Mamas, don't let your babies grow up to be homeless

[MisterV]

Killer on the roam.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-...213-story.html

[kewlJ]

I would think this brings a smile to your face MrV, since you seem to despise the homeless and mentally ill. Your position seems to be that you want them locked away somewhere, so you don't have to see them. I would think you see little difference in "locked away" and exterminated.

And by the way, locking away the mentally ill, has been done. That was the norm for a hundred years until Ronald Reagan reversed it in the 1980's.

[kewlJ]

I have to question the numbers in that story too. Las Vegas homeless population of 6490? I believe it to be much higher than that. Besides the homeless corridor on North Las Vegas Blvd, heading up towards Jerry's Nugget, which includes several shelters, there are homeless sleeping on the streets and behind building all over Las Vegas. Maryland parkway from downtown to the airport. The entire stretch of Boulder Highway. All over Vegas, even some of the so called better area, you will encounter homeless sleeping behind gas stations and strip malls and various community parks. Plus hundreds living in the storm drain system.

And those numbers don't even include the huge transient population....people sometimes in groups, sometimes families with children bouncing around the various weekly type Siegle Suite and Budget Suites type places. The real homeless number in Las Vegas is much, much larger than 6490.

[MaxPen]

I have to question the numbers in that story too. Las Vegas homeless population of 6490? I believe it to be much higher than that. Besides the homeless corridor on North Las Vegas Blvd, heading up towards Jerry's Nugget, which includes several shelters, there are homeless sleeping on the streets and behind building all over Las Vegas. Maryland parkway from downtown to the airport. The entire stretch of Boulder Highway. All over Vegas, even some of the so called better area, you will encounter homeless sleeping behind gas stations and strip malls and various community parks. Plus hundreds living in the storm drain system.

And those numbers don't even include the huge transient population....people sometimes in groups, sometimes families with children bouncing around the various weekly type Siegle Suite and Budget Suites type places. The real homeless number in Las Vegas is much, much larger than 6490.

That is true. It is closer to 30,000.

[LarryS]

its in the best interest for all towns and cities to publicly low ball the homeless numbers. Its better to do that when trying to attract the influx of new tax paying citizens.

and really how can you send someone out there to count with accuracy, Since they(homeless) move around, you can end up counting the same person 3-4 times

and people talk about regan being the cause of the mentally ill on the streets. Well 16 years of clinton and obama didnt reverse the regan years did they. 16 years of opportunity to tell regan he was all wrong. And not a peep.

[kewlJ]

its in the best interest for all towns and cities to publicly low ball the homeless numbers. Its better to do that when trying to attract the influx of new tax paying citizens.

and really how can you send someone out there to count with accuracy, Since they(homeless) move around, you can end up counting the same person 3-4 times

and people talk about regan being the cause of the mentally ill on the streets. Well 16 years of clinton and obama didnt reverse the regan years did they. 16 years of opportunity to tell regan he was all wrong. And not a peep.

Ok, first...can we get the man's name right? He was President of the United States. Ronald Reagan.

What Reagan did, both as Governor of California and as President was cut money to fund the mental hospitals. Cutting money is a lot easier than coming up with new funds as Clinton, Obama or even any republican president who wanted to recognize the Reagan policy failed, would need to do. I mean there is a budget and there never is enough money for everything, so it is easier to cut than find new money. And it is particularly easy to cut from something like homelessness and/or mental illness that don't have strong lobby groups. They are low man on the totem pole.

And BTW, I am not advocating for more money to open up mental institutions. That too has been tried and didn't work well. All I am saying is what Reagan came up with, which is placing them back into the community hasn't worked either. I don't know what the answer is.

Concerning the homeless head count: I was involved in such a count 10 or 11 years ago in Philadelphia. The group was the Philadelphia Coalition for Homeless. Twice a year volunteers fanned out to count the homeless. We headed out about 9pm, when the homeless should be bedded down for the night and were out until dawn. This minimized the double counting of people that were moving around. Most were bedded down for the night.

Even so, an accurate count is very difficult. Every city has the well known homeless areas, but there are homeless that try to stay out of view, in abandoned buildings, in automobiles, the drain / tunnel people here in Vegas, in Philly, bedding down on the banks of the Schuylkill river in Fairmount Park, which is a distant from the road and walkways. Despite best intentions, I am sure every head count in every city, undercounts the actual homeless population.

[kewlJ]

That is true. It is closer to 30,000.

I am just curious as to where you came up with this number Maxpen? Not saying it is high or low or right or wrong (I have no idea), just wondering where it came from?

Personally, it seems to me Vegas has a huge homeless population. I mean Vegas isn't a large city, but I would think the homeless population rivals some much larger cities. (Not L.A. or NYC).

Maybe it is because my daily travels takes me to places populated by the homeless...casinos, including downtown and the strip. And it isn't just the people sitting on the ground with a sign "need money for beer". Sitting in a sportsbook, or at machines, or even at the buffet, you can pick out the homeless. Even the ones that are a little better off and still trying to care for themselves. The give-away is always the backpack or bag they are carrying containing clothing and belongings. Easily distinguishable from tourists carrying a similar suitcase or bag.

[LarryS]

life isnt easy. So what. Jobs arent easy. That is no excuse for not solving a problem verses continually blaming someone else.
Every single president since reagan has had the opportunity to rectify or even try to rectify the problem. Its like blaming a bad economy today on Hoovers great depression.

There are so many things that need to be fixed in this country, that if politicians dont get re-elected..they cant point to one issue that they failed on...was it homeless, was it economy, was it military.

Maybe MrV who has a good job and life may vote someone out because of their stance on the homeless, maybe someone without a job will vote someone out for economic reasons, maybe a gay person will vote someone out based on human right views of the candidate. Collectively they all come together to vote someone out of office.

but in the end the new person elected tries to tackle the economy, and crime..since it effect the most people

[quahaug]

Institutionalizing people ended because it is unconstitutional. Fourth amendment. Nothing to do with money.

[MisterV]

From what little I know about it, my understanding is that our current model for mental health treatment would work provided people stayed on their meds and followed up with scheduled medical / psychological care.

The homeless are off their meds and avoid seeing a dr. / mental health professional, so their demons come back to haunt them.

One possible solution would be to develop a time-release med for them, such that they need only take one pill or injection periodically, or perhaps have a sub-dermal patch implanted.

The trick would be to somehow induce them to follow up to renew the meds; maybe inject them with something that makes them feel very ill if their med level drops to a certain point, thus forcing them to see their care giver to make it stop?

Whatever, something needs to be done, the current situation is simply pathetic.

[quahaug]

It's not illegal in our great country to be nuts. For now anyway. Phew.

[LarryS]

There are a very few that comes in an injectable form that lasts a month. Then what? The side effects of these meds are what keeps people away. So nausea, lightheadedness, vision problems, erection problems, are possible with the drugs....thats the downside to being able to act and feel "sane". And then u have people who are irrational to begin with, so how do you explain to an irrational person to get their meds, and once they have their bottleof meds...how do they hold onto it on the mean streets.And do they remember if they took their meds.

Regular working sane people are hit ad miss when taking meds. Especially meds that need to be taken more than once a day. So getting someone that sleeps in an ally to locate their meds, and take them is as we can see from reality....an impossible expectation.

to put it in the way it was taught to me in pharmacology class
"if you take a prescription med that fucks with your brain......its impossible to have it fuck with the one area of the brain that you want....it will fuck with other areas that you dont want to be touched (hence the fucking side effects)."

[LarryS]

It's not illegal in our great country to be nuts. For now anyway. Phew.

and its not illegal to be an asshole either....as long as the assholes and "nuts" dont negatively effect the quality of my life.

its not the right of a person to be "nuts" that is being discussed. Its their negative effect o society.

Mayor Giuliani in NYC got rid of the beggers and "squeegee people"(who planted themselves at off ramps and washed car windshields whether u wanted it or not)..not because they were nuts, but because they were breaking laws.

[mickeycrimm]

It was sometime about 93 or 94. I was living in a hobo jungle somewhere between Main St. and the I-15. It was back behind, but not directly behind the Plaza. The brand new municipal building on Bonneville, just off Grand Central Parkway, was in good eyesight. Bill Clinton was the newly elected president. One morning about 6 AM the cops came in and rousted us out of our campsite. Clinton was in town and the cops told us that he would be visiting the new municipal building that morning. The town leaders didn't want Clinton to look out a window and see a homeless camp. The cops told us we could come back after Clinton cleared the area. LOL!

[mickeycrimm]

Okay, another sign worker story.

I was thumbing the I-15 road and holed up in Pocatello, Idaho for a few days. I found a good camp spot just off the freeway. A few blocks away was a Vonn's Supermarket to eat out of. I would go in and buy something to eat then sit on a bench outside eating then maybe smoke a few cigarettes before heading back to the camp. A sign worker showed up at the bench and left his gear while he got in a strategic spot to work the sign. Which said "Nam Vet. Anything Helps."

He would occasionally take a break on the bench and smoke a few cigarettes. He told me it wasn't a good idea to smoke while working the sign. People wonder how you can afford cigarettes if you are so broke. Over the next few days we talked when he took his breaks. He ran a circuit between Pocatello, Boise and Salt Lake City working signs. Not good to overwork one location he told me. The money slows down when people get used to seeing you. His goal was $1200 then he was going to take off to Wendover to gamble it up.

On the 3rd day I was on the bench when he walked over and said he hit his goal. He went to a pay phone and called a cab then came back over and grabbed a seat on the bench waiting for the cab. I asked him how he was going to get to Wendover. Greyhound, he said. His cab got there and that's the last I ever saw of him.

[quahaug]

It's not illegal in our great country to be nuts. For now anyway. Phew.

and its not illegal to be an asshole either....as long as the assholes and "nuts" dont negatively effect the quality of my life.

its not the right of a person to be "nuts" that is being discussed. Its their negative effect o society.

Mayor Giuliani in NYC got rid of the beggers and "squeegee people"(who planted themselves at off ramps and washed car windshields whether u wanted it or not)..not because they were nuts, but because they were breaking laws.

Correct, breaking laws is the point. You can't however place a person in a mental institution for wiping someones windshield or urinating in public. That would be the eighth amendment I believe.

[LarryS]

no but you can arrest them over and over till they get the message. Because they are breaking the law.

its funny, you can keep arresting them with longer and longer prison sentences in which case they get no psychological treatment...they are just housed in a cell. And that is ok.
But to put them in a mental institutionwhere they can get help, gets people crying "cruel and unusual " punishment.

[mickeycrimm]

And another sign worker story. I've told this one before so it is for the benefit of those that haven't seen it.

Backpack Phil and I were laying in a park in Santa Fe, New Mexico. It was Easter Sunday. We were just killing time because we were dead in the water for day labor until the next day. Across the street from the park was a Catholic Church in which the parking lot was loaded with cars. Church was in session for Easter.

Up the street a tramp came walking. He was typical tramp looking. Long hair and long beard, raggedly clothes. A big backpack on. He stopped at the driveway to the Church. He opened up his backpack and pulled out a sign. The Church let out and the people streamed out to their cars. He popped up his sign as they drove out of the parking lot. Phil and I marveled at the number of cars where someone handed him some money.

When the parking lot was empty he put his pack back on then turned around and seen us in the park. He walked over, took his backpack off, grabbed a seat on the grass. Then he emptied out his pockets of all the money and counted it up. The total was $194. He made all that money in a matter of a half hour. He looked at us and said "Where can I get some dope?" I pointed toward the Plaza. He put his pack back on and headed toward the Plaza.

"Phil" I said. "If we ever start working signs remind me to pick on Churches on Sundays."

[MisterV]

The priest didn't do his job correctly if the parishioners still had any spare change left after the collection basket was passed a few times.

I knew of a tweaker that decided to make a splash in the roadside beggar world.

He knew some other tweakers who had a badly crippled, obviously deformed little child, so he worked out a deal where he paid them to "rent" the little tyke to stand with him on the roadside while he begged.

Gosh, someone complained, the police arrived, and they all got in trouble for exploiting the kid.

Karma's a bitch.

[quahaug]

what's a tweaker?