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Thread: AP Tactics LV

  1. #1
    Here is an example of tactics that some AP crews go about business. You can read this post and make your own decisions and decide if you think this is proper conduct or improper conduct. I have heard members and I have read posts and had real world discussions with a leader of crews in Vegas who used to be very active on these gambling boards. This person will tell you it is a grey area because gaming doesn't consider it illegal. This person will also tell you how they believe in many shades of grey. Many people believe in drawing different lines or that we have many shades of grey in the gaming world or in life. I am of the mind set that it is either black or white. Things are either right or wrong and it does not matter about some technicality that they will justify their actions over another. In my opinion I, personally do not condone my actions which are obviously on the wrong or black side. I don't think anyone should be on the wrong side when we look at it from the text book.

    According to my records as Monet0412 on WoV I joined up on February 18, 2016. The reason I joined up was because I was hammering this promotion at Skyline that was the Chase The Royal Promotion and I was curious about the Math on another promotion they were running at the same time. This promotion was what they called a Bingo Card Promotion. Most machine players understand that this is usually a certain amount of video poker hands you have to cross off to complete the card and receive an award. This Bingo Card Promotion was for all the 4 of a kinds. So after you would complete all the 4 of a kinds you would 250 dollars and you could do this another time and get another 250 and on the last card you could get 500 dollars. Mind you I was playing 10/7 DB so anything on top of this game is gravy since it is full pay at 100.17% with perfect play and advanced strategy. Later down the road they added an extra card worth 1000 dollars bonus and the cards were color coded.

    I wanted to know what the math was on the cycle to complete all the quads. I had a ballpark figure in my mind and after a day or so of posting it was confirmed that it only took about 17,500 hands to complete this cycle on average. Romes was bashing me a little bit at first claiming that it was impossible and a lot of noise but was doing the math wrong. I didn't realize that at the time this forum had members on it for a long time and have had problems in the past with phonies or other problems. I am actually very new to forums that is why sometimes I have to ask questions or misunderstand that I am not conducting myself properly. This is my 3rd forum only. My first one was for a video game online and those guys didn't get into heated debates and all these problems we tend to have on these gambling forums so I didn't realize I was in the middle of the Lions Den at first with WoV. If you read this thread over there I claim that I can play at around 1100 hands per hour with no mistakes and WoN challenged me to a 5k bet but I didn't take him up on it and after we all found out that he is a Con Man I suppose it is a good thing that I didn't. Many people wanted to bet me on it but in my life I have always had problems with prop bets and I also am not looking to bet my fellow gamblers and win or lose money to or from them. I want to steal or beat the Casino out of the money they cheat people out of every day. I do not understand this Wizard and his crew gambling each other taking each others money in backgammon and poker games and such or even prop bets. I hear stories all the time how they are betting one another. This is not fun for me. I don't want to sit around the table with my crew and play poker with them. I would want to sit with my crew if I had a crew and cheat the suckers. That is just me.

    The Link is to that thread if you want to read it...

    https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gamb...d-cycle-bonus/

    On this play it wasn't well known just yet so I didn't want to tell everyone where it was so I was trying to be deceptive. Later some local pros showed up and the word got out a bit more but it wasn't terrible and Skyline honored the Promo for the whole month. They changed it around but for a month or two after they dropped the Royal but bumped up the Bingo Cards which still worked out to an easy winner for only having to play quarter VP.

    So after all that... if you stayed with this post this long we are getting to my example or question.

    This is what one husband and wife team was doing late at night at the bar...

    They would play a machine and move to another machine every 15 minutes or so. If they hit a quad they would claim it and have the guy punch the hole in the bingo card and sign and have the bartender sign. In the meantime the husband would move to another machine leaving the quad on the first machine. A few seconds later the Wife would swoop in and start playing that machine that had the quad on it. She would play a different game for a awhile and switch to the game with the 4 of a kind on it. She would flag down the bartender and claim that quad that was already claimed by the husband. They would leave these quads on the machines and keep claiming them as needed. So this happens all the times in the bars in LV. It used to happen more when the crews were hustling it and the bars were giving the dough away more so compared to today. Especially if they were giving you 25 dollars on the quads of the day. Some bars had 3 quads for the quad of the day. Also the gamblers bonus was crazy years and years ago and quarter players were making over 50 dollars an hour in bars, 7-11s, grocery stores and gas stations and other places.

    My point is or question is do you think this is unethical behavior? Would you have any problems taking advantage of a promotion like this? Are these people scum for doing this? It is well known that a crew on WoV has done things like this and consider it a grey matter. I consider it black and wrong. I have no problem doing such things though and I don't mind admitting it.
    Last edited by monet; 03-20-2018 at 03:14 AM.

  2. #2
    I would have a problem with it, not because I'm a moralfag, but because this fits the legal definition of fraud, and could potentially result in much worse consequences than being 86ed, such as being sent to pound-me-in-the-ass prison

  3. #3
    Originally Posted by monet View Post

    This is what one husband and wife team was doing late at night at the bar...

    They would play a machine and move to another machine every 15 minutes or so. If they hit a quad they would claim it and have the guy punch the hole in the bingo card and sign and have the bartender sign. In the meantime the husband would move to another machine leaving the quad on the first machine. A few seconds later the Wife would swoop in and start playing that machine that had the quad on it. She would play a different game for a awhile and switch to the game with the 4 of a kind on it. She would flag down the bartender and claim that quad that was already claimed by the husband. They would leave these quads on the machines and keep claiming them as needed. So this happens all the times in the bars in LV. It used to happen more when the crews were hustling it and the bars were giving the dough away more so compared to today. Especially if they were giving you 25 dollars on the quads of the day. Some bars had 3 quads for the quad of the day. Also the gamblers bonus was crazy years and years ago and quarter players were making over 50 dollars an hour in bars, 7-11s, grocery stores and gas stations and other places.

    My point is or question is do you think this is unethical behavior? Would you have any problems taking advantage of a promotion like this? Are these people scum for doing this? It is well known that a crew on WoV has done things like this and consider it a grey matter. I consider it black and wrong. I have no problem doing such things though and I don't mind admitting it.
    Lots to unravel here, Monet, good questions.

    The first thing that I want to say is that I think there is no right or wrong answer on some of these things, so it's just going to vary from person to person. It's a matter of opinion, after all.

    I guess my first question: Was it free play or actual cash? The casinos are often the ones who have it in their own terms that Free Play has no cash value. Is it even theoretically possible to commit any kind of theft on something that has no value?

    I'm not a lawyer, so I would LOVE MrV's opinion. Even if it is not his area, he would obviously be able to at least make a better guess than me. I would say that if you're talking about actual cash money, then you could make an argument for, "Theft by Deception."

    https://law.justia.com/codes/nevada/...s205-0832.html

    Obtains real, personal or intangible property or the services of another person by a material misrepresentation with intent to deprive that person of the property or services. As used in this paragraph, "material misrepresentation" means the use of any pretense, or the making of any promise, representation or statement of present, past or future fact which is fraudulent and which, when used or made, is instrumental in causing the wrongful control or transfer of property or services. The pretense may be verbal or it may be a physical act.
    Again, I'm not an attorney, much less a Gaming one, so I don't know. Better call Bob.

    I just think you could at least advance the argument because she's claiming hands that she didn't actually hit and profiting (in part) on those hands. It's also clearly preplanned, so there's your intent.

    So, you just have a question of whether it is illegal or not.

    ANYWAY:

    Look, I think that there are a few general schools of thought when it comes to AP tactics, and you have stated yours, so we'll start with that:

    1.) It's either black or white. Person doesn't care if it's black. (Monet)

    2.) It's either black or white. Illegal or not illegal. Anything goes if it is not illegal. (???)

    3.) There is black, there is white, there is gray. Black is illegal, white is legal AND does not violate any Terms & Conditions of the casino, gray is anything in between. Will do anything that is not black at all. (???)

    4.) There is black, there is white, there is gray. Same as above, except there are some ethical considerations in the gray area. (Myself, and I think, Axel, but you'd have to ask him)

    5.) Black, white, gray, stay in the white.

    Anyway, I believe in black, white and gray. My ethical considerations are that I don't want to cause any harm to another individual person, whether it be another AP, regular player or casino employee.

    Monet's Questions:

    Anyway, you talk only black and white. Let me pull out a few player's club cards, here.

    "This card may only be used by the person in whose name it has been issued."

    "Photo ID and this card must be presented to receive any club benefits"

    "...May only be used by the person whose name is on rthe card and must be returned upon request...Unauthorized use may lead to revocation of this card and its privileges."

    "Card is non-transferable."

    Okay, so is using a card not in your name, "Black?" Why? Because it violates the casino's terms? Who cares? I say it is either a crime or not a crime, so encourage anyone to research that for their individual gaming jurisdictions.

    Do you think this is unethical behavior? Yes, because it could have repercussions on the bartender for not doing his job properly. If the bartender is in the know and a pre-whatever arrangement took place, then the bartender is essentially helping to defraud the employer, in my view. I'm not sure whether or not any of it is illegal.

    Would you have problems taking advantage of a promotion like this? I wouldn't claim, or have someone else claim, 4OaKs that I or that person did not hit ourselves. My main concern would be the bartender could lose his job, even if he is just being lackadaisical. I don't know how seriously the bars take that stuff. I would play the promotion with the Quads I actually hit, of course.

    Are these people scum for doing this? Everyone is morally accountable unto themselves, so no. I can offer opinions, but who am I to judge someone else's moral/ethical set? I can just say what mine is.

  4. #4
    Originally Posted by pepe View Post
    I would have a problem with it, not because I'm a moralfag, but because this fits the legal definition of fraud, and could potentially result in much worse consequences than being 86ed, such as being sent to pound-me-in-the-ass prison
    You mean there aren't going to be any conjugal visits?

  5. #5
    Originally Posted by Mission146 View Post
    Originally Posted by pepe View Post
    I would have a problem with it, not because I'm a moralfag, but because this fits the legal definition of fraud, and could potentially result in much worse consequences than being 86ed, such as being sent to pound-me-in-the-ass prison
    You mean there aren't going to be any conjugal visits?
    Not the kind you want

  6. #6
    (First, good volley by Pepe.)

    I hope my daily post restriction is gone by now, I think it might be.

    If anyone is curious, the reason that I don't feel compelled to adhere to the Terms of the casinos (as long as I am not risking harming anyone else) is because they don't honor their own Terms some of the time.

    I do want to say that I am generally a pro-casino guy, so I'm not one of these AP's who say, "We need to get all the money to teach the evil casino industry a lesson!"

    I don't even think that's true of most of the people who say that. I think they mostly basically just use it as a justification for what they do. I really don't see how the whole thing equates and remains consistent when the fact is: If the ploppies didn't lose, then the AP's couldn't win, because the casino would make no money and therefore go out of business. A few people might generally believe themselves when they say that, though.

    Anyway, if the casinos send mailers that say, "Your Free Play is this, this and this," but then they, 'Kill,' your card because they don't like your coin-in levels, that's bullpoopy. (Have to watch my mouth, here.) I say that it is bullpoopy because (even though they retain the right to do so) the play levels that are needed to maintain the free play are NEVER clearly stated and 99.9% of the people working in there probably don't know how much is needed. Say what you want about online casinos, but they state their play requirements pretty clearly when they have a promotion.

    You also have other promotions that the casino decides to cancel or modify. Bait and switch. Again, they retain the right to do that, but that doesn't make it ethical. It doesn't mean you didn't get action based on your written promise that you are now not keeping, or that people didn't come in and use the card for something else, thinking the promotion would happen, and now that's going to go against ADT and negatively impact offers.

    So, I go to the players club and sign up and implicitly agree to only use my card. I reserve the right to withdraw my implicit agreement at anytime and to use other cards in the event that doing so can make me more money. Just like the casino reserves the right to withdraw promotions if the promise of the promotion will bring people in, but they believe the withdrawal will make them more money.

    It's gambling, very rarely does anyone ever have completely clean hands. Casinos included.

    If the casinos aren't going to keep their promises to the customer that were put in writing, why should the customers keep their promises to the casino that they may never have put in writing? (Been a bit since I signed up for a new card, I want to say 90% of the time, if not more, I've never been asked to sign anything). Even if the customers did promise in writing, who the heck cares?

  7. #7
    I suspect a prosecuting attorney would consider the conduct as both "cheating" and as "fraud."

    See the Nevada statutes on this subject: https://www.leg.state.nv.us/NRS/NRS-...l#NRS465Sec070

    I'm putting Bob's book in my Amazon shopping cart:https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/19...=ATVPDKIKX0DER, as I am not an expert in this area, and he is.
    What, Me Worry?

  8. #8
    This example of double-counting four of a kinds is obviously fraud. I have to think the couple or teams had a wink/wink sharing relationship with someone working at the place, or they would have been flagged pretty quickly.

    Now would I do it? When I ask myself this question honestly, I have to say I wouldn't do it now, but in my 20's, if a group of us thought of it, I would certainly have considered it. But here's what makes monet's question interesting. I would not have picked on Skyline with a promotion like this unless I thought Skyline was owned by one of the mega-companies. I would not have done this against an individual small standalone place, even though those are the ones with inferior security and all that. If, say, Harrah's had this promotion, I would have at least considered doing it. It makes no difference legally, and maybe not ethically, but my personal mores hold the mega-corporations responsible for lousy games, the degradation of video poker and lousy comps. So in my mind it's picking the pocket of thieves when vulnerabilities like this show up. Doesn't make it right, of course.

    Thanks for the question, monet.

    Now let me ask a variation of the old Dancer thing, where he didn't stay at a hotel, but went in and ate the free breakfast "for guests." If you're staying in a hotel without breakfast in a complex owned by a particular hotel company (Marriott, for example, with a Courtyard and Residence Inn next to each other), and one place has a free breakfast, but you're staying next door, is it a no-no to walk next door and eat the free breakfast? I thought this was an interesting question, because many people do this, and aren't particularly shy about it. I have no qualms about it.
    Last edited by redietz; 03-20-2018 at 09:55 AM.

  9. #9
    Hey, money, I just remembered an old punch card story. Now was this a bad thing to do?

    When the Gold Coast first started a slot club, you got a card punched for every $10 in quarters you bought in for to use at machines. When the card was full, you got a free meal. I wore a full length longrider coat with deep, deep pockets. Anyway, I played by the rules, so to speak, and would run $10 through once, then cash out, put the quarters in my pockets. Then go get another $10 in quarters. When my pockets were full, I'd go up to the room and dump the quarters, then return to the casino and keep doing it. I did play through everything once, but just the once. I did things surreptitiously because I thought they might veto me if they saw what I was doing.

    I don't remember exactly how many meals I accrued, but it was more than a dozen and may have reached the low 20's.

    Was this a bad thing to do? This broaches the question of "if it's legal, but you have a pretty good idea the casino will veto you if they see what you're doing, is it fair and right to take steps to limit what the casino can actually see you doing?"

    This calls into question the right to privacy in a casino. I don't feel any entity has the right to clear surveillance of me without my permission. Period. My entering a building owned by somebody else is not that permission.

  10. #10
    street justice as mission suggests is a doiwnfall to society.

    There have been retail stores that were sited by the consumer affairs benach of state regulation that had products that scanned higher at the register than the posted price. They get a fine. And if its a repeated problem they are made to institute some form of "item free" if scanned incorrectly program.

    So if a retail chain is nailed for this offense...can I go and shoplift? After all they cheated others, so why arent I morally allowed to go shoplift and fuck them like they intentionally or unintentionally fucked others.
    If my spouse cheats...Its just fine if I stay in the marriage and cheat as well.
    If a company has been found to have polluted the water supply..its ok for me to find a way duoe them out of product or money.

    I agree with monet there is no iddle ground. If there was...then every one would have their own definition of what is allowable light gray, vs unallowable dark gray. What kind of world is that.

    And its not always a legal issue. People can get fired for perfectly legal activity. As long as they arent fired for reason of race or sexual orientation or religion or a few protected disease states. Its legal to wear a pin that says "abortion is baby killing":....but if you do it in my store, and dont take it off when asked, you are immediately fired. Go find a lawter and knock yourself out in a losing case.
    And the thing is, I dont even have to ask to take off the pin...If i document customer complaints that is enough as long as I am consistent with other workers in similar cases.

    So the question is about right and wrong. And we all cross the line from right into wrong all the time. Some admit it, and some make excuses by talking about shades of gray nonsense.

    and that scam that was originally posted by OP ....that could easily be avoided by the casino if a strict rule was to make the recipient of the "punch card" spin in order to have the card returned to them by the verifyer Which makes me think that perhaps workers were helping out the perpetrators.

    mission suggests vigilante justice. Where someone identifies a "wrong" and imposed another "wrong" as a justification for enriching themselves....either financially or emotionally.

  11. #11
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post

    Now let me ask a variation of the old Dancer thing, where he didn't stay at a hotel, but went in and ate the free breakfast "for guests." If you're staying in a hotel without breakfast in a complex owned by a particular hotel company (Marriott, for example, with a Courtyard and Residence Inn next to each other), and one place has a free breakfast, but you're staying next door, is it a no-no to walk next door and eat the free breakfast? I thought this was an interesting question, because many people do this, and aren't particularly shy about it. I have no qualms about it.
    Being a former hotel manager at two properties, I feel like I am able to answer this question with some degree of authority.

    Most practically, I didn't really care whether you did it or not, on a personal level. I don't really have any means by which to facially memorize every single guest, (and these were relatively small hotels, sub-100 rooms) so I'm probably just going to assume you're staying there. If you come in and you do that and you look homeless, or something, our actual policy (and one of the ONLY nice things about the owner) was that we would feed anyone anything that we had there.

    Practically, but not directly related to me, the most that the majority of hotels would do is ask you to leave if they did not believe that you are a guest.

    Legally, but less practically, the hotel could make a claim of, "Theft of services," in either of the jurisdictions in which I was employed.

  12. #12
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    Hey, money, I just remembered an old punch card story. Now was this a bad thing to do?

    When the Gold Coast first started a slot club, you got a card punched for every $10 in quarters you bought in for to use at machines. When the card was full, you got a free meal. I wore a full length longrider coat with deep, deep pockets. Anyway, I played by the rules, so to speak, and would run $10 through once, then cash out, put the quarters in my pockets. Then go get another $10 in quarters. When my pockets were full, I'd go up to the room and dump the quarters, then return to the casino and keep doing it. I did play through everything once, but just the once. I did things surreptitiously because I thought they might veto me if they saw what I was doing.

    I don't remember exactly how many meals I accrued, but it was more than a dozen and may have reached the low 20's.

    Was this a bad thing to do? This broaches the question of "if it's legal, but you have a pretty good idea the casino will veto you if they see what you're doing, is it fair and right to take steps to limit what the casino can actually see you doing?"

    This calls into question the right to privacy in a casino. I don't feel any entity has the right to clear surveillance of me without my permission. Period. My entering a building owned by somebody else is not that permission.
    in thst case I dont see a problem. You didnt break the ruls that they laid out. The rules were not for "every 10 dollars lost".

    that reminds me of the early days of atlantic city. You could get a bus ticket for maybe 15 dollars round trip from 100 miles away where I lived.(I took the bus once but never again). And there was a deal with the bis company that the patrons would get 2 rolls of quarters, and a free buffet. So there were plenty of seniors who would take a day trip. Cash in their coupon for quarters and meal....and the women would sit ont the boardwalk and knit. It was a day out of the house....they were fed and made a profit of 5 dollars. Totally within the rules. This was before the technology of free play that has no cash value that can be loaded into a machine. Totally legal.

    Its like when a local supermarket that you never go to, has a great one time sale on tuna....and you go there and buy 20 cans....never intending to go back. You just take advantage of a loss leader sale. Many retailer have "loss leaders" where they actually lose money on a handful of products to lure people in to perhaps buy the other products that have a profit attached. Nothing wrong with just buying the items they lose money on.

  13. #13
    I think LarryS middle name is, "False equivocation."

    Shoplifting is a crime, always, all jurisdictions. Violating the Terms and Conditions of a Players Club (I believe) is not necessarily a crime, depending on what it is you are doing. The casino can kick you out, but they have the right to do that in most jurisdictions, anyway.

    I don't think shoplifting is morally acceptable, but there's no reason why a different person couldn't think that way. I don't know why a person's moral set has to inherently include each and every law. The heck does a law have to inherently do with personal moral set?

    Cheating on your spouse is either within or not within a person's moral set. Some spouses have an, "Open marriage," or develop one after cheating has occurred.

    Everyone does have their own moral set of what they personally feel is right or wrong to do. Some people abide by their morals and some don't. The kind of world that is would be the one we live in. Denial isn't going to do anything to change that.

    Yes, people can be terminated as long as the reasons for said termination do not violate any laws, or any contract, so what?

    The question is right and wrong, I agree with that much, but LarryS wants right and wrong to be absolute whereas I believe it is subjective. Philosophical difference. Doubt it can be resolved. Doubt he will talk me to his method of thinking or that I will talk him into mine.

    I agree that rule could be enforced by doing exactly what LarryS suggested they could do. Either that, or machine reset, (if that would work) only because I don't think the house has any legal right to FORCE a person to make a bet on a particular machine.

    I'm not suggesting vigilante justice or justice of any other kind.

  14. #14
    included in the rules the house could require a new hand be played..even if it was for only 25 cents...or the player doesnt get the card back.This way only one bingo playing customer can claim a 4 of a kind screen. Or like you said, the verifyer who punches the card has to wait for the person to play again or if the person leaves, they reset or call a tech to reset. Just because the casino failed to protect themselves against theives...doesnt me its ok to do.

    thats like knowing that a convenience store has fake security camers, so you fill your pockets with merchandise.

  15. #15
    LarryS,

    If it's in the Rules, I guess, but I would think you would need someone to sign something if you are going to literally force them to gamble on a certain machine. I don't see how the bet amount matters. There are any number of ways that the house can protect itself from double claiming. I could list several off of the top of my head, if you really want me to.

    The convenient store thing is definitely illegal. I agree that things either are or are not illegal, but legality and morality are two totally different things unless, "Always adhere to the law," is one of your morals. Anyway, I don't know that it is illegal to double claim the quad, but MisterV and Redietz seem to think so, and I am inclined to agree with both of them. I strongly agree after a brief glancing at the link on MrV's post, at least, as far as Nevada is concerned.

    Anyway, I think the double claiming is, "Wrong," or, "Unethical," whether or not it is illegal. In my personal view, whether or not something is illegal has nothing to do with, "Ethics," or, "Moral wrongness," but that's just me. My view of, "Morality," or, "Ethics," concerns what I personally do to other individual people. There are things that I could do that would violate the law but not my personal ethics, and there are things that I could do that would violate my ethics, but not the law.

  16. #16
    I am not talking about open marriages ..I am talking about unilateral decisions to literally or figuratively fuck someone or some entity.

    So casinos reverse their offers because the small print says they can. And because of the mission says its fine to fuck them by not following their rules. He can define a light gray area of rules to break. At least light gray in his mind. Everyone defines gray, lightgray, medium light gray, differently. So there is a sliding scale by which someone will fuck another person or entity. A different line to cross in the wild west.

    Thats reality and thats not going t change. Everyone rationalizes to suit their desire to do something. In their minf perhaps identifying something as light gray, when it is more than medium gray. But by declaration its what you want it to be. By declaration you can rationalize any act by unilaterally placng it on the scale of gray to suit your wishes.

    And thats how humans work. We do what we want, and if we want something enough then we compartmentalize it into a nice box of the right shade of gray. Sometimes its not just "want"//its "need" in order to pay rent or eat. At that point the size of the light gray box gets huge.Alot of actions can fit in that box.

    So I agree.Everyone is dirty..some more so than others based on their mindset of whats proper, and also based on where they are in their lives and how comfortable or happy they are financially.(I am not talking about psychotic people who will fuck you at any time of their lives). And happiness financially doesnt always have to do with being poor. There are well off people who will fuck you because they want to be even more well off.

    which brings us from how your were hammered at wov. You were hammered by people who have probably done dirtier things than unknowingly working with a conman. Or the crime of attending a lunch with a conman. You took the fall sothat all the dirty people can go back to their dirty dealings giving the public the sense the any possible shadiness at wov has been squashed. But that isnt the case.
    far from it.

    Heck shackleford knows that he has zero oversight of theonline casinos. Yet he gives a few of them a seal of approval. Now if the actor James Woods advertises for Bovada....big deal. He carries no weight in the gambling world. However id shackleford......identifying himself in the approvals as "the wizard of odds approved"..that carries weight in the industry. Yet he is not in a position to approve it...oversee it.

    So there is shadiness all around wov. Mission's alleged shadiness was nothing compared to whats really going on.

    yet they needed a purge

  17. #17
    I am too busy stealing today to answer all the questions in this thread. I am also tired of fighting the mob mentality and proving my points or opinions. Although, how can you call that a purge LarryS? That's not a purge. Someone went from green to blue. They lost no monetary positions and they lost no frienships that count. All those team members and the Wizard are still in good standing with the Mission. Nothing has changed and the hard questions to the scammed or leaders or Wizard have not been addressed. The owners of WoV haven't said word one about a con man conning members. BBB was the only one who said this basically... not our fault. Honest people can't get conned.

    I commend Dan Druff... he points out the two faced ways of the Wizard and WoV in his post on MCs WoV Thread on this very site. He quotes and bold face quotes how they approve but don't approve said gambling sites so they can make more dirty money from the fish. Dan Druff says he refuses to take that dirty money.

  18. #18
    Originally Posted by monet View Post
    Dan Druff says he refuses to take that dirty money.
    Is this an invitation to get up Dan's skirt?
    78255585899=317*13723*17989=(310+7)*[(13730-7)*(100*100+7979+10)]-->LOVE avatar@137_371_179_791, or 137_371_17[3^2]_7[3^2]1, 1=V-->Ace, low. 78255585899-->99858555287=(99858555288-1)=[-1+(72*2227)*(722777-100000)]={-1+(72*2227)*[(2000+700777+20000)-100000]}-->1_722_227_277_772_1. 7×8×2×5×5×5×8×5×8×9×9=362880000=(1000000000-6√97020000-100000)-->169_721. (7/8×2/5×5/5×8/5×8/9×9)={[(-.1+.9)]^2×(6+1)}-->1961=√4*2.24; (1/7×8/2×5/5×5/8×5/8×9/9)={1/[7×(-.2+1)^2]}-->1721=[(10*10/4)/(√4+110)].

  19. #19
    yes, I think it was a ceremnial purge to have people feel good about themselves. It makes the site look like they punish any hint of impropriety.
    Its a big show.

    meanwhile shackleford and the mods quiver knowing that they have sone some shit....possibly even with WON

    there is a poster cwazy that is constantly harping that WoN has grounds to sue the owners. For a few days....non stop. And the mods and others are engaging him...as if he is an impartial scholar looking out for the welfare of the owners of the board. How did they get so lucky to get this non lawyer with such good helpful legal info.

    I bet there are many folks holding their breath hoping someone doesnt show up saying that they were seen with WoN

    so its very mellow there since they got their punishable victim

    a "victim" in their minds

    to me he was just a dope who did a poor job of defending himself and he tripped over his own 2 feet.

    but the masses feel they caused the demotion.

    whatever

  20. #20
    Originally Posted by LarryS View Post
    Many retailer have "loss leaders" where they actually lose money on a handful of products to lure people in to perhaps buy the other products that have a profit attached. Nothing wrong with just buying the items they lose money on.
    Anecdotally and not of course based on my personal experience, I suspect that this type of con was adopted by men who'd been conned by their wives.

    By report, many women are quite generous with a prospective mate, willingly fellating her guy til his eyes roll backwards: a con in aid of one thing: hooking the poor bastard.

    Once the ring gets on the finger the good times dry up and the now-wife raises her true flag and forces him to salute.
    What, Me Worry?

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