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Thread: Question for slot AP's

  1. #1
    Are the new generation of machines as exploitable as the former generation(s)?
    What, Me Worry?

  2. #2
    Originally Posted by MisterV View Post
    Are the new generation of machines as exploitable as the former generation(s)?
    There are many exploitable machines. There are some new ones that offer great opportunities. I would say that 200-300 per day is reasonable for a machine hustler in today's world. The main problem, at least in Vegas, would be the sheer volume of competition.

  3. #3
    Originally Posted by MisterV View Post
    Are the new generation of machines as exploitable as the former generation(s)?
    I was around for the golden age vulturing which ran from the late nineties to the early 2000's. When the casinos had lots of IGT Visions, Oddyssey machines and Williams machines. It was great at the start but wound up a grind as more and more vultures develped. But then I pretty much only worked Nevada at the time.

    To me the money on the new exploitable games is far better than it was then. But I stay out of Nevada, that is, except for one little side trip I have planned. I'll see what I find there.

    There is one new game I dominate everywhere I go. I don't collect stats on a game forever. But I do collect enough stats to know where I'm at in the game. I find the sweet spot somewhere above breakeven but lower than the other hustlers are willing to play it. I take a 5% edge and put up with the variance while the other hustlers won't play anything below a 10% edge. They don't even know they are at a !0% edge. They are just guessing they have an advantage. I can tell by the numbers they play where they are at. But because they won't play lower I get all the plays and run 10X the wager at 5% than they do at 10%.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  4. #4
    I will ask the question more specifically which MrV may or may not have asked about in his general question

    There seems to be more and more what I call carnival slots, they are more recently very bright, well lit, nowadays maybe 9 feet tall. Many themes, Elvira, big bang theory, Lord of the rings, new age Buffalo machines, batman(old tv show), Sex in the City, ..alot of bells and whistles,...alot of big screen bonus opportunties that lets people have fun,,,,but pays shit from what I can see when watching others.

    to me these are "new age"///i am not sure if MrV was referencing these or what specific "new age" slots he was referring

  5. #5
    Originally Posted by LarryS View Post
    I will ask the question more specifically which MrV may or may not have asked about in his general question

    There seems to be more and more what I call carnival slots, they are more recently very bright, well lit, nowadays maybe 9 feet tall. Many themes, Elvira, big bang theory, Lord of the rings, new age Buffalo machines, batman(old tv show), Sex in the City, ..alot of bells and whistles,...alot of big screen bonus opportunties that lets people have fun,,,,but pays shit from what I can see when watching others.

    to me these are "new age"///i am not sure if MrV was referencing these or what specific "new age" slots he was referring
    The games you named are about 90% return and there is nothing in them that can be exploited by a knowledgeable player.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  6. #6
    For new age slots just think of a movie or TV show. Titanic, Breaking Bad, Sons of Anarchy, Ellen (as in Ellen Degeneres), The Simpsons, The Wizard of Oz, Lord of the Rings, The Hangover, Ghostbusters, Willy Wonka, etc.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  7. #7
    yup, i lump them ins as well..i have seen them all...eye candy....like super models........, but you arent getting anywhere with them

  8. #8
    A version of LOR and SITC were exploitable.

    With the exception of progressives, bonus banking, accumulating, must hit, most slots are and never were exploitable themselves.

    All slots have the potential of being exploited with casino promotions and mail.

    It may not be as good as it used to be, but it's not even as close to as bad as some people think/claim, it's just different. For example: back in the day, there was no such thing as free play. Nowadays, almost all casinos offer free play.

    I haven't really gotten into the new machine sniping game, so I cant tell you how good it is. You can ask 20 different people and they will all have a different answer.

    I can't imagine its as good as it was back in the 90's but I could be wrong. Not to mention there was nowhere near the amount of hustlers like there is nowadays.

  9. #9
    Don't mean to derail but I had been thinking that as the economy gets better are the street entertainers downtown, water sales people and assorted hustlers moving to greener pastures? I would think the legitimate entertainer types would be able to get back to regular work.
    Take off that stupid mask you big baby.

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by quahaug View Post
    Don't mean to derail but I had been thinking that as the economy gets better are the street entertainers downtown, water sales people and assorted hustlers moving to greener pastures? I would think the legitimate entertainer types would be able to get back to regular work.
    Are you serious?? Those people are never leaving that scene unless the law changes back. That doorway was opened years ago and it isn't closing any time soon. It's pretty amazing what is allowed right in front of the Casinos. I myself thought about grifting out there as well but I'm just too lazy and old and no ambition.

  11. #11
    Originally Posted by monet View Post
    I myself thought about grifting out there as well but I'm just too lazy and old and no ambition.
    This is a golden opportunity for some young black man with a passing resemblance to the title character in "Black Panther" to go busking in costume, either downtown or mid-strip.
    Last edited by MisterV; 02-19-2018 at 10:56 AM.
    What, Me Worry?

  12. #12
    Originally Posted by monet View Post
    Originally Posted by quahaug View Post
    Don't mean to derail but I had been thinking that as the economy gets better are the street entertainers downtown, water sales people and assorted hustlers moving to greener pastures? I would think the legitimate entertainer types would be able to get back to regular work.
    Are you serious?? Those people are never leaving that scene unless the law changes back. That doorway was opened years ago and it isn't closing any time soon. It's pretty amazing what is allowed right in front of the Casinos. I myself thought about grifting out there as well but I'm just too lazy and old and no ambition.
    Is the money and lifestyle on the street that good compared to working a regular gig? I haven't been out there since the Obama depression got into full swing but my impression was the street entertainers got hit pretty hard and lost opportunities whether corporate or public (in casinos) jobs. I'm not talking about beggars and such.
    Take off that stupid mask you big baby.

  13. #13
    Originally Posted by quahaug View Post
    Are you serious?? Those people are never leaving that scene unless the law changes back. That doorway was opened years ago and it isn't closing any time soon. It's pretty amazing what is allowed right in front of the Casinos. I myself thought about grifting out there as well but I'm just too lazy and old and no ambition.
    I would say it is like anything else in life. It is what you make of it and how ambitious you are. From what I can tell those guys make around 60 to 120 a day and drink or gamble it away. I see them at the VP bar usually after they call it quits. I was actually thinking of printing up maps and strategy charts of what and where to play and selling them for 5 to 20 dollars a pop to help out the tourists get a better gamble. My point is I don't see a decline in how many people are on the street doing what they do. It seems to me they just keep coming which is fine... everyone needs a job. I know a few years ago the city made them go through a lottery system to get a specific circle and time slot but not sure if that is still in effect or working. I remember right before that it was getting crowded where you would have 20 characters dressed up in a long line!? That isn't even counting all the others up and down the Fremont Experience. Lately I just rush by the whole thing moving from Casino to Casino not noticing anymore but I will tell you they get crazy around 2 or 3 am with very loud rap music on the street with lots of profanity. That is amazing that its allowed like that. I am guessing they would of all ended up in the desert if they tried to do that in the 60's, 70s, or 80s... in the 90s metro would of ran them off.

  14. #14
    monet or any other AP

    In the 70s there was a guy that for many years sold a "system" for buying real estate with no money down, and reselling. He had hour long info-mercials and it went on for about 15 years....very successful for him. It seems selling his info was more profitable than doing the hard grind himself.

    after reading your insights.....and the grind and bankroll needed to obtain the desired result......why do you think there hasnt been an AP in slots that advertised seminars made his money as the teacher than as the grind it out AP. It could be national or just local promotion.

    Some magician made alot of money from FOX exposing the secrets of popular magic trics.....on episode after episode of those shows...even though there is a "code of secrecy".

    So even if there is a "code" among APs........not ONE would sell out?

  15. #15
    Originally Posted by LarryS View Post
    monet or any other AP

    In the 70s there was a guy that for many years sold a "system" for buying real estate with no money down, and reselling. He had hour long info-mercials and it went on for about 15 years....very successful for him. It seems selling his info was more profitable than doing the hard grind himself.

    after reading your insights.....and the grind and bankroll needed to obtain the desired result......why do you think there hasnt been an AP in slots that advertised seminars made his money as the teacher than as the grind it out AP. It could be national or just local promotion.

    Some magician made alot of money from FOX exposing the secrets of popular magic trics.....on episode after episode of those shows...even though there is a "code of secrecy".

    So even if there is a "code" among APs........not ONE would sell out?
    Eliot Jacobson already tried that. An AP has nothing to sell as the value of his information is diluted with each and every use. Every time a leak is identified it gets plugged. I used to play the Royal 20 side bet until it disappeared due to being outed.
    Most system sellers are selling Unexploitable information to the naive. The more participants the less pie there is to go around to each one.

  16. #16
    yes but there are also plays that would hit no matter what. Like the minni jackpot on the XYZ machine will hit before it gets to 125 dollars. The general public doesnt know this. But joe blow on vacation will eat up that info, and go on a scavenger hunt to find machines

  17. #17
    Originally Posted by LarryS View Post
    yes but there are also plays that would hit no matter what. Like the minni jackpot on the XYZ machine will hit before it gets to 125 dollars. The general public doesnt know this. But joe blow on vacation will eat up that info, and go on a scavenger hunt to find machines
    As soon as people become aware of certain opportunities they start fighting with each other and then they will try to exploit others that are not in the know. The casinos would just pull the machines like Steve Wynn did with the Bellagio when the hustlers started fighting with each other and started driving customers off as soon as they made good setups.

  18. #18
    but the AP seminar guy doesnt care about the consequences...he wants to make as much as he can from the 299.00 tourist special seminar at the holiday inn.

    the magician that gave away all the secrets to FOX didnt care about consequences. He didnt care if it would effect the attendence of traditional magic shows.

    you are giving me valid consequences though

  19. #19
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    For new age slots just think of a movie or TV show. Titanic, Breaking Bad, Sons of Anarchy, Ellen (as in Ellen Degeneres), The Simpsons, The Wizard of Oz, Lord of the Rings, The Hangover, Ghostbusters, Willy Wonka, etc.
    There was a Deal or No Deal game a couple years ago that was exploitable

  20. #20
    Times are good right now, in the right situations would say it's on par with the 90's or even a little better.

    There has been a nice surge of good games for the astute AP slot player in the last couple years.

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