Rob Singer sightings...

[coach belly]

How could you verify that you've made any bets, or a net profit from sports betting?

How would other people verify that you weren't blowing money on other options and cherry picking the winning ticket with which to pose?

I guess you could have a group of credible people who get time and date stamped emails from you regarding all plays, and everyone gets the same plays.

Have any of these credible people stepped forward to verify your claims?

What if another group got the other side of the plays from one of your partners?

If your fee is commissioned-based, do you refund previous fees received for subsequent losing plays?

I guess you could participate in contests where your selections are visible to thousands of people ahead of the games.

How do picks in a free contest establish that you've bet any meaningful sum on those games?

I guess you could request summaries from the offshore books with which you have accounts, since all of those accounts are in your name. Of course, people would try to sidestep that by taking terrible beatings at certain books and winning hugely at others, and cherry picking the results.

It sounds like these summaries are similar to Win/Loss statements from casinos. They don't establish that you've won overall, just that you've won with certain books. You admit that you could cherry pick the results to make you look like a winner.

I can tell you that Billy Walters didn't hire me because I had a reputation for losing.

You can tell any number of stories, but how can it been established that Billy Walters ever hired you?

[redietz]

I guess you could write to Billy Walters. Go to the source and all that. Be my guest.

Coach, you went in the direction I figured you would. The idiot's direction. Let's examine that, "did you bet any meaningful sum?" Does it matter, really, if somebody goes 60-40 ATS and bets a penny a game or a million a game? Is one more indicative of something than the other? Is the guy who bets a million a "player" as opposed to a pauper? The Billy Walters question segues into this. If you're not partnered up with Mr. Walters and you go 60-40, is that really any different than being partnered with him and going 60-40? Your idea of "meaningful," after all, is not the Sheik's idea of meaningful.

When I won the Heritage Sports Race to the Super Bowl three years ago, I posted that I was thinking of betting $30 or $35 on the game, and was canvassing ideas for prop bets. Argentino, of course, fired right up about what a poverty-stricken, small time loser I must be, and how I had misled people and on and on. Of course -- LOL -- I had purposefully left out the K from the 30 and 35. So Argentino was left with the proverbial egg.

It doesn't matter what your definition of meaningful is, really. All that matters is that you win. If you think the amounts matter, that's your weakness.

And I'm going to give you a clue here, but let's see if you continue down the idiot road. My partners really can't give the other side to the credible people.

[mickeycrimm]

Have any of these credible people stepped forward to verify your claims?

What if another group got the other side of the plays from one of your partners?

If your fee is commissioned-based, do you refund previous fees received for subsequent losing plays?

I guess you could participate in contests where your selections are visible to thousands of people ahead of the games.

How do picks in a free contest establish that you've bet any meaningful sum on those games?

I guess you could request summaries from the offshore books with which you have accounts, since all of those accounts are in your name. Of course, people would try to sidestep that by taking terrible beatings at certain books and winning hugely at others, and cherry picking the results.

It sounds like these summaries are similar to Win/Loss statements from casinos. They don't establish that you've won overall, just that you've won with certain books. You admit that you could cherry pick the results to make you look like a winner.

I can tell you that Billy Walters didn't hire me because I had a reputation for losing.

You can tell any number of stories, but how can it been established that Billy Walters ever hired you?

Coach, you're turning out to be a pretty good interrogater. Would you do us a favor, go over to Gambling Forums and interrogate Singer over his long held but not proven claims then get back to us with the answers?

[Bill Yung]

But you gave me an idea: maybe I'll start up a new forum for myself... the kind with more participants, more viewers and less talk about how to rip people off.

Come on, Alan, there's too much shit happening here for you to be somewhere else. People who want to agree on everything can go to the Wizard's, or to work for Trump. Besides, as you already found out, you can't calmly moderate the board you post on.

[coach belly]

I guess you could write to Billy Walters. Go to the source and all that. Be my guest.

That may not work, he may be too busy to answer.

You don't seem so busy, so how can you show us that Billy Walters ever hired you?

Does it matter, really, if somebody goes 60-40 ATS and bets a penny a game or a million a game?

I think it does.

A tout will provide several "clients" with picks that are better than 60-40 ATS.

[coach belly]

Coach, you're turning out to be a pretty good interrogater. Would you do us a favor, go over to Gambling Forums and interrogate Singer over his long held but not proven claims then get back to us with the answers?

But if I do that, then you'll owe me a favor, and I don't trust you not to welsh.

[redietz]

Gentlemen, gentlemen, no need for friction among friends. We wait with bated breath for blackhole and coach belly to offer their (undoubtedly better than mine) theories as to why Mr. Mendelson does not employ his friend's systems, which have no fail points. And for blackhole and coach belly to offer their personal explanations as to why the Argentino systems have no fail points. Perhaps blackhole and coach belly have come up with their own analyses of the Argentino systems and may have some ballpark estimates for fail points. We never know if we don't ask.

So blackhole and coach belly, feel free to educate us. I'm sure you two have understandings and explanations that go far beyond the abilities of simple gambling folks like myself and mickeycrimm to grasp. But please give it a try.

[mickeycrimm]

Coach, you're turning out to be a pretty good interrogater. Would you do us a favor, go over to Gambling Forums and interrogate Singer over his long held but not proven claims then get back to us with the answers?

But if I do that, then you'll owe me a favor, and I don't trust you not to welsh.

Do you mean welsh like your lover rob?

[coach belly]

Coach, you're turning out to be a pretty good interrogater. Would you do us a favor, go over to Gambling Forums and interrogate Singer over his long held but not proven claims then get back to us with the answers?

But if I do that, then you'll owe me a favor, and I don't trust you not to welsh.

Do you mean welsh like your lover rob?

I don't know Rob Singer, but my recollection of the exercise was that Singer did not welsh.

Acrid certainly had the opportunity to meet Singer's conditions and corner him, but he outright refused to meet the terms of the bet, and the chance to corner Singer was lost.

[coach belly]

But please give it a try.

Yes I will give it a try.

So that I know what I'm looking for, can you please provide an example of a fail point, and how it would apply to Singer's systems?

Use hypotheticals and estimates, I just need to understand what you are talking about.

While you're at it, try to work in some answers to my earlier questions, you have dodged nearly all of them.

[redietz]

I guess you could write to Billy Walters. Go to the source and all that. Be my guest.

That may not work, he may be too busy to answer.

You don't seem so busy, so how can you show us that Billy Walters ever hired you?

Does it matter, really, if somebody goes 60-40 ATS and bets a penny a game or a million a game?

I think it does.

A tout will provide several "clients" with picks that are better than 60-40 ATS.

A 60-40 ATS record is a fine accomplishment, not often achieved. Rarely does any handicapper top it for a season. I find it hard to believe you think otherwise.

Billy Walters didn't hire his roundtables based on how much they bet per game. He hired them based on their against-the-spread record.

[coach belly]

A 60-40 ATS record is a fine accomplishment, not often achieved. Rarely does any handicapper top it for a season.

How many picks qualify as a "season" ?

[redietz]

But please give it a try.

Yes I will give it a try.

So that I know what I'm looking for, can you please provide an example of a fail point, and how it would apply to Singer's systems?

Use hypotheticals and estimates, I just need to understand what you are talking about.

While you're at it, try to work in some answers to my earlier questions, you have dodged nearly all of them.

LOL --- and what question did I dodge? I haven't dodged any of them. I worked for Billy Walters 17 years ago. Simply write to him. We didn't part on the best of terms, so he will probably remember me.

A fail point is a return percentage for something at which your system or systems are predicted to lose. Argentino claims that the return percentage doesn't matter. So the question is simple, at what video poker return percentage are Argentino's systems predicted to lose? Or is there no such thing as a return percentage at which they are predicted to lose?

[redietz]

A 60-40 ATS record is a fine accomplishment, not often achieved. Rarely does any handicapper top it for a season.

How many picks qualify as a "season" ?

Rarely does any handicapper achieve 60-40 ATS, period. Do you really not know this?

[coach belly]

A fail point is a return percentage for something at which your system or systems are predicted to lose. Argentino claims that the return percentage doesn't matter. So the question is simple, at what video poker return percentage are Argentino's systems predicted to lose? Or is there no such thing as a return percentage at which they are predicted to lose?

This sounds like a rhetorical question.

Considering the games that he lists in his strategies, those games may not exist where the return percentage is low enough such that his system fails.

[coach belly]

A 60-40 ATS record is a fine accomplishment, not often achieved. Rarely does any handicapper top it for a season.

How many picks qualify as a "season" ?

Rarely does any handicapper achieve 60-40 ATS, period.

Over how many picks?

[coach belly]

and what question did I dodge?

You dodged nearly all of the questions in post #201.

And that's just so far today.

[Alan Mendelson]

Gentlemen, gentlemen, no need for friction among friends. We wait with bated breath for blackhole and coach belly to offer their (undoubtedly better than mine) theories as to why Mr. Mendelson does not employ his friend's systems, which have no fail points.

Actually I use most of Rob's system and so do most players.

I use a budget.
I play the best paytables available.
I play 8/5 Bonus which is in fact Rob's main game.
I quit after a big win... but I haven't had any big wins lately.

I do not use the special plays with the rare exception of when I play triple double bonus.

Redietz you continue to push the idea that Rob is practicing witchcraft. When will you finally concede he's just playing smart video poker without being stuck in a chair till hunger, sleep or bladder and bowel activity overwhelms him?

[jbjb]

Gentlemen, gentlemen, no need for friction among friends. We wait with bated breath for blackhole and coach belly to offer their (undoubtedly better than mine) theories as to why Mr. Mendelson does not employ his friend's systems, which have no fail points.

Actually I use most of Rob's system and so do most players.

I use a budget.
I play the best paytables available.
I play 8/5 Bonus which is in fact Rob's main game.
I quit after a big win... but I haven't had any big wins lately.

I do not use the special plays with the rare exception of when I play triple double bonus.

Redietz you continue to push the idea that Rob is practicing witchcraft. When will you finally concede he's just playing smart video poker without being stuck in a chair till hunger, sleep or bladder and bowel activity overwhelms him?

Tell us again how much you've LOST in your gambling history again using these methods???? Alan, you and anyone else will NEVER be a winning gambler following those steps.

I do agree though, leave whatever you're doing when hungry, tired, or a need to shit.

[Alan Mendelson]

Actually I've lost most of my money at craps. It's hard to be a loser at VP after hitting three $100k royals. (Yes, it's now three.)