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Thread: Harley Davidson Slot - Spin Bank

  1. #121
    Originally Posted by mcap View Post
    Originally Posted by tableplay View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    It would be nice if there was something to Big 5 Safari because the action generated would get a lot of freeplay and comp. But I don't see the meter rates being fast enough to sometimes put the game in positive mode.
    About a week ago I found a $1.50 denom (unlinked) on this with a Bison of $93 and change and Rhino of $210 and change. I split the action 50/50 with a friend ($.75 per spin per person) and we hit the Rhino at $212 and change for a net profit of $60 per person after the drop and coin-in. Honestly we were just trying to chase the Bison, so, as far as I'm concerned, we got lucky with respect to the $80 initial investment ($40 per person).
    Not that it makes a difference, but that animal looks more like an ox than a buffalo/bison to me.
    Here is what "http://www.slots-777.com/Slot/game/big-5-safari" has to say on the matter Mcap:
    "Big 5 Safari is a 5-reel slot that offers players the chance to channel their inner safari and re-enact what they may have seen on the Discovery channel without actually having to get dirty! This great slot from the developers at Nektan is themed around a safari and play begins with a spin of the jeep’s wheels and play begins. In the same way as you would should you take a trip to the Serengeti players are on the hunt for the five biggest game animals, these being the lion, elephant, leopard, rhino and buffalo.The animals make up the higher wins increasing in value from buffalo through elephant, rhino, lion and finally leopard. Players that land three, four or five letter could be awarded with multipliers ranging from 10x up to a whopping 150x."
    What's important to me is that you and the other readers of my post know that it (the ox/buffalo/bison) refers to the least valuable and most frequently hit progressive of each denomination.

  2. #122
    That's one mystery solved. Nice work. :-)

  3. #123
    Eh I see that it says buffalo on the machine. Terrible graphic.

  4. #124
    What's important is what percentage of the action is going into the buffalo meter. That means it has to be tracked:

    1. Bet size
    2. Number of spins
    3. meter increase

    This will determine the meter speed.

    Oh, there's another important factor. Are the meters on one bet level independent of the meters on another bet level? In other words, does playing on one bet level push the meters on the other bet levels too? Some games are like that.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  5. #125
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    What's important is what percentage of the action is going into the buffalo meter. That means it has to be tracked:

    1. Bet size
    2. Number of spins
    3. meter increase

    This will determine the meter speed.

    Oh, there's another important factor. Are the meters on one bet level independent of the meters on another bet level? In other words, does playing on one bet level push the meters on the other bet levels too? Some games are like that.
    On the top left corner of the screen, there is a small icon of a pocket watch - if it is pressed (when not in attract mode), the values of the five animal progressives are shown for each of the five denominations. I will try and clock the Buffalo meter (as I do for must hit games) when I see people playing this (or if I take a another shot) and post it here (as well as try to check for bet level meter independence). Thanks Mickey.
    Cheers, tp.

  6. #126
    Originally Posted by Prozema View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by Prozema View Post
    I don't have access to big 5 safari in my fly over cow town so I've not done any work on the game to date. One of the Twitter folks said they have been playing it for months so I was guessing there was something there.

    I was heading to Vegas for a few nights later in the month and if I find it and figure anything out I'll let you know. 100% agree that flames are not a trigger with IGT.

    On HD, The biggest thing driving the difference on our mega / maxi meter is my 1.1% on the mega vs your 2.4%.

    I fully admit your # is probably better than mine. One of us is a professional and the other one has a hobby. Probably not very hard to figure out who is who! :-)
    You'll find the Big 5's around the GE's and OM's. Same line of machines.
    I found the reset values on big 5 safari... Thanks Twitter. Name:  
Views: 
Size:
    I just realized my screenshot cut a piece of the pic off. Here is a link. https://twitter.com/#!/x/status/1045141365649108992

  7. #127
    I would also track the drop in the BS5 game. For each session I would record the amount of the ticket at start. The amount of each meter I hit. And the amount of the ticket at cashout. This will tell me how much the return is discounting the meter hits out. So you can figure out what the average cost of a regular game spin is.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  8. #128
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    I would also track the drop in the BS5 game. For each session I would record the amount of the ticket at start. The amount of each meter I hit. And the amount of the ticket at cashout. This will tell me how much the return is discounting the meter hits out. So you can figure out what the average cost of a regular game spin is.
    Sounds good Mickey, I'll try and do this if I end up playing it.

  9. #129
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    What's important is what percentage of the action is going into the buffalo meter. That means it has to be tracked:

    1. Bet size
    2. Number of spins
    3. meter increase

    This will determine the meter speed.

    Oh, there's another important factor. Are the meters on one bet level independent of the meters on another bet level? In other words, does playing on one bet level push the meters on the other bet levels too? Some games are like that.
    I watched someone playing Big5 at $3.75 a spin. This moved the Buffalo meter 9 cents each spin (41.7 cents moves this denoms' Buffalo a penny, so a 2.4% Buffalo $3.75 denom meter). The sample size was around 20 spins, and, given the consistency of the movement, I would say that Big5 has a coin-in meter rather than coin-out meter. The other denominations' Buffalo progressives (as well as the other four animals of the other four progressives) were not visible, so I could not track them. To obtain the other metrics (Drop and other denoms' progressives movements) I will probably have to wait until I see a play (75 cents denom with Buffalo at $43 or higher or 150 cents with a friend or "friend"[random vulture that I might be cursorily acquainted with like the LID or Barney - in all future posts that is what I mean by "friend"] present and the meter at $86 or above) although it certainly would be possible to measure the drop at a particular denom if I am close enough to look at the starting bank roll in the machine, have a large enough sample size (recording the ending bank roll at the last spin of the sample), and, ideally, the person hits a progressive.
    Last edited by tableplay; 09-29-2018 at 03:26 AM.

  10. #130
    Originally Posted by tableplay View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    What's important is what percentage of the action is going into the buffalo meter. That means it has to be tracked:

    1. Bet size
    2. Number of spins
    3. meter increase

    This will determine the meter speed.

    Oh, there's another important factor. Are the meters on one bet level independent of the meters on another bet level? In other words, does playing on one bet level push the meters on the other bet levels too? Some games are like that.
    I watched someone playing Big5 at $3.75 a spin. This moved the Buffalo meter 9 cents each spin (41.7 cents moves this denoms' Buffalo a penny, so a 2.4% Buffalo $3.75 denom meter). The sample size was around 20 spins, and, given the consistency of the movement, I would say that Big5 has a coin-in meter rather than coin-out meter. The other denominations' Buffalo progressives (as well as the other four animals of the other four progressives) were not visible, so I could not track them. To obtain the other metrics (Drop and other denoms' progressives movements) I will probably have to wait until I see a play (75 cents denom with Buffalo at $43 or higher or 150 cents with a friend or "friend"[random vulture that I might be cursorily acquainted with like the LID or Barney - in all future posts that is what I mean by "friend"] present and the meter at $86 or above) although it certainly would be possible to measure the drop at a particular denom if I am close enough to look at the starting bank roll in the machine, have a large enough sample size (recording the ending bank roll at the last spin of the sample), and, ideally, the person hits a progressive.
    I was able to clock someone playing the 75 cent Buffalo denom - 75 cents moves it a penny, for a 1.33% meter.

  11. #131
    Originally Posted by tableplay View Post
    Originally Posted by tableplay View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    What's important is what percentage of the action is going into the buffalo meter. That means it has to be tracked:

    1. Bet size
    2. Number of spins
    3. meter increase

    This will determine the meter speed.

    Oh, there's another important factor. Are the meters on one bet level independent of the meters on another bet level? In other words, does playing on one bet level push the meters on the other bet levels too? Some games are like that.
    I watched someone playing Big5 at $3.75 a spin. This moved the Buffalo meter 9 cents each spin (41.7 cents moves this denoms' Buffalo a penny, so a 2.4% Buffalo $3.75 denom meter). The sample size was around 20 spins, and, given the consistency of the movement, I would say that Big5 has a coin-in meter rather than coin-out meter. The other denominations' Buffalo progressives (as well as the other four animals of the other four progressives) were not visible, so I could not track them. To obtain the other metrics (Drop and other denoms' progressives movements) I will probably have to wait until I see a play (75 cents denom with Buffalo at $43 or higher or 150 cents with a friend or "friend"[random vulture that I might be cursorily acquainted with like the LID or Barney - in all future posts that is what I mean by "friend"] present and the meter at $86 or above) although it certainly would be possible to measure the drop at a particular denom if I am close enough to look at the starting bank roll in the machine, have a large enough sample size (recording the ending bank roll at the last spin of the sample), and, ideally, the person hits a progressive.
    I was able to clock someone playing the 75 cent Buffalo denom - 75 cents moves it a penny, for a 1.33% meter.
    So it appears the higher bet levels have stronger meters.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  12. #132
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by tableplay View Post
    Originally Posted by tableplay View Post
    I watched someone playing Big5 at $3.75 a spin. This moved the Buffalo meter 9 cents each spin (41.7 cents moves this denoms' Buffalo a penny, so a 2.4% Buffalo $3.75 denom meter). The sample size was around 20 spins, and, given the consistency of the movement, I would say that Big5 has a coin-in meter rather than coin-out meter. The other denominations' Buffalo progressives (as well as the other four animals of the other four progressives) were not visible, so I could not track them. To obtain the other metrics (Drop and other denoms' progressives movements) I will probably have to wait until I see a play (75 cents denom with Buffalo at $43 or higher or 150 cents with a friend or "friend"[random vulture that I might be cursorily acquainted with like the LID or Barney - in all future posts that is what I mean by "friend"] present and the meter at $86 or above) although it certainly would be possible to measure the drop at a particular denom if I am close enough to look at the starting bank roll in the machine, have a large enough sample size (recording the ending bank roll at the last spin of the sample), and, ideally, the person hits a progressive.
    I was able to clock someone playing the 75 cent Buffalo denom - 75 cents moves it a penny, for a 1.33% meter.
    So it appears the higher bet levels have stronger meters.
    That's right Mickey - I have no idea if that sort of thing is common. I should also mention that both clocked Big5 machines are unlinked (I've seen the game in unlinked and linked versions - within the same casino). I saw the unlinked 75 cent Rhino over $90 ($40 reset - one higher than the Buffalo) yesterday, but I have no idea what the expected progressive hit frequency is on this and I only ever chase the Buffalo, so someone else picked it off I would assume. If it's not must hit, I am only chasing the lowest, cheapest denom (75 cent, Buffalo) if I am spinning it on my own and not a split (on a split I will still only chase the Buffalo, but possibly at a higher denom) since there is no upper bound on how much money it can take to get picked off.

  13. #133
    Originally Posted by tableplay View Post
    Originally Posted by tableplay View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    What's important is what percentage of the action is going into the buffalo meter. That means it has to be tracked:

    1. Bet size
    2. Number of spins
    3. meter increase

    This will determine the meter speed.

    Oh, there's another important factor. Are the meters on one bet level independent of the meters on another bet level? In other words, does playing on one bet level push the meters on the other bet levels too? Some games are like that.
    I watched someone playing Big5 at $3.75 a spin. This moved the Buffalo meter 9 cents each spin (41.7 cents moves this denoms' Buffalo a penny, so a 2.4% Buffalo $3.75 denom meter). The sample size was around 20 spins, and, given the consistency of the movement, I would say that Big5 has a coin-in meter rather than coin-out meter. The other denominations' Buffalo progressives (as well as the other four animals of the other four progressives) were not visible, so I could not track them. To obtain the other metrics (Drop and other denoms' progressives movements) I will probably have to wait until I see a play (75 cents denom with Buffalo at $43 or higher or 150 cents with a friend or "friend"[random vulture that I might be cursorily acquainted with like the LID or Barney - in all future posts that is what I mean by "friend"] present and the meter at $86 or above) although it certainly would be possible to measure the drop at a particular denom if I am close enough to look at the starting bank roll in the machine, have a large enough sample size (recording the ending bank roll at the last spin of the sample), and, ideally, the person hits a progressive.
    I was able to clock someone playing the 75 cent Buffalo denom - 75 cents moves it a penny, for a 1.33% meter.
    The Rhino meter of the 75 cent progressive also moves a penny when 75 cents is wagered.

  14. #134
    Bump.

    Time to take a break from the "Drama Network" and go to the "Learning Channel".

    I had the unfortunate opportunity to go to AC for two days last week. My ugliest 48 hours ever. Bally's took away four of the DDBAF machines leaving only two in a remote corner. Only real game at Caesars is JOB. The wife decided to go slots. Bad move. I hid and cried at the Diamond Lounge.

    Anyhow, I did go to AC with my notes for Harley Davidson and was ready to put my new learned knowledge to use. Alas, at both Caesars and Wild Wild West (next to Bally's) the meters never reached a playable rate. Even my wife was eager to give these machines a crack.

    Nevertheless, this is why I sit in the bleachers and view the forum regularly. I am hoping to learn something and put it to use.

    Thanks to Monet and MC for periodically putting something on the forum that I can attempt to use.

  15. #135
    Originally Posted by Deech View Post
    Bump.

    Time to take a break from the "Drama Network" and go to the "Learning Channel".

    I had the unfortunate opportunity to go to AC for two days last week. My ugliest 48 hours ever. Bally's took away four of the DDBAF machines leaving only two in a remote corner. Only real game at Caesars is JOB. The wife decided to go slots. Bad move. I hid and cried at the Diamond Lounge.

    Anyhow, I did go to AC with my notes for Harley Davidson and was ready to put my new learned knowledge to use. Alas, at both Caesars and Wild Wild West (next to Bally's) the meters never reached a playable rate. Even my wife was eager to give these machines a crack.

    Nevertheless, this is why I sit in the bleachers and view the forum regularly. I am hoping to learn something and put it to use.

    Thanks to Monet and MC for periodically putting something on the forum that I can attempt to use.

    The 3 HD's you are talking about at Caesars have a few locals who keep an eye on them along with the other exploitable games there. Including a few near the front (Boardwalk) door on the 1st floor. And some of them are real assholes acting like they own the rights to any positive play.

    And I'll 2nd the Thank You to Mick and Monet. Sift through all of the garbage on the site and you can find a few gems occasionally.

  16. #136
    Originally Posted by Deech View Post
    Time to take a break from the "Drama Network" and go to the "Learning Channel".

    Thanks to Monet and MC for periodically putting something on the forum that I can attempt to use.
    I posted most of the information I wanted to share in a flood or bulk format.
    I don't mind posting or talking about information publicly.
    However, not too many want to discuss it.
    Someone told me that the Hot Sucker Thread helped them and they printed it out reading it from time to time.
    I find that I get slack from both sides when I post up information.
    I also find that the information doesn't pertain to too many members and isn't really helping.
    My point in posting, wasn't to show someone exactly what and how and when to play.
    It was more of a blueprint of how to get started.
    The individual could choose to play it straight or crooked.
    Do you have a little crossover in your heart? (Golf Reference for Public Courses)

    Thanks for the acknowledgement though and I suspect I will post up something again in the future.
    The blueprint is basically in that Hot Sucker Thread and not much more is to be said.
    It isn't for everyone and I wouldn't suggest to do it full time...
    I would say it can help you get a leg up compared to just plopping down.

  17. #137
    I did not see anything at Caesars but, at Bally's, I did see a younger guy in a hooded sweatshirt (yeah that would not attract attention) pressing the buttons on three certain machines. When I checked those games out I saw that they were a mermaid type game that has bubbles rising up the screen that act as wild cards. Interesting. He was checking machines to se if anyone left a bubble filled screen (like vultures on Ultimate X).

    For the record, I did play these machines evenly but I laughed at how this younger guy had multiple slips to cash in after this non eventful three machine review.

    The way the 48 hours went (primarily the wife) I should have just followed this guy looking for scraps.

  18. #138
    Originally Posted by monet View Post
    Originally Posted by Deech View Post
    Time to take a break from the "Drama Network" and go to the "Learning Channel".

    Thanks to Monet and MC for periodically putting something on the forum that I can attempt to use.
    I posted most of the information I wanted to share in a flood or bulk format.
    I don't mind posting or talking about information publicly.
    However, not too many want to discuss it.
    Someone told me that the Hot Sucker Thread helped them and they printed it out reading it from time to time.
    I find that I get slack from both sides when I post up information.
    I also find that the information doesn't pertain to too many members and isn't really helping.
    My point in posting, wasn't to show someone exactly what and how and when to play.
    It was more of a blueprint of how to get started.
    The individual could choose to play it straight or crooked.
    Do you have a little crossover in your heart? (Golf Reference for Public Courses)

    Thanks for the acknowledgement though and I suspect I will post up something again in the future.
    The blueprint is basically in that Hot Sucker Thread and not much more is to be said.
    It isn't for everyone and I wouldn't suggest to do it full time...
    I would say it can help you get a leg up compared to just plopping down.
    I like when you talk about the food comps.

  19. #139
    Originally Posted by Deech View Post
    I did not see anything at Caesars but, at Bally's, I did see a younger guy in a hooded sweatshirt (yeah that would not attract attention) pressing the buttons on three certain machines. When I checked those games out I saw that they were a mermaid type game that has bubbles rising up the screen that act as wild cards. Interesting. He was checking machines to se if anyone left a bubble filled screen (like vultures on Ultimate X).

    For the record, I did play these machines evenly but I laughed at how this younger guy had multiple slips to cash in after this non eventful three machine review.

    The way the 48 hours went (primarily the wife) I should have just followed this guy looking for scraps.
    Ocean Magic. There are two important symbols, the bubble/wilds and the yellow ocean magic symbols. When the ocean magic symbol lands on a bubble/wild it turns all adjacent symbols wild. The most important reel is the 3rd column. This is where you want to find a bubble below the line or a wild in the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th row. The top row is no good because the wilds move upwards as you make the spin. The top row bubble will rotate off the screen.

    When vulturing you can find wilds in any of the five columns. But like I said, the 3rd column is the powerhouse. There are more ocean magic symbols in the 3rd column than any other reel so you have a very good chance of connecting. The return to player is in the hundreds of percent.

    The 1st column has the 2nd most ocean magic symbols but its much harder to connect on it and you will wind up with only two wild rows when you do connect. I showed only an 80% return on the 1st column so quit playing it.

    With the 2nd column you will wind up with three wild rows when you connect but this column is the hardest of all to connect with the ocean magic symbols. The ocean magic symbol only comes out in a block of one whereas the 1st and 3rd rows they can come out in blocks of 2,3,4. I didn't show a profit on this row either so quit playing it.

    Forget the wilds in the 4th and 5th columns. They are very low return and its irritating as hell when you do connect but nothing lines up with it in the first three columns.

    In the video stop it at 0:26. You can see the yellow bubble below the line in the 1st column. When vulturing you want to look for this. And at 1:56 you can see what sometimes happens when you are vulturing the game. A whole bunch of bubbles can come out. I love it when that happens.

    Also, you would much rather find a play in non-bubble boost. The bubble boost function adds a lot more bubbles but the line pays are discounted.

    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  20. #140
    PS: I'll play the 1st or 2nd columns if there is something in the 4th column.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

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