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Thread: WARNING: If paying for your hotel room with RCs in Nevada, make sure they do NOT charge you tax!

  1. #1
    Nevada state law only requires remittance of room/sales tax if actual MONEY changes hands.

    Therefore, in Nevada, you are NOT required to pay tax if using RCs to pay for either your meal (on the spot at the time of dining) or your hotel room.

    Again, I'm not saying you can use your RCs for tax. I'm saying you shouldn't be charged tax at all.

    I ran into this situation this past weekend at Harrah's Las Vegas, where I stayed and paid RCs for it.

    Unfortunately, this wasn't a simple process. I had to pay 1 night in advance on my credit card, and then instruct them upon checkout to credit it back to my card, and charge my RCs instead.

    I was in a rush, so I forgot to ask the (relatively new and inexperienced) front desk employee if she charged my RCs for the tax. Turned out she did, which was a mistake.

    I called Harrah's today, and dealt with two guest services reps who were 1000% clueless and were stumped by the situation. The first one kept giving me nonsensical answers, then abruptly put me on hold. I hung up on her, got a different rep, who I asked not to put me on hold without permission. She was also very confused, and kept begging to let her put me on hold to "go over the reservation" (lol), despite not understanding what I was even asking. I finally asked for a supervisor, who understood the problem well, told me I was correct, and sent an e-mail to get my RCs adjusted. (Hopefully this really happens.)

    So if they try to charge you tax when you pay for your room with RCs in Nevada, tell them it's incorrect, and demand a manager until they do it right. It's better to do this at checkout time, rather than on the phone later.

    I assume other states have similar laws, but I can't say for sure, as I only know Nevada well.

    On a side note: Do not charge food to your room if you ultimately plan to pay with RCs. The tax WILL be charged, because the system doesn't know which way you want to ultimately pay, and getting it removed is extremely tough. Just pay with RCs on the spot at restaurants if that is your plan for how you want to pay.
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  2. #2
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    Always ask for a printed receipt and check it thoroughly when staying at any CET resort.

    On more than one occasion they have tried to charge me a resort fee as a Diamond member.

  3. #3
    Upon checking out of Rio on June 8th, they made me pay tax. I could use RCs for the tax, but they said the tax had to be paid in some way -- either RCs or with normal money.

    This INCORRECT because I paid for the entire stay with RCs.

    However, they all insisted I was wrong, and I had no way to check out without paying the tax with my RCs, so I did so and figured I'd fight it later.

    They did acknowledge that they weren't 100% sure that I really owed tax, but that the system was demanding the tax get paid, so that was the only way I could complete checkout.

    I was told that "accounting" would call me on June 11, but of course that didn't happen.

    I think I know what happened, but nobody at Caesars/Rio seems competent enough to fix it.

    Basically, the only way you can book a room with RCs is to first book it as a regular reservation, and then change it at the end of the stay to pay with RCs.

    Unfortunately, this triggers a room tax, since the system doesn't know when you book it that you're going to use internal RC points, so it charges you tax. Then, when checkout time comes, the system expects the tax to be satisfied.

    If you could make a "Rewards Credit Booking" in the first place, you wouldn't be charged tax. But there's no way to do that -- or at least I don't think there is. (If you know how, tell me!)

    I spoke to some obnoxious woman in the billing department today who came up with every excuse as to why I was wrong, but she had no clue. She was just taking guesses out of thin air to debate with me. I hung up on her eventually. She told me I needed to contact the legal department (lol).

    Right.

    As if Caesars' lawyers are going to be hard at work trying to resolve this issue. If I do speak to legal, they will give me a quick answer telling me I'm wrong, and hang up. I'm not going to bother. Lawyers don't like non-lawyers telling them they're doing things wrong (even if the non-lawyer is correct!)

    Anyway, I give up.

    On my next stay, I'm going to see if there's a way to swap it to an RC reservation in advance, so there's no tax charged. If there isn't, I guess I just have to eat it. Looks like I ran into a brick wall on this one.

    But still... try to ask them not to charge you tax when you check out, because maybe you'll get someone helpful. But probably not. I assume the system won't let the checkout complete unless the tax is paid.

    What a fail.
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  4. #4
    Well, I just looked into it myself and found something interesting.

    https://lasvegassun.com/news/2012/fe...g-taxes-comps/

    This February 2012 article states that, as of that date, Nevada changed its position and wants tax remitted for comped meals.

    Nevada determined that, since comps are given as a result of gambling (a commercial activity), then a sale has actually been made, and therefore tax is due. Normally, comped goods given away by businesses are not subject to tax, as no sale takes place.

    So does that mean I'm wrong regarding my assertion about Caesars charging tax on Nevada rooms paid with RCs?

    No!

    Because that deals with MEALS, not rooms. Look at this Clark County code to taxing hotel rooms (known as transient lodging tax):

    Clark County Code 4.08.050

    No combined transient lodging tax shall be imposed under the provisions of this chapter upon:

    (a) Rent received for an apartment, licensed as an apartment house under Section 6.12.090 of this code, wherein the renter has entered into a written lease with a rental period greater than thirty days. However, in the absence of a written lease with a rental period greater than thirty days, rent received for apartments rented for thirty days or less shall be subject to the combined transient lodging tax.

    (b) Rent received from permanent residents.

    (c) Rent paid directly by the following exempt organizations: United States, State of Nevada, federally chartered credit unions, and the American Red Cross. This exemption does not extend to rent paid by an individual who receives a cash advance from, or is to be later reimbursed by, the exempt organization.

    (d) Rent paid by foreign diplomats properly registered with the United States State Department.

    (e) Complimentary rooms wherein there is no rent paid to the operator in conjunction with the occupancy.

    (f) The cost of or rent paid for a room in a transient lodging establishment that is not used for sleeping, such as a meeting room.
    Source: http://clarkcounty-nv.elaws.us/code/...08_sec4.08.050

    The above makes it quite clear that they should NOT be taxing comped hotel rooms!

    Furthermore, Caesars doesn't even appear to follow the meal-related law! I know this because they do NOT charge tax when paying for meals with RCs!

    So again, I think they are in the wrong. Maybe I really will speak to legal and see what they say.
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  5. #5
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    That’s a lot to go through. Are they supposed to charge tax or no tax on a comped meal? Does it matter if it’s a comp or if it’s paid for using points?

  6. #6
    Originally Posted by RS__ View Post
    That’s a lot to go through. Are they supposed to charge tax or no tax on a comped meal? Does it matter if it’s a comp or if it’s paid for using points?
    Meals are technically supposed to be taxed, according to a 2012 ruling. However, Caesars does not tax them, provided you pay directly with RCs at the restaurant. Not sure why they don't. Maybe they're too dumb to realize they're not in compliance. Or perhaps this got reversed, but as far as I've seen, Caesars has never charged tax on meals if you pay directly with RCs.
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  7. #7
    I have an update.

    I was correct!

    After running into highly uncooperative people in various departments over the phone (shocker, huh?), I called the Rio VIP room, because the reps in there tend to be pretty nice and helpful for the most part.

    I got a good manager there (the same guy who checked me out last week) who was aggressively looking into the situation, and actually from the standpoint of wanting to know the answer, rather than the standpoint of trying to prove me wrong (unusual for CET employees!)

    Anyway, I sent him that Clark County Code to forward to his boss, who then forwarded it to her boss.

    When it was all said and done, they determined that I was 100% correct. They should NOT be charging tax on rooms paid with RCs. And just as I had assumed, the tax is erroneously being charged because their system isn't sophisticated enough to differentiate between types of payment methods.

    Feels nice to be vindicated.

    They are going to refund the RCs I was erroneously charged for tax, and they also agreed to fix the issue on my future reservation.

    No word on whether they will actually fix the system to work properly (I'm guessing they won't).
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  8. #8
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    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Originally Posted by RS__ View Post
    That’s a lot to go through. Are they supposed to charge tax or no tax on a comped meal? Does it matter if it’s a comp or if it’s paid for using points?
    Meals are technically supposed to be taxed, according to a 2012 ruling. However, Caesars does not tax them, provided you pay directly with RCs at the restaurant. Not sure why they don't. Maybe they're too dumb to realize they're not in compliance. Or perhaps this got reversed, but as far as I've seen, Caesars has never charged tax on meals if you pay directly with RCs.
    I always thought it was a discount equal to the amount of the sales tax.

    No matter what you call it, I've always paid less when I used my Reward Credits directly. My rooms were always comped so the tax on rooms was a non issue. However there,was tax on the mini bar and room service.
    Alan Mendelson
    www.AlanBestBuys.com
    "(Alan) simply can't get past a die having six sides." -- Michael Shackleford May 12, 2015

  9. #9
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    One more thing I remembered: when I used RCs to pay for room service and the mini bar, the applicable sales tax had to be paid in cash and was put on my credit card.
    Alan Mendelson
    www.AlanBestBuys.com
    "(Alan) simply can't get past a die having six sides." -- Michael Shackleford May 12, 2015

  10. #10
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    Nevada must be different because most places I've seen, state that the tax is already included in the price you see.

  11. #11
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    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    Nevada must be different because most places I've seen, state that the tax is already included in the price you see.
    What states? California, New York, Florida are states I'm familiar with and saless taxes are added on to retail prices.

    The only time I've seen sales taxes included in the price paid is with gasoline.
    Alan Mendelson
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    "(Alan) simply can't get past a die having six sides." -- Michael Shackleford May 12, 2015

  12. #12
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    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    Nevada must be different because most places I've seen, state that the tax is already included in the price you see.
    What states? California, New York, Florida are states I'm familiar with and saless taxes are added on to retail prices.

    The only time I've seen sales taxes included in the price paid is with gasoline.
    So if you paid cash for, say, a $25 buffet at a Nevada casino, they'd add tax on top? Around here, it's already in the $25. Maybe it's a regional or state thing.

  13. #13
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    Either the tax is added to the $25 price OR the displayed price of $25 shows the sales tax that's included similar to a gas station sign.

    If you look at a gas station pump in California the price per gallon is broken down to include federal excise tax, state excise tax, state sales tax, actual price of fuel alone and then a total price which is what you pay.
    Alan Mendelson
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    "(Alan) simply can't get past a die having six sides." -- Michael Shackleford May 12, 2015

  14. #14
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Originally Posted by RS__ View Post
    That’s a lot to go through. Are they supposed to charge tax or no tax on a comped meal? Does it matter if it’s a comp or if it’s paid for using points?
    Meals are technically supposed to be taxed, according to a 2012 ruling. However, Caesars does not tax them, provided you pay directly with RCs at the restaurant. Not sure why they don't. Maybe they're too dumb to realize they're not in compliance. Or perhaps this got reversed, but as far as I've seen, Caesars has never charged tax on meals if you pay directly with RCs.
    I always thought it was a discount equal to the amount of the sales tax.

    No matter what you call it, I've always paid less when I used my Reward Credits directly. My rooms were always comped so the tax on rooms was a non issue. However there,was tax on the mini bar and room service.
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    One more thing I remembered: when I used RCs to pay for room service and the mini bar, the applicable sales tax had to be paid in cash and was put on my credit card.
    Room service and minibar are food items, so that's a different story.

    As I posted earlier in the thread, technically tax has to be remitted for food sales made via comps. Not sure why they don't charge tax when you pay with RCs directly for food in Caesars-owned restaurants, but the law does state that tax has to be paid.

    Room tax, however, cannot be charged in Clark County if no money changed hands to pay for the room.
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  15. #15
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    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Room tax, however, cannot be charged in Clark County if no money changed hands to pay for the room.
    Over/Under that CET is pocketing the tax they charge on those rooms?

  16. #16
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    This sounds outrageous. Any time CP (or Bellagio or Aria) has picked up my food and bev no tax is charged.

    Perhaps if you use RCs this happens but when they comp your food on the back end this does NOT happen.

    Any decent player staying at CP should cash in all reward credits for free play or merchandise before checking out, knowing that the host will wipe out the food and bev charges. If you carry a rewards credit balance they force you use those before any discretionary comps can be applied.

  17. #17
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    Originally Posted by gamerfreak View Post
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Room tax, however, cannot be charged in Clark County if no money changed hands to pay for the room.
    Over/Under that CET is pocketing the tax they charge on those rooms?
    I think it's likely they are in fact keeping the tax money that should not have been collected. It wouldn't be the first time a company cooked its books.
    Alan Mendelson
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    "(Alan) simply can't get past a die having six sides." -- Michael Shackleford May 12, 2015

  18. #18
    CET probably isn't keeping the tax money.

    This is because it's occurring due to a bug in the system which treats credit-card-paid rooms the same way as RC-paid rooms. It expects tax either way, and presumably it treats the tax collected the same way (pays it to the government).

    That still doesn't make it right, though.

    The law I posted specifically says that they "shall not" charge it.

    I just stayed at Harrah's for 2 weeks. They refused to take off the tax when I checked out. I cited this law and told them what the Rio determined (namely, that I'm correct), and they still refused, citing the need to "research" it.

    I haven't heard back yet.

    What a joke.
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  19. #19
    Originally Posted by Dankyone View Post
    This sounds outrageous. Any time CP (or Bellagio or Aria) has picked up my food and bev no tax is charged.

    Perhaps if you use RCs this happens but when they comp your food on the back end this does NOT happen.

    Any decent player staying at CP should cash in all reward credits for free play or merchandise before checking out, knowing that the host will wipe out the food and bev charges. If you carry a rewards credit balance they force you use those before any discretionary comps can be applied.

    If you charge food/beverage to your room, then there IS tax charged. If the host wipes it off, I'm not sure what happens to the tax (since I've never seen how that part of the system works), but if your RCs are used to pay at that point, then YES, you do end up paying tax via your RCs.

    This is the same bug in the system, as paying for food/bev directly with RCs (not involving a room charge) incurs NO tax.

    However, I'm not sure why it incurs no tax, because of the law being different for food and beverage. Last I heard (see discussion in an earlier post), comp food and beverage IS taxable.

    Comp hotel rooms (or, alternately, rooms paid for with comp points) are NOT taxable. CET is just screwing up.
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  20. #20
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    Nevada must be different because most places I've seen, state that the tax is already included in the price you see.
    What states? California, New York, Florida are states I'm familiar with and saless taxes are added on to retail prices.

    The only time I've seen sales taxes included in the price paid is with gasoline.
    So if you paid cash for, say, a $25 buffet at a Nevada casino, they'd add tax on top? Around here, it's already in the $25. Maybe it's a regional or state thing.
    Buffet prices in Vegas are always before sales tax.

    So a $29.99 buffet in Vegas ends up close to $32.50.

    If you pay with RCs on the spot at a CET buffet, there is no tax charged. So you could have that $29.99 buffet for 2999 RCs, but if you charged it to your room and then paid with RCs, you'd need to use over 3200 to cover the tax.
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