Milking Free Play

[monet]

I also play at Red Rock. The MAXIMUM free play for table games is $75 per week no matter how big a player you are.

Let's say I buy in for $300 a day and play 20 days a month. That's $6,000 of buy ins. That $75 represents about one-tenth of one percent. Those are REAL numbers provided to me by casino management.

You are absolutely correct that the best you can do in Vegas is .1 % from mailers. I'm going on the record that this information from Alan is positively the truth and the best information given on these forums. So, now that everyone knows this I expect to not see any of you playing machines in town. I'd appreciate it if all of you stop trying to play machines for mail and do something else with your time. Thank you.

[DJatc]

man I would tell you but everyone here is so hostile so never mind

[monet]

So Alan is saying that the best you can do at Red Rock and other Casinos in Vegas is .1% of total play. I know this will fall on deaf ears and nobody cares but I don't like misinformation like that. I will show you all some current pictures of mailers I have for April. I have so many that I just don't want to have to take all the pictures and crop them and load them up. I took 8 pictures of mailers. Some are at 1200/900/520/300/75 so if I can only obtain .1% monthly I would have to put millions in action. This is not the truth. Some of these places I need to put around 50k to 100k per month per card. I have shared enough to get anyone started that wanted to play. The truth is that this .1% at Red Rock is just wrong.

I played some dice with another player to see what we would get in the mail as I told that story already. Currently for the Month of April we both got 250 in free bets and our coin in at the pit wasn't very much. We certainly got back more than .1%. As a matter of fact I played more but the other guy only played 20 mins with very little play and a 500 dollar buy in. The truth is that the Palms and the Stations do not drop your mail instantly if you keep your play up somewhat. The play falls off gradually for a few months before it falls right off the cliff. Anyways... whatever here are some pictures of what I am talking about.

[monet]

Two Red Rock or Stations monthly mailer for free pit bets...

[monet]

Here are two current mailers from Boyd... Sams Town play and Fremont for me...

[monet]

So here are three Palms Mailers... 1200/520/520 but the Food Comp is slightly different with the 520s...

[monet]

Next up a Stations Mailer... Recently I found the max mailer to be at 1250 but after 2 months of not giving much play they dropped me to 900...

[monet]

Last up a Fiesta Henderson Mailer... 900 with basically the same fall off as Stations.

[monet]

Look... I am not going to be posting here too much anymore but I hate the APs who preach honest morality in gambling and I hate when players post up misinformation about current conditions in Vegas when it comes to mailers and gambling in general. Alan wrote an article years ago that told everyone that 100% VP machines are not really 100% payback because tourists do not have enough time to cycle all the payout lines. It was a pretty ridiculous article inside a gaming magazine basically misleading the public. Whatever... It doesn't matter but don't tell me that you can only obtain a .1% advantage MAXIMUM through mailers currently in Las Vegas... that isn't true. The truth is that the mailers are the worst they have ever been for the most part but you still can find high percentage Free Play of mailers... well over .1%

[mcap]

Maybe mr alan gets 0.1% bc he play not smart. Let’s keep it simple ton. Say Alan is right 75 max per week table game bet no matter how big/long he plays. Then you don’t keep playing for 8 hours if you only needs
2 for $75. Yous go play somewhere else for those 6 hours and get more free bet monies, or do your laundry or something else mebbe.

[Alan Mendelson]

The fact is the maximum table games free play is $75 per week at Red Rock. If monet is also getting something like $900 or $1200 in slot/VP play we must ask how much is he playing? But getting back to my original question: monet IF YOU STOPPED playing with your own money WHEN would these free play offers stop?

That's my question. That you play a lot and get big free play for slots is not an issue.

By the way monet I find it curious you're only getting $50 each week for table play. Obviously you're a slot player.

[monet]

The fact is the maximum table games free play is $75 per week at Red Rock. If monet is also getting something like $900 or $1200 in slot/VP play we must ask how much is he playing? But getting back to my original question: monet IF YOU STOPPED playing with your own money WHEN would these free play offers stop?

That's my question. That you play a lot and get big free play for slots is not an issue.

By the way monet I find it curious you're only getting $50 each week for table play. Obviously you're a slot player.

I am just done with you and basically done with this forum. I have over 400 posts sharing my life and how I play and what I do in Las Vegas. I let you go when I was asking you questions about coin flips and you just kept replying with ridiculous replies. It is obvious that you and Rob do not care about how people play in Las Vegas and what they do to get advantages or how it works. I am not sure what your agenda or objective is.

Mine was always to shoot people straight on these forums because I thought these forums had an honest desire to learn about how gambling works in Las Vegas and what APs really do. I have never hidden the fact that it is a dirty world and that I do shady things to obtain advantages. I tried to keep things as real as possible on the forums but as MaxPen told me... almost everyone basically is just spitting in my face. So the jokes on me and I do seem to have egg on my face which is fine. I thought I could help in some small way with my experiences in Las Vegas for over 20 years but it is clear that I haven't helped anyone and I am just a big joke. You guys can have it... I am done trying share with these forums. I have said many times that I don't know everything but I thought I had some information to share that would be useful but it is clear that I do not. I never tried to sell anyone anything or charge anyone for the information. I kept things honest about how APs get into all sorts of vices and many of them are broke playing for the next play. I also shared that some APs have figured out ways to make a ton of money with little heat. It is obvious that I am not helping and am being trolled in some strange manner and I get it but I am just done with it.

I do know some players on these boards understand the information that I have shared and some of them appreciate what I have posted. However, the truth is that the APs on these boards have told me I am just wasting my time and I should use my time to just make more money in the Casino or spend it away from the computer and these forums. I have to agree that they are right about the advice they gave me long ago.

[Alan Mendelson]

Monet you can't give a straight answer to a simple question? Once again:

IF YOU STOPPED USING YOUR OWN MONEY WHEN WOULD THESE FREE PLAY OFFERS STOP?

[mickeycrimm]

I also play at Red Rock. The MAXIMUM free play for table games is $75 per week no matter how big a player you are. Let's say I buy in for $300 a day and play 20 days a month. That's $6,000 of buy ins. That $75 represents about one-half of one percent for the month. Those are REAL numbers provided to me by casino management.

Alan, here is your first problem. You are very bad at math mr. college graduate. $75 is 1.25% of $6000, not half a percent.

Here is your second problem. You don't have the correct understanding of what generates freeplay and comp. It is not based on the amount you buy-in for. It is based on the amount of wager you generate. I'm not familiar with how they do craps but it has to be something like this:

Average bet X bets per hour X hours played. This gives them a theoretical on how much you are worth based on their edge against you, your average bet, bets per hour, and number of hours you typically play.

They are willing to award you a fraction of your total wager in freeplay and comp. From what I've read it's about 20% of their theoretical against you (this is pit specific) but it most likely varies from casino to casino.

I'm not jumping on you about this but you are a B celebrity and your reporting to the general public that it is .1%, based on your faulty math and incorrect understanding of what generates freeplay and comp is not really doing a good service to the general public.

Did you ever notice that the Wizard, once he analyzes a new game and puts it up on WOO he immediately goes to WoV and asks the members to read it and report to him about any mistakes he may have made? And he is a degree'd mathematician. David Sklansky is also a degree'd mathematician but he has other degree'd mathematicians proof read his work for mistakes before he publishes.

[blackhole]

I don’t get a couple of things. Let’s say you earned 6 / 7 hundred dollars of free play per week for a month chopped up between four or five different casino groups, along with a burger and coke for each couple of day or week period.

How much coin did you have to put in to get that?

Do these free play tickets cover your loses while earning them in the first place?

Don’t you have to play through each free play once before it becomes your cash to take home?

I don’t see any free play exceeding $100.00 and most are for $50.00 per casino per group date. Let’s say each time you try to play through the one time amount you don’t win anything. How much of your own money do you have to put in to earn those free play tickets again?

Like that ass-hole Max-Pen said you showed us how to earn 40 or 50 K a year in free play. Yes, you sure did. You didn’t show us how much it cost in loses to earn that.

Where I really get stomped is when you tell me the casinos are giving you 50K in free play per year with food, cruises, a warm place to sleep, enough gifts it sounds like where you could open your own thrift shop instead of handing them out for free, and you could earn six figure annual profits from winnings.

[blackhole]

Did you ever notice that the Wizard, once he analyzes a new game and puts it up on WOO he immediately goes to WoV and asks the members to read it and report to him about any mistakes he may have made? And he is a degree'd mathematician. David Sklansky is also a degree'd mathematician but he has other degree'd mathematicians proof read his work for mistakes before he publishes.

Did you notice it didn't do him any good? He went broke and had to beg his forum members for donations.

[Rob.Singer]

what if he is telling the truth....what do you think is going to happen to him. Do you think that through this board he can be located? He is pretty small potatos when it comes to tax evasion.

Am I shocked that APS dont pay taxes or dont pay their required share? Nope. Oh yeah KJ and Axel crow that they pay their taxes.....but I dont buy that at all. Monet is very real in what I expect.

Heck, I wouldnt pay my expected share either....if I could easily get away with it. People who get paid by corporations like myself are an open book. But people who own their own business do not pay their fair share. It goes on all around

There is a chines restaurant near me that I frequent for take-out. They have a cash register that is basically no better than a cigar box. There is no electronic record of cash exchanged at that place. Credit card sales are transparent.....however cash sales are invisible to the tax man.

Just like AP cash wins are invisible to the tax man.

Larry, monet does in my opinion offer up a few interesting points about gambling. But if it's not about locals or himself then he has very LITTLE to offer. And he just never seems to want to answer that one simple question Alan keeps asking about free play, opting instead to claim he's tapped out of info.

What if he really is committing fraud? I lean very heavily towards him being just another AP who dishes out their sh** in different ways. He added a few zeroes to the BS to make it more intense and interesting, that's all. I believe he does understand his stuff. He just has a hard time relating without adding in a myriad of personal eye openers. I see it as just another way these AP's choose to distribute their BS as their quest for relevance from mostly anonymous posters goes on.

[mickeycrimm]

I don’t get a couple of things. Let’s say you earned 6 / 7 hundred dollars of free play per week for a month chopped up between four or five different casino groups, along with a burger and coke for each couple of day or week period.

How much coin did you have to put in to get that?

Do these free play tickets cover your loses while earning them in the first place?

Don’t you have to play through each free play once before it becomes your cash to take home?

I don’t see any free play exceeding $100.00 and most are for $50.00 per casino per group date. Let’s say each time you try to play through the one time amount you don’t win anything. How much of your own money do you have to put in to earn those free play tickets again?

Like that ass-hole Max-Pen said you showed us how to earn 40 or 50 K a year in free play. Yes, you sure did. You didn’t show us how much it cost in loses to earn that.

Where I really get stomped is when you tell me the casinos are giving you 50K in free play per year with food, cruises, a warm place to sleep, enough gifts it sounds like where you could open your own thrift shop instead of handing them out for free, and you could earn six figure annual profits from winnings.

Knowing the trigger points on how much action gets how much freeplay is a big key to success. It can be done by trial and error but AP's have been trading this information back and forth on various casinos for years. vpFREE had a Las Vegas Locals forum that not just anyone could get into. You had to be a known quantity to get in. Dancer was the most prominent member. This kind of information was traded on that site. I don't know if the site is still active.

Take monet's Palms mailer. If the trigger point to get that $1200 a month is a $50,000 wager then the freeplay is worth 2.4%. (1200/50000 = 2.4%). At last report the Palms has $1 NSUD, a 99.73% game. Add it up and it's a 2.13% advantage. I could do the 50K wager in about 10 hours of play. It would be about a $1000 theoretical earn. That's about $100 per hour.

If you have to run 100K to get the $1200 then it's a .93% edge. It would be a theoretical earn of about $900 but it would take twice as many hours to run the action so an hourly of about $45.

[mickeycrimm]

Did you ever notice that the Wizard, once he analyzes a new game and puts it up on WOO he immediately goes to WoV and asks the members to read it and report to him about any mistakes he may have made? And he is a degree'd mathematician. David Sklansky is also a degree'd mathematician but he has other degree'd mathematicians proof read his work for mistakes before he publishes.

Did you notice it didn't do him any good? He went broke and had to beg his forum members for donations.

He wasn't broke. He was living large, probably to large when he got taken off by banks in Cypress. His main fault is he admittedly is not that good of a businessman. He owned an expensive home and had kids in private school. The one thing that was an easy read on him was he spent so much time analyzing and putting up games on his site that he couldn't have had much time to do anything else. I think he's a great sports bettor but I also think he played edges that were way to thin at video poker. Anyways, he cashed for 2.4 Million. That's a pretty good payday and I'm sure he doesn't work for cheap at LCB.

[Rob.Singer]

Next up a Stations Mailer... Recently I found the max mailer to be at 1250 but after 2 months of not giving much play they dropped me to 900...

These items are completely misleading, and a truthful answer to blackhole's question wouldn't have hurt.

As a non-local who is ahead of Stations this and last year, my free play and hotel offers stopped as soon as I got ahead. We like staying at GVR & RR so now, even with a President's card, I have to pay. I COULD probably call a host and beg for a free room, but I never talk to hosts. I'd prefer to win the cash by setting my trip win goal a little higher that covers the room and that's exactly what I do.

So for monet to be receiving the 3 & 4-figure free play offers, he's losing. And I'm not believing for a second that such a heavy gambler has the discipline to ever walk into a casino to play his free play thru once and leave. He does exactly what the casino reels him in to do--put the free play ticket in, lose it, the start feeding in the cash.