of such shenanigans, so please feel free to post whatever details you are comfortable with.

A good story is worth reading.

I think I have posted enough stories on WoV and I am sure you have read them? I mean what else can I tell you? One thing is for sure... if I ever get boxed in they will never take me alive.

Edit: Although one time when I was younger (mid 20s) I got stopped by the cops and decided to run. I ran around some houses and into the woods. This was in the middle of winter where we had a good foot or two of snow on the ground. I had one copper chasing me only and the other cops couldn't even come close to finding us. This cop chased me for a solid mile into the woods. I was on top of a small hill looking down thinking that I got away. Needless to say this super cop was down below looking for me trying to follow the tracks. I was out of shape and had enough and called down to him saying ok ok I give up you got me. So he put the cuffs on me and we started to slowly walk back trying to coordinate with his other cop buddies. We all met up but I was out of breath. I couldn't breathe. I told these guys ok you got me let me rest for a minute or two here I can't walk or breathe. They agreed and we all had a good laugh. When I got in the cruiser they asked me why I ran. I told them because I wanted to see what would happen and heck it is just plain fun. They knew my father and that he had recently passed away and figured out that I was going through some emotional distress. I told them they are going to be disappointed when they get back and run me through the computer. You guys did all this work for someone with a clean record and I will be out in no time. This was true and the case was dismissed.

There... you got a story of my life for some of your amusement... enjoy and cheers mate!

Edit: What the heck... here is another small one for you junkies.

I was homeless and sleeping in a certain area in a sleeping bag. One morning the cops rolled in and woke me up and started to ask questions. They wanted to know why I had over 10k on me in cash and I told them that I won it playing poker. Next they wanted to know why I didn't just go up the street and get a motel room and I told them it is cheaper to sleep here in the grass and I go to the YMCA every day to shower and shave and take a swim and steam. They asked me some other questions and I told them that I had mental problems. They asked me next what my middle initial on my license stood for and I told them I couldn't remember because of the mental problems. They didn't like that and chicken winged me getting ready to arrest me and I yelled out my middle name a few times real loud. They let me go and wrote me a ticket. Fun Times!

[mcap]

As I understand it AP’s are extremely careful not to engage in any gaming activity that would be considered illegal, and would classify those who do as cheats first and foremost who also know legitimate advantages, and would not consider such a player to be an AP or someone respectable.

[monet]

As I understand it AP’s are extremely careful not to engage in any gaming activity that would be considered illegal, and would classify those who do as cheats first and foremost who also know legitimate advantages, and would not consider such a player to be an AP or someone respectable.

Sounds like good cover. It is certainly one of the most untrue statements I have read on gambling forums but I can understand APs sticking to that story. It sounds to me like your listening to those two on GWAE and believing them and enjoying how they tell the whole world about upcoming promotions and how not to pull your card. I also read on WoV how all the APs said they could never go into a Casino again and play if they wanted to, that gambling doesn't matter one way or the other to them, that they could live with or without it and I don't believe that BS either. Once your in this lifestyle you usually don't give it up unless forced to.

[redietz]

The guy has thousands of posts here, trots out the same lines about how educated he and his friends are, in thinly veiled sarcasm. If he hasn't already written at length about an academic interest in the appropriate category(s), then it's fair to ask which other plausible explanation than laziness or sarcasm? Surely he has thoughts of something he's working on at this very moment? Here's an idea. Look up how to fool a lie detector test, and then generalize that to fooling a casino or two into thinking that your card counter spread isn't that of a card counter.

We may all read of the exploits of AP's. Have our own agendas, too. But learning involves difficult questions and answers. So far, lately, I have asked a few things, and let the other guy answer, and left it at that. As the atmosphere has become so toxic in recent weeks fuelled by AP angst. For one thing, we can't suggest that or allow the actually new members on gambling forums to infer they may freely solicit and engage in purely illegal activities such as dealer collusion in casinos. Really irresponsible.

In general, harassment type issues, by definition, fall into the aggressive and long-term spectrum of activity. It just seems that whatever I say, you immediately characterize as severe in nature. The way of the designated AP forums when the questions and answers become tough? For another thing, and strictly off hand, I would not try to grow any type forum by forcing off the one guy who kept it going for so long, and attracted so many new members and readers. Boggles the mind.

You are incorrect, sir. I never said I was educated. Check out those many posts and find one.

I was trained as a simple journalist. I simply said I doubt you have a PhD. One of the plagues of boards is the handful of pseudointellectuals who show up having read the latest Discover magazine, a zen book, and having lost their collective asses to casinos, decide that if someone of their bright, successful ilk is losing to casinos, surely the APs must be bullshitting. There have been half a dozen here who fit that profile.

Mr. Mendelson did some good things. He also promoted a guy with a horrendous song-and-dance that was completely at odds with all math concepts. Mr. Mendelson had his own math theories that would have gotten him an F in any probability class. Was that doing anyone who gambles a real service?

I don't know. If people like to lose, then yes. And make no mistake about it -- many people have no issue with losing. It is, after all, recreation and fun.

[LarryS]

And there lies the rub between the 2 sides.

APs find their game, and grind it. Its work. They describe it as a daily grind. Its a grind and also the source of their food and shelter. So there is also a certain amount of stress involved and pressure to succeed,\.

And then Me, NrV, maybe others come along and say we walk up to the craps table for the "fun" of it. All our bills are payed by our weekly paycheck. If the casino changes their comp structure...we dont flinch. We may not like the new structure but wtf, no biggie. We are not in it for "the grind" for " the paycheck of winning". We like our daily job, and use gambling as one of many diversions.And THAT is counter to everything the APs stand for.

And then there is a third group....that dan talked about....the people that have regular jobs and are miserable in them. They grind it out every day and wish they could make a living "playing games". So they deny that its possible or if it is possible they are jealous of people who CAN AP for profit...a livable profit.

For the last few years I am able to do sports betting for a yearly profit. But not even close to a livable profit. But I dont begrudge the folks that can do it for a living wage.I know they are out there. I also know its fragile and I can go the next couple of years at a loss. So for me its all about the action, the fun, and my regular pay checks took care of all the bills and savings. And that worked out well. I am retired now and my main house is payed off in 9 months, and I have a retirement home in NV waiting for me. I could never have gotten to this position if I didnt have a steady job. I am not good enough at gambling. So it remains a fun part of my life.
And that is the fork in the road with APs.

[regnis]

I agree with a lot of what Larry said above. I have fallen into all the categories that he mentions. I played a lot of craps for fun, and didn't really care win or lose, although obviously you would rather win. I disliked my profession and converted my hobby of CRAPS to my profession. It does take the joy out of it to a great extent as you have to be concerned more about profit and it loses a lot of the fun that it previously provided.

I was questioned on another thread relating to dice control (and I don't want to argue that here) why I subsequently gave up craps if it was so profitable. As Larry mentioned, it's a grind. Also, travel, smoke, health, bans, and mostly, the bouncy tables. But I did have a profession to go back to as well, and I did so at a time that I could maximize profitability (i.e--my wealthy clients were dying and I handle estates and trusts). Still don't get a lot of enjoyment out of it, but I do like the checks and I only devote 15-20 hours a week to it allowing me to play horses full time as well.

Oddly, I lost my love for craps and rarely play anymore.

So I don't deny or begrudge the AP's in any way, even if I question a few things. I am a believer and have in the past been one. No jealousy here.

[tableplay]

It is surprising that you would admit to it.

I enjoy reading sagas of such shenanigans, so please feel free to post whatever details you are comfortable with.

A good story is worth reading.

I think I have posted enough stories on WoV and I am sure you have read them? I mean what else can I tell you? One thing is for sure... if I ever get boxed in they will never take me alive.

Edit: Although one time when I was younger (mid 20s) I got stopped by the cops and decided to run. I ran around some houses and into the woods. This was in the middle of winter where we had a good foot or two of snow on the ground. I had one copper chasing me only and the other cops couldn't even come close to finding us. This cop chased me for a solid mile into the woods. I was on top of a small hill looking down thinking that I got away. Needless to say this super cop was down below looking for me trying to follow the tracks. I was out of shape and had enough and called down to him saying ok ok I give up you got me. So he put the cuffs on me and we started to slowly walk back trying to coordinate with his other cop buddies. We all met up but I was out of breath. I couldn't breathe. I told these guys ok you got me let me rest for a minute or two here I can't walk or breathe. They agreed and we all had a good laugh. When I got in the cruiser they asked me why I ran. I told them because I wanted to see what would happen and heck it is just plain fun. They knew my father and that he had recently passed away and figured out that I was going through some emotional distress. I told them they are going to be disappointed when they get back and run me through the computer. You guys did all this work for someone with a clean record and I will be out in no time. This was true and the case was dismissed.

There... you got a story of my life for some of your amusement... enjoy and cheers mate!

Edit: What the heck... here is another small one for you junkies.

I was homeless and sleeping in a certain area in a sleeping bag. One morning the cops rolled in and woke me up and started to ask questions. They wanted to know why I had over 10k on me in cash and I told them that I won it playing poker. Next they wanted to know why I didn't just go up the street and get a motel room and I told them it is cheaper to sleep here in the grass and I go to the YMCA every day to shower and shave and take a swim and steam. They asked me some other questions and I told them that I had mental problems. They asked me next what my middle initial on my license stood for and I told them I couldn't remember because of the mental problems. They didn't like that and chicken winged me getting ready to arrest me and I yelled out my middle name a few times real loud. They let me go and wrote me a ticket. Fun Times!

Good ones Monet. And now I tell the 2nd hand story of Royal Flush Ralph. A friend of mine who passed away in 2006 had a friend nick-named Royal Flush Ralph. Royal Flush Ralph decided it would be a good idea to tase video poker machines through his large overcoat. The results were always interesting and occasionally extremely pleasant. In order to stay out of prison, Royal Flush Ralph had to tell the FBI the specifics.

[monet]

Good ones Monet. And now I tell the 2nd hand story of Royal Flush Ralph. A friend of mine who passed away in 2006 had a friend nick-named Royal Flush Ralph. Royal Flush Ralph decided it would be a good idea to tase video poker machines through his large overcoat. The results were always interesting and occasionally extremely pleasant. In order to stay out of prison, Royal Flush Ralph had to tell the FBI the specifics.

Thanks for the story. My dogs went nuts outside and dug a huge hole while I wasn't looking. I was laughing thinking of your story the whole time I was cleaning up. I don't see the harm in the story and I know a few of them with devices but I didn't think you could tase a machine. Of course we all know you can use an EMP but as your story clearly shows you most likely will be dealing with authorities. I myself play most things straight but that doesn't mean if I find some low risk high reward or low risk low reward move in the Casino that I wouldn't be all over it. I have found many glitches over the years and have abused them without detection but I am not immune to getting no mailed which one Casino has no mailed me but that isn't bad for over 20 years of gaming. Above all else unless the score is so big it is always a good idea IMO to not get 86'd or No Mailed. The Casino that No Mailed me cost me more than I made. I made 30k right before they cut me but in the long run it cost me about 20k per year. It is always bad to get No Mailed or 86'd IMO.

[tableplay]

Good ones Monet. And now I tell the 2nd hand story of Royal Flush Ralph. A friend of mine who passed away in 2006 had a friend nick-named Royal Flush Ralph. Royal Flush Ralph decided it would be a good idea to tase video poker machines through his large overcoat. The results were always interesting and occasionally extremely pleasant. In order to stay out of prison, Royal Flush Ralph had to tell the FBI the specifics.

Thanks for the story. My dogs went nuts outside and dug a huge hole while I wasn't looking. I was laughing thinking of your story the whole time I was cleaning up. I don't see the harm in the story and I know a few of them with devices but I didn't think you could tase a machine. Of course we all know you can use an EMP but as your story clearly shows you most likely will be dealing with authorities. I myself play most things straight but that doesn't mean if I find some low risk high reward or low risk low reward move in the Casino that I wouldn't be all over it. I have found many glitches over the years and have abused them without detection but I am not immune to getting no mailed which one Casino has no mailed me but that isn't bad for over 20 years of gaming. Above all else unless the score is so big it is always a good idea IMO to not get 86'd or No Mailed. The Casino that No Mailed me cost me more than I made. I made 30k right before they cut me but in the long run it cost me about 20k per year. It is always bad to get No Mailed or 86'd IMO.

Yes - it's even worse here in Reno because there are a much smaller number of casinos to get 86'ed from compared to Vegas, so it's best to play it straight IMHO. I'm guessing EMP would have unintended consequences like several machines in the vicinity going dark, in addition to the target machine (as opposed to a funky power surge with funky results), depending on the intensity. I'll have to learn what happens from braver (and less moral) souls than I or not learn it at all.

[monet]

It is surprising that you would admit to it.

I enjoy reading sagas of such shenanigans, so please feel free to post whatever details you are comfortable with.

A good story is worth reading.

Here is another true but short story of something that happened in my life. I figure I would tell it since I seen this forum has a pro or two in Reno. Reno is fun and a nice change of pace from Vegas and years ago I used to go up there. Especially when they had better games and promotions.

I am with my long time running partner/friend... heck to me we have always been as tight as brothers and even though we haven't talked in two years I believe we could work it out. Sometimes families fight for decades not talking to one another. Anyways, he is the one who showed me how to deflect coins at the bar machines and how not to use your finger. He had a good method of using a coin so that you wouldn't get banged up and it worked pretty good once you got the feel for it. So we are up there drinking, gambling, stealing... you know... doing the good ol' boy thing. We always made sure to keep sessions small in hopes of going undetected. Something like shearing a sheep instead of skinning it. We have several thousand dollars and of course this guy is a dice junkie. Think Archie or TJ without the constant hustler mentality asking everyone for a 300 dollar loan. I have played dice but for the most part I just don't have the stomach for it so I drank JW Blue and watched. He runs it up over 5 figures. We cash out and the party keeps going moving onto the street to the next property. On our way, his girlfriend finds us and comes along for the walk. They have a nice explosive argument in the middle of the street about money like every degenerate couple in the world. He says something about, go F yourself and something about you think I give a sheet about money??? Next he takes out a very large stack of hundos, has to be close to 10 grand and just throws them up in the air into the wind fluttering all over the street and proceeds to walk to the next Casino as his girlfriend and I pick up as many as we can. We make it to the next watering hole and it seems all is forgiven as we continue to gamble, steal and drink our way into oblivion.

[mickeycrimm]

The biggest edges I ever got at video poker in Nevada were at Reno/Tahoe.