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Thread: Harley Davidson Slot - Spin Bank

  1. #41
    I've chased only one mega. It was at 195 and came off quick at 199. That was early on and before I had figured the mega frequency at about 1200 because of how often the mega symbol was landing.

    I had put the mini frequency at 221, maxi 663, mega 1157. When the par sheet numbers came out showing 220, 675, 2553 I had been averaging mini 214, maxi 641, mega 2440. So my calculations were right on top of mini and maxi but I knew something was up with the mega before the par sheet numbers came out.

    I think Mission has the best explanation. If a bonus symbol doesn't come out on the first reel then the 5th reel is different. Or if a bonus symbol lands on the 1st reel but doesnt land on the 3rd reel the 5th reel is different.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  2. #42
    PS: I don't chase mega's except in very rare situations so I leave the 2.4% out of every play I calculate. But here is an example of a mega I would chase. I was going to try to buy this play but the dude on it couldn't speak a word of english. It was 200 level.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  3. #43
    A mega at 350 would certainly tempt me as well, assuming I had the time.

    The only time I use any of the mega meter is when I'm considering and either / or Maxi / Mega play. Even then I'm only using a fraction of the mega meter.

  4. #44
    Originally Posted by Prozema View Post
    A mega at 350 would certainly tempt me as well, assuming I had the time.

    The only time I use any of the mega meter is when I'm considering and either / or Maxi / Mega play. Even then I'm only using a fraction of the mega meter.
    I use 4% on a combination maxi/mega play.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  5. #45
    I'm using 3.7%. We are close.

  6. #46
    By chance, do you know anything about the Big 5 game the Twitter Peeps are playing? With the animals...

  7. #47
    Originally Posted by Prozema View Post
    I'm using 3.7%. We are close.
    I calculated mine like this.

    2553/675 means you will hit 3.78 maxi's per every mega. Maxi meter rate is 4.6%, mega 2.4%.

    3.78 X 4.6 = 17.388
    17.388 + 2.4% = 19.788
    19.788/4.88 = 4.055%
    Last edited by mickeycrimm; 08-14-2018 at 06:26 AM.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  8. #48
    Originally Posted by Prozema View Post
    By chance, do you know anything about the Big 5 game the Twitter Peeps are playing? With the animals...
    I know the game you are talking about, Big 5 Safari. I think I timed the bottom meter and it was slower than molasses so left the game alone. I've heard guys say you play it when all five meters are flaming. I think that is a crock. The meters start flaming at a certain point just like the harleys. Same with Three Kings. Now, you and I know that when a harley meter starts flaming it doesn't change the frequencies of hitting the freespins. The mini on a harley will start flaming an average of every 136 games (starts flaming at 15 freespins banked) and the frequency is 220. The rules screen says it starts flaming near the average number of spins it takes to hit it. Same thing on the Big 5 Safari. It's an IGT trick to get people to think its about to hit.

    Because of the slow meters I dont think the game ever goes positive. But I'll take another look at it. Do you happen to know where the meters reset at the lowest bet level?
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  9. #49
    I don't have access to big 5 safari in my fly over cow town so I've not done any work on the game to date. One of the Twitter folks said they have been playing it for months so I was guessing there was something there.

    I was heading to Vegas for a few nights later in the month and if I find it and figure anything out I'll let you know. 100% agree that flames are not a trigger with IGT.

    On HD, The biggest thing driving the difference on our mega / maxi meter is my 1.1% on the mega vs your 2.4%.

    I fully admit your # is probably better than mine. One of us is a professional and the other one has a hobby. Probably not very hard to figure out who is who! :-)

  10. #50
    Originally Posted by Prozema View Post
    I don't have access to big 5 safari in my fly over cow town so I've not done any work on the game to date. One of the Twitter folks said they have been playing it for months so I was guessing there was something there.

    I was heading to Vegas for a few nights later in the month and if I find it and figure anything out I'll let you know. 100% agree that flames are not a trigger with IGT.

    On HD, The biggest thing driving the difference on our mega / maxi meter is my 1.1% on the mega vs your 2.4%.

    I fully admit your # is probably better than mine. One of us is a professional and the other one has a hobby. Probably not very hard to figure out who is who! :-)
    You'll find the Big 5's around the GE's and OM's. Same line of machines.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  11. #51
    Originally Posted by Prozema View Post
    By chance, do you know anything about the Big 5 game the Twitter Peeps are playing? With the animals...
    I don't know anything about this game (and I realize the question wasn't directed at me), but the screenshot below might offer some insight since it suggests some spin-to-spin memory. Most likely it is just a straight progressive machine as Mickey implied and the player simply has to know when it turns positive (if it is even capable of this).
    Name:  big5_hint.jpg
Views: 1542
Size:  75.3 KB

  12. #52
    This thread shows what is capable here. And to those who argue against posting information, does anyone think IGT didn’t do the same math Mickey and others have done on these games before releasing them?

    These games wouldn’t be in the casinos if they weren’t making money off them. On the 351 Mega Mickey posted, how many Customers with little AP Knowledge thought it was a good play at 75? 100? 150? AP’s at 200? And maybe they broke even, lost a little, made a little. Either way the house won.

    Which is my point in that anything Mickey and anyone else put out there didn’t hurt anyone. But I do understand there is always things that should be kept to oneself if you find it and can exploit it.

    Plenty to discuss and keep it interesting without killing anyone’s livelihood.

  13. #53
    Originally Posted by The Boz View Post
    This thread shows what is capable here. And to those who argue against posting information, does anyone think IGT didn’t do the same math Mickey and others have done on these games before releasing them?

    These games wouldn’t be in the casinos if they weren’t making money off them. On the 351 Mega Mickey posted, how many Customers with little AP Knowledge thought it was a good play at 75? 100? 150? AP’s at 200? And maybe they broke even, lost a little, made a little. Either way the house won.

    Which is my point in that anything Mickey and anyone else put out there didn’t hurt anyone. But I do understand there is always things that should be kept to oneself if you find it and can exploit it.

    Plenty to discuss and keep it interesting without killing anyone’s livelihood.
    The harley's are everywhere across this country. I've been in at least 100 casinos in about 20 states in the last year. The harleys are in 90% of them. That tells me the game can be found in 90% of casinos from coast to coast.

    But buyer beware. Significant bankroll is required to fully exploit the game.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  14. #54
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by The Boz View Post
    This thread shows what is capable here. And to those who argue against posting information, does anyone think IGT didn’t do the same math Mickey and others have done on these games before releasing them?

    These games wouldn’t be in the casinos if they weren’t making money off them. On the 351 Mega Mickey posted, how many Customers with little AP Knowledge thought it was a good play at 75? 100? 150? AP’s at 200? And maybe they broke even, lost a little, made a little. Either way the house won.

    Which is my point in that anything Mickey and anyone else put out there didn’t hurt anyone. But I do understand there is always things that should be kept to oneself if you find it and can exploit it.

    Plenty to discuss and keep it interesting without killing anyone’s livelihood.
    The harley's are everywhere across this country. I've been in at least 100 casinos in about 20 states in the last year. The harleys are in 90% of them. That tells me the game can be found in 90% of casinos from coast to coast.

    But buyer beware. Significant bankroll is required to fully exploit the game.
    My point exactly. Not afraid to say I’ve made mistakes on them like others have “thinking” they were attractive without doing the total math. Which is why what you did is a service to others.

    The eternal forum debate, share too little and end up with Singers with unbelievable claims against any math, or tell too much and risk killing a play.

    It’s a deeper debate than Harley’s for sure.

  15. #55
    Originally Posted by The Boz View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by The Boz View Post
    This thread shows what is capable here. And to those who argue against posting information, does anyone think IGT didn’t do the same math Mickey and others have done on these games before releasing them?

    These games wouldn’t be in the casinos if they weren’t making money off them. On the 351 Mega Mickey posted, how many Customers with little AP Knowledge thought it was a good play at 75? 100? 150? AP’s at 200? And maybe they broke even, lost a little, made a little. Either way the house won.

    Which is my point in that anything Mickey and anyone else put out there didn’t hurt anyone. But I do understand there is always things that should be kept to oneself if you find it and can exploit it.

    Plenty to discuss and keep it interesting without killing anyone’s livelihood.
    The harley's are everywhere across this country. I've been in at least 100 casinos in about 20 states in the last year. The harleys are in 90% of them. That tells me the game can be found in 90% of casinos from coast to coast.

    But buyer beware. Significant bankroll is required to fully exploit the game.
    My point exactly. Not afraid to say I’ve made mistakes on them like others have “thinking” they were attractive without doing the total math. Which is why what you did is a service to others.

    The eternal forum debate, share too little and end up with Singers with unbelievable claims against any math, or tell too much and risk killing a play.

    It’s a deeper debate than Harley’s for sure.
    Any time in the last 20 years that I have seen a play go down or get killed it seems another one pops up around the corner.
    Even today an individual can still find plays. The trick is to lay low until another one pops up or play things that you can grind out.
    You may have to grind away for a month or two but when something lucrative comes along you are able to hammer it out.
    Many times I see guys run up large bankrolls but can't wait out the dry spells so they start Gambling and I mean Gambling!
    Next thing you know they are broke and asking for a loan.
    A few weeks later and some great play comes along and they can't get involved because they got busted.
    If they do get involved they have to play for a small percentage or hourly.
    Might as well just work a nine to five Job.
    Last edited by monet; 08-15-2018 at 05:53 PM.

  16. #56
    This is what a harley looks like when the meters are close to reset. The mega and mini are exactly on reset while the maxi is 4 above reset. Of course, an AP is not going to play these numbers.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  17. #57
    I calculate EV's right at the harley machines. I carry a pocket calculator and I have a calc on my phone. I have three decimal points I use.

    One mini freespin is worth 1.37 units. The frequency of winning the mini freespins is 220

    1.37/220 = .00623

    One maxi freespin is worth 2.6 units. The frequency of winning the maxi freespins is 675

    2.6/675 = .00385

    One mega freespin is worth 2.3 units. The frequency of winning the mega freespins is 2553

    2.3/2553 = .0009

    The regular game has a 64.2% payback. The mini meter rate is 7.47%. So on a play where I know I'm going to play until I hit the mini meter I have a base of 71.67%. The maxi and mega meters are not included in the calculation because most of the time I'm going to hit the mini first then take a walk because the game will be back in negative....and I will be leaving the maxi and mega buildup behind.

    In the screenshot we have a mega21maxi27mini41. I do this on my calc right at the machine.

    21 X .0009 = 1.89%
    27 X .00385 = 10.395%
    41 X .00623 = 25.543%
    Total = 37.828%

    37.828% + 71.67% =109.498%

    Nine and a half percent is good enough for me so the play is a go.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  18. #58
    This is Barney,

    Not that it really matters, but I never noticed progressive jackpot amount on any of the Harley slut machine devices I play. Is this common?


    Thank you very much

  19. #59
    Originally Posted by Barney View Post
    This is Barney,

    Not that it really matters, but I never noticed progressive jackpot amount on any of the Harley slut machine devices I play. Is this common?


    Thank you very much
    All the harley banks have a 10K wheel jackpot. I would guess about 30% of them are progressive, starting at 10K. Some banks have .5% meters while others have 1% meters. The highest number I've seen is 46k.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  20. #60
    I just seen something in that screenshot where the freespins meters are close to reset. Right in the middle it says "Bet max for best chance to win the jackpot in the wheel bonus." Never noticed that before. It was up at the exact time I took the picture. So that answers the question of whether a 40 level player has the same chance as a 400 level player.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

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