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Thread: Copies of tickets

  1. #1
    California lottery officials advise members of lottery pools to have photo copies of tickets -- front and back -- to protect members.

    I have never heard of a problem caused by a photo of a winning ticket.

    What is the problem with posting a photo of a sports betting ticket? Are casino rules that much different from state lottery rules? I'd think all rules were set up to protect players as well as the organizations. I know that with the lottery there is a confirmation process if a ticket is lost and a photo is presented.

  2. #2
    People have seen open tickets posted online (presumably without a player ID, but more on this later), copied the information, and attempted to claim the ticket as lost or stolen. If someone has all of the details of the ticket or a photocopy of the ticket, and shows up to claim it before the person with the ticket gets there, the person there first certainly has to be considered as possibly the rightful owner. If the ticket has no player ID, and many sports books have separate systems from the host casino so it's not automatic that the ticket carries a player ID number, then the first claimant (who says the ticket was stolen) is likely to get the value of the ticket. The sports book can't sit around and wonder if the "rightful owner" is going to show up, so they pay the first guy. The second guy could show up with the ticket, and now it looks as if he's the guy who "found" or "stole" the ticket.

    When tickets have been stolen, and two people show up simultaneously to argue over who the owner is, sports books often step aside and the parties have to settle it themselves.

    Now one would assume a player ID on the ticket solves the issue, and in many ways it does, but the last thing the sports books want to do is police tickets. If you buy a ticket for your friend or your wife and your ID winds up on the ticket, do you really want your friend or wife unable to cash it? Similarly, if Billy Walters is sending people all over town to get tickets with the best numbers, he really doesn't want the tickets attached to particular individuals because that hamstrings the entire operation.

    If you have a group scouting numbers all over town, it is very cumbersome to have tickets assigned to individuals who then have to cash the very same tickets. It would bog down numbers shopping if everybody could only cash tickets with their ID.

    Many books in Las Vegas are not subsumed by the casino in which they reside. So visitors often don't bother signing up for a player ID with the book because it's not the casino slot program. CET combines them. WestGate has a separate sports card from the slot card. It varies place to place. In addition, since sports comps are so minimal, getting tracked and data mined is often considered more of a cost than the benefit of having a player ID. CET, in fact, will track winners and losers on your card, and your limits will be affected by how you track. Nobody who wins will want to be tracked at CET, then, so they would skip giving their card to the sports book.

  3. #3
    Question: there is no waiting period for substitute tickets at sports books? I find that hard to believe.

  4. #4
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Question: there is no waiting period for substitute tickets at sports books? I find that hard to believe.
    LOL -- what you find hard to believe or not hard to believe deserves its own Unsolved Mysteries special.

    I have not ever lost a ticket. I do not honestly know the April 4, 2018 rules and regs. I do have a story regarding flawed ticket paper at Treasure Island that resulted in tickets blackening due to heat (great in Las Vegas). I'll save that story for another time.

    You certainly have the resources and phone numbers to check out any delay rules. Call around and find out. My prediction is that, while it should be a state regulation, it's going to vary property to property.

  5. #5
    I and others that I know sign (or otherwise put an identifying mark on) the large winning tickets at the race track. It is very easy to lose or misplace a winning ticket, especially since they tend to stick to each other. If someone else finds that ticket and it has your signature on it, you may have some basis to claim it.

    While I have never lost a winning ticket, you see people every day searching for tickets they have lost.

    Also, since many people use a player's card, if I find a voucher I can have management find that player and return the voucher to him. No--I don't steal it even though it is equivalent to cash.

  6. #6
    You're a voice of reason.

    If Michigan had won, would Derek Stevens' ability to cash his ticket have been at risk because a photo of the open ticket was posted on facebook?

    Is there any risk associated with posting a photo of a winning ticket that has been cashed?

  7. #7
    Not after it's been cashed. That's why I referred to "open tickets." In the photo, the ticket is still open, correct?

  8. #8
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    Not after it's been cashed. That's why I referred to "open tickets." In the photo, the ticket is still open, correct?
    Yes the ticket in the photo was still open when the photo was posted.

    My question is...If Michigan had won, would Derek Stevens' ability to cash his ticket have been at risk because a photo of the open ticket was posted on facebook?

  9. #9
    I made some calls. I couldn't find a casino that would immediately accept a photo or photocopy IMMEDIATELY and all have an investigation period if not an original ticket.

    I'm not a sports bettor but you'll have to explain the danger of having photos of live tickets on the web.

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    Not after it's been cashed.
    Then why not post your winning NCAA football tickets?...or any proof that you bet on NCAA football at all?

  11. #11
    Why do that? Obviously, you could just be cherry picking the winners. Or they could be someone else's tickets. It's stupid. It would be like posing with my girlfriend's brother's Lamborghini. It proves I posed with a Lamborghini. It doesn't prove I own the Lambo.

    Now 90% of my wagering is offshore, but the same principle applies. I could post screenshots of offshore pages, but so what?

    Here's what makes it a really, obviously, dumbass worthless idea. My biggest wagers are middle shots. I could just post photos of the winning sides of enormous middle shots.

    "Yeah, that's the ticket." Note the SNL reference. You could go around posting screenshots of all the winning sides of enormous middle shots and make like they weren't middle shots. What kind of moron thinks posting shots of tickets demonstrates anything?

    Well, maybe the kind who posts shots of big video poker wins but doesn't take screenshots of losers, I suppose. LOL -- maybe we could get the two tickets of a big middle shot and put one on each of two blackjack tables. KJ, with his youthful eyes, could discern it was really a middle shot. Some of you other guys would, however, not be able to tell the other ticket was a loser.

    Coach, get a clue. This is kindergarten stuff. It takes anybody who knows anything three seconds to figure out, "Well, why would this moron post this? It's probably a middle shot."

  12. #12
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    Why do that?
    Why bother claiming success without being willing to prove it?

    You're obviously desperately seeking validation from strangers, so what do you have to lose?

    I don't believe you, I doubt anyone believes you, and you've offered nothing to back up your claims.

    Alan claims he hit a $100K royal, then he backs it up by posting his W2G...easy enough.

    So explain how you profited from hedging the UGA futures bet, show the bets you made to realize a profit.

    Otherwise you are just telling stories, and for what reason?

    Singer tells stories, and you demand proof....what absolves you from providing proof?

  13. #13
    I don't demand records (not proof; you're confusing the two) from Argentino. Go back through the records and find a post where I'm asking for Argentinos' income tax records or screenshots. There's no record he could provide that means anything. The system either wins or loses. The math is what matters. Seriously, go back and check. You won't find me saying his income tax or screenshots demonstrate this or that. I demand math from Argentino, not cherry picked records.

    I'll be in Las Vegas next week. If you want me to meet you and dig up the offshore hedges on the laptop, fine. The hedging was actually ridiculously complicated because I took Alabama -4 1/2 in the Wise Guys Contest. If Alabama had covered, I would have won the Wise Guys. So I had to moneyline Alabama to hedge my Georgia future and bet Georgia (I bet them up to +6) to hedge the Wise Guys Contest because there was about a 6K difference between first and third. It was bizarre and convoluted.

    You're hoping I didn't hedge Georgia. You're a bad man, coach, cherry picking stuff. You neglected to mention the Georgia to win the SEC at 9-1. See, I did hedge that, so it cost me some money. I also hedged the semi-final vs. Oklahoma. So that cost me some money. I hedge everything, basically. My girlfriend says, "Only wienies hedge." We have a difference of opinion.

    Posting screenshots of tickets demonstrates nothing. You know that. But I'll be more than happy to meet you in LV next week to show the Georgia hedges.

    I think pretty much everyone believes me, actually. Perhaps you could start a poll.

    P.S. I believe one of the gentlemen who I would have you talk with, you know -- one of the credible dudes, has a copy of "the package." I will try to whip one up for you if you can make it to LV next week. If not, you can discuss it with him. All I need from you is a verifiable name and address.
    Last edited by redietz; 04-05-2018 at 11:13 AM.

  14. #14
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    You're hoping I didn't hedge Georgia.
    I'm not hoping, I just don't believe you.

    I'm not going to LV next week to see something that you can show right here.

    Of course you knew that, so that's why you invited me.

    It's a variation of your old "look it up yourself" schtick.

    Since your name is attached to the sites, posting screenshots would demonstrate that you wager online.

    Even if all of the info may not be presented, it will show how much you wagered, which would lend credibility to your claims.

    What's the harm?

  15. #15
    How does the amount wagered lend credibility? I'm real curious to see the answer to this.

    Coach, you didn't happen to follow the Wise Guys Contest last season, did you? You seem awfully quiet about it. One would think games posted for thousands to see would carry some validity. But you don't seem interested in that.

    So let's get this straight. If you have to call Marc Lawrence to verify that I worked for Billy Walters, that's too much work? And copies of "Tipsters or Gypsters?" -- also known as The McCusker Report -- an 1980-94 consumer reports of handicappers, that would have no clout? And being vetted for "Who's Who in Sports Gambling," that has no clout?

    What has clout is me posting screenshots on vegascasinotalk for an anonymous guy named belly? Try again. Nobody should ever post records of their online wagering in a public venue.

    Coach, I'll give you until Sunday night to PM me your real name and address so I can put you in touch with the "credible people." If you aren't willing to do that, I have to figure you have no real interest in truth, justice, and the American way. What's the harm? A former CFO isn't going to kidnap you.

  16. #16
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    How does the amount wagered lend credibility?
    If you can't show proof of wagering then we can assume that you did not wager, and there is zero credibility.

    If you show tickets for a smallish wagers, then it's evident that you did not wager on behalf of a group of wealthy clients.

    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    Coach, you didn't happen to follow the Wise Guys Contest last season, did you?
    No I did not.

    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    So let's get this straight. If you have to call Marc Lawrence to verify that I worked for Billy Walters, that's too much work? And copies of "Tipsters or Gypsters?" -- also known as The McCusker Report -- an 1980-94 consumer reports of handicappers, that would have no clout? And being vetted for "Who's Who in Sports Gambling," that has no clout?
    Yes calling Marc Lawrence would be too much work.

    I haven't seen any copies of the reports you mentioned.
    Post them here see so we can all see what you are talking about.

    And you pay to be listed in Who's Who, so you were willing to pay for the validation that you seek.

    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    'll give you until Sunday night to PM me your real name and address so I can put you in touch with the "credible people." If you aren't willing to do that, I have to figure you have no real interest in truth, justice, and the American way.
    I'm willing to interrogate you, but not investigate you.

    I think it's best that everything is disclosed on the forum, PMs aren't necessary for that.

    We'll get to the truth as soon as you are forthcoming with your evidence...or not.

  17. #17
    When 2 people are claimiing the same ticket.....I wonder if the casino has computer proofof the tickets preceding the claimed ticket and after the claimed ticket. So if one party can recite or show other tickets bought at the same time..consecutive...it helps identify the real owner. As would video if its still archived.

    I usually buy a few tickets together...so if I lost one....the other tickets would serve as proof i would imagine. Even if its just one ticket along side of it in the system

  18. #18
    Originally Posted by coach belly View Post

    If you can't show proof of wagering then we can assume that you did not wager, and there is zero credibility.

    If you show tickets for a smallish wagers, then it's evident that you did not wager on behalf of a group of wealthy clients.



    No I did not.

    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    So let's get this straight. If you have to call Marc Lawrence to verify that I worked for Billy Walters, that's too much work? And copies of "Tipsters or Gypsters?" -- also known as The McCusker Report -- an 1980-94 consumer reports of handicappers, that would have no clout? And being vetted for "Who's Who in Sports Gambling," that has no clout?
    Yes calling Marc Lawrence would be too much work.

    I haven't seen any copies of the reports you mentioned.
    Post them here see so we can all see what you are talking about.

    And you pay to be listed in Who's Who, so you were willing to pay for the validation that you seek.

    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    'll give you until Sunday night to PM me your real name and address so I can put you in touch with the "credible people." If you aren't willing to do that, I have to figure you have no real interest in truth, justice, and the American way.
    I'm willing to interrogate you, but not investigate you.

    I think it's best that everything is disclosed on the forum, PMs aren't necessary for that.

    We'll get to the truth as soon as you are forthcoming with your evidence...or not.

    Just one problem, coach. Posting tickets is no evidence of wagering. That's obvious. Posting screenshots of offshore accounts is also no evidence of wagering. Obviously. I could scoop up losing tickets in the high roller sports room at the WestGate next week and post them here. Would that be evidence of high limit wagering?

    Tickets are just tickets. I'll pose with a Lamborghini tomorrow and post it. You can then draw the conclusion I own a Lamborghini.

    So if you know this, and it's pretty obvious you know this, the question then arises, "Why does someone would want me to post tickets online?" Sounds like there must be another motive, because screenshots of tickets are just screenshots of tickets. I wasn't born yesterday, coach.

    Still waiting for that real name and address so I can provide the names of numbers of those credible people you requested. You have a Sunday night deadline. The VP is available, but I have to check with the CFO.

  19. #19
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    Posting tickets is no evidence of wagering. That's obvious. Posting screenshots of offshore accounts is also no evidence of wagering.
    Earlier today you claimed that they are evidence of wagering.

    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    I saved photocopies of my best futures wins, back when the Rams beat the Titans in the Super Bowl
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    you could request summaries from the offshore books with which you have accounts, since all of those accounts are in your name.

  20. #20
    Originally Posted by coach belly View Post

    Earlier today you claimed that they are evidence of wagering.



    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    you could request summaries from the offshore books with which you have accounts, since all of those accounts are in your name.
    Creative editing coach. I kept photocopies of the tickets because I always keep major ticket copies in case I lose the tickets. Then I toss them after cashing. But I kept these photocopies as a fond memory.

    The complete quote features me saying I never even considered posting them. That was in 1999, and I never posted them. I've never even shown anyone. You seem to have skipped that. Why would you skip that? Seems dishonest.

    And I immediately followed the second quoted bit with an explanation that the screenshots from offshores would not be evidence of any winning because you could have lost a comparable amount or more on other sites.

    Now you're taking complete statements by me and hiding the second half of the statements. That's pretty lame. Clearly you're just yanking my chain.

    I have never said posting tickets is evidence of anything. Because it's not. In fact, it's what some of the biggest recent handicapping scam artists have used to create illusions of success.

    Still waiting for that verifiable real name and address from you so you can contact some credible witnesses.
    Last edited by redietz; 04-05-2018 at 09:34 PM.

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