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Thread: Fool's Gold -- Why Jackpot and Big Ticket Screenshots Don't Matter

  1. #61
    I thought arci said he only played a one-eyed jacks game that was at or very near 100% EV.

  2. #62
    Originally Posted by dannyj View Post
    I thought arci said he only played a one-eyed jacks game that was at or very near 100% EV.
    You're correct. I meant to say One Eyed Jacks but I goofed.

  3. #63
    Originally Posted by dannyj View Post
    I thought arci said he only played a one-eyed jacks game that was at or very near 100% EV.
    That would the paytable where the wild royal pays 180 to 1 (instead of 200 for the full pay game), the five of a kind pays 80 to 1 (instead of 75 for the full pay game), and the straight flush pays 50 to 1 (same as full pay game). The game comes in at 99.9779% . Due to variance, the enormous complexity of penalty card situations and the duel strategies - one for for hearts and spades (since the wild jacks are hearts and spades) and one for diamonds and clubs, you need a good multiplier promo since no one is going to play the game with 100% accuracy except perhaps an autistic savant - knock off about .5% and go from there. Many of the holds are suited connectors up to two gaps wide (and only for diamonds and clubs usually except for rare penalty card situations), and oddball individual card holds such as the 5,6,7, or 10 of clubs/diamonds (with rare cases of holding a 5 of hearts for example). Anyway it's a great game.

  4. #64
    Not a fan of Arci and don't know if he was a savant, but I would bet he played that game to near perfection.

  5. #65
    Originally Posted by tableplay View Post
    Originally Posted by dannyj View Post
    I thought arci said he only played a one-eyed jacks game that was at or very near 100% EV.
    That would the paytable where the wild royal pays 180 to 1 (instead of 200 for the full pay game), the five of a kind pays 80 to 1 (instead of 75 for the full pay game), and the straight flush pays 50 to 1 (same as full pay game). The game comes in at 99.9779% . Due to variance, the enormous complexity of penalty card situations and the duel strategies - one for for hearts and spades (since the wild jacks are hearts and spades) and one for diamonds and clubs, you need a good multiplier promo since no one is going to play the game with 100% accuracy except perhaps an autistic savant - knock off about .5% and go from there. Many of the holds are suited connectors up to two gaps wide (and only for diamonds and clubs usually except for rare penalty card situations), and oddball individual card holds such as the 5,6,7, or 10 of clubs/diamonds (with rare cases of holding a 5 of hearts for example). Anyway it's a great game.
    As a native New Yorker living in the Boston area for 34 years I have had my casual discussions. I remember talking with an individual about math or sports (or a combination of both) and an outsider came up to me and asking if I was an Idiot Savant. Without missing a beat, I replied that, no, I am a Jerk Extraordinaire. He smiled and walked away. I believe that is the only time a Red Sox fan and a Yankee fan has ever agreed.

    I guess I got that going for me.

  6. #66
    Originally Posted by tableplay View Post
    Originally Posted by dannyj View Post
    I thought arci said he only played a one-eyed jacks game that was at or very near 100% EV.
    That would the paytable where the wild royal pays 180 to 1 (instead of 200 for the full pay game), the five of a kind pays 80 to 1 (instead of 75 for the full pay game), and the straight flush pays 50 to 1 (same as full pay game). The game comes in at 99.9779% . Due to variance, the enormous complexity of penalty card situations and the duel strategies - one for for hearts and spades (since the wild jacks are hearts and spades) and one for diamonds and clubs, you need a good multiplier promo since no one is going to play the game with 100% accuracy except perhaps an autistic savant - knock off about .5% and go from there. Many of the holds are suited connectors up to two gaps wide (and only for diamonds and clubs usually except for rare penalty card situations), and oddball individual card holds such as the 5,6,7, or 10 of clubs/diamonds (with rare cases of holding a 5 of hearts for example). Anyway it's a great game.
    Those payoffs should be "for 1", not "to 1."

  7. #67
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    Originally Posted by tableplay View Post
    Originally Posted by dannyj View Post
    I thought arci said he only played a one-eyed jacks game that was at or very near 100% EV.
    That would the paytable where the wild royal pays 180 to 1 (instead of 200 for the full pay game), the five of a kind pays 80 to 1 (instead of 75 for the full pay game), and the straight flush pays 50 to 1 (same as full pay game). The game comes in at 99.9779% . Due to variance, the enormous complexity of penalty card situations and the duel strategies - one for for hearts and spades (since the wild jacks are hearts and spades) and one for diamonds and clubs, you need a good multiplier promo since no one is going to play the game with 100% accuracy except perhaps an autistic savant - knock off about .5% and go from there. Many of the holds are suited connectors up to two gaps wide (and only for diamonds and clubs usually except for rare penalty card situations), and oddball individual card holds such as the 5,6,7, or 10 of clubs/diamonds (with rare cases of holding a 5 of hearts for example). Anyway it's a great game.
    Those payoffs should be "for 1", not "to 1."
    Yes.

  8. #68
    Originally Posted by regnis View Post
    Not a fan of Arci and don't know if he was a savant, but I would bet he played that game to near perfection.
    In some cases there will be 3 or 4 different hold possibilities, all within a few basis points of one another - for example (using the 97.95% version of the game), as shown below, I errantly hold the six of clubs which is a 0.0001 mistake (my bad) in EV versus the correct play which is to hold nothing (but a lower variance of 1.7052 holding the six of clubs versus 2.7115 for the correct play). As you can see below, there are four plays within 0.0024 EV of one another - and these situations come up all the time. My hat goes off to Arci if he could play it at or less than .3% of perfection.Name:  oej_four_hold_choices.jpg
Views: 112
Size:  208.7 KB
    Last edited by tableplay; 06-21-2018 at 03:35 PM.

  9. #69
    No hats off to anyone thAt needs to play a game/paytable perfectly at a fasspeed t in order to have an advantage with a fair hourly...is what you are doing...you are doing it wrong or you are obsessed with something.

    9 Times out of 10 the time and effort needed to play VP perfect takes away from your overall hourly rate.

    One needs to understand what I mean by playing perfectly. I'm not talking about glaring mistakes or hands that come up frequently. I'm talking About hands that like reverse penalty cards that cost you a fraction of a cent. If you have to pause on a hand that rarely comes up and has a insignificant cost.. its not worth it. People seem to think you need to play 100% prefect to have an advantage. That's simply not true at all. If you Only have a .1 advantage then you better Play perfectly I guess.
    Last edited by AxelWolf; 06-21-2018 at 03:39 PM.

  10. #70
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    No hats off to anyone thAt needs to play a game/paytable perfectly at a fasspeed t in order to have an advantage with a fair hourly...is what you are doing...you are doing it wrong or you are obsessed with something.

    9 Times out of 10 the time and effort needed to play VP perfect takes away from your overall hourly rate.

    One needs to understand what I mean by playing perfectly. I'm not talking about glaring mistakes or hands that come up frequently. I'm talking About hands that like reverse penalty cards that cost you a fraction of a cent. If you have to pause on a hand that rarely comes up and has a insignificant cost.. its not worth it. People seem to think you need to play 100% prefect to have an advantage. That's simply not true at all. If you Only have a .1 advantage then you better Play perfectly I guess.
    Axel, when I say hats of to Arci for playing near-perfect (or perfect) OEJ, I am speaking from the perspective of intellectual mightiness - not the perspective of AP play. My decision to hold the 6 of clubs took place in a millisecond - I didn't' deliberate at all in choosing to hold it. The hand came up and I held the 6 of clubs. Then when the software said I had the hold wrong, I was surprised and looked to see what the correct play was. At the casino I would have made this same wrong decision just as quickly (costing me 0.0001 in EV for this much lower variance, but wrong play). Personally, I use OEJ for plays that are higher than a 10% player edge or for churning free play, because I love how the variance is structured for this game. I would never depend on this game to take advantage of a 0.5% - 1% player edge requiring perfect play.

  11. #71
    Originally Posted by tableplay View Post
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    No hats off to anyone thAt needs to play a game/paytable perfectly at a fasspeed t in order to have an advantage with a fair hourly...is what you are doing...you are doing it wrong or you are obsessed with something.

    9 Times out of 10 the time and effort needed to play VP perfect takes away from your overall hourly rate.

    One needs to understand what I mean by playing perfectly. I'm not talking about glaring mistakes or hands that come up frequently. I'm talking About hands that like reverse penalty cards that cost you a fraction of a cent. If you have to pause on a hand that rarely comes up and has a insignificant cost.. its not worth it. People seem to think you need to play 100% prefect to have an advantage. That's simply not true at all. If you Only have a .1 advantage then you better Play perfectly I guess.
    Axel, when I say hats of to Arci for playing near-perfect (or perfect) OEJ, I am speaking from the perspective of intellectual mightiness - not the perspective of AP play. My decision to hold the 6 of clubs took place in a millisecond - I didn't' deliberate at all in choosing to hold it. The hand came up and I held the 6 of clubs. Then when the software said I had the hold wrong, I was surprised and looked to see what the correct play was. At the casino I would have made this same wrong decision just as quickly (costing me 0.0001 in EV for this much lower variance, but wrong play). Personally, I use OEJ for plays that are higher than a 10% player edge or for churning free play, because I love how the variance is structured for this game. I would never depend on this game to take advantage of a 0.5% - 1% player edge requiring perfect play.
    I was not trying to direct that at you. It was more of a general statement.

    I have heard people say things like, "You need to play VP perfect or you cant gain an advantage and that's next to impossible."

    Then you have people that spend time and money on books, programs, practice and whatnot thinking they are going to get rich if they can just learn to play VP perfectly while sitting their ass in the same seat all day long.

  12. #72
    Ya well you don't have to play so perfect at the 4 Queens right now since they give you $400 on 4k pts in on video poker. However some Dumb Gook decided to run his mouth as usual and show off his rubber band of 80 players cards at the bar and drew some heat. Next this Dumb Ho decides to play on Day Shift and has his Host roll up on him. I have been drilling this guys ear for 3 decades about this stupid shit and he just keeps it up. It was bad enough when he was always drinking Heinekens but it seems Coors Light with a Glass is just as Detrimental.

    Reminds me of Robert at the Hilton... Fucking Idiots!

  13. #73
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    Originally Posted by tableplay View Post
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    No hats off to anyone thAt needs to play a game/paytable perfectly at a fasspeed t in order to have an advantage with a fair hourly...is what you are doing...you are doing it wrong or you are obsessed with something.

    9 Times out of 10 the time and effort needed to play VP perfect takes away from your overall hourly rate.

    One needs to understand what I mean by playing perfectly. I'm not talking about glaring mistakes or hands that come up frequently. I'm talking About hands that like reverse penalty cards that cost you a fraction of a cent. If you have to pause on a hand that rarely comes up and has a insignificant cost.. its not worth it. People seem to think you need to play 100% prefect to have an advantage. That's simply not true at all. If you Only have a .1 advantage then you better Play perfectly I guess.
    Axel, when I say hats of to Arci for playing near-perfect (or perfect) OEJ, I am speaking from the perspective of intellectual mightiness - not the perspective of AP play. My decision to hold the 6 of clubs took place in a millisecond - I didn't' deliberate at all in choosing to hold it. The hand came up and I held the 6 of clubs. Then when the software said I had the hold wrong, I was surprised and looked to see what the correct play was. At the casino I would have made this same wrong decision just as quickly (costing me 0.0001 in EV for this much lower variance, but wrong play). Personally, I use OEJ for plays that are higher than a 10% player edge or for churning free play, because I love how the variance is structured for this game. I would never depend on this game to take advantage of a 0.5% - 1% player edge requiring perfect play.
    I was not trying to direct that at you. It was more of a general statement.

    I have heard people say things like, "You need to play VP perfect or you cant gain an advantage and that's next to impossible."

    Then you have people that spend time and money on books, programs, practice and whatnot thinking they are going to get rich if they can just learn to play VP perfectly while sitting their ass in the same seat all day long.
    There are now so many different gaming devices that can be left in an advantageous state by one's predecessor, that I couldn't agree more.

  14. #74
    arci plays the 75-50 version of oej which is 100.28%. The difference between it and the 80-50 version is the wild royal pays 200 for 1 instead of 180 for 1. arci is a master of this game. He plays it because it is the best game found in his home state of Minnesota. I found it there last year at Hinckley and one other spot. I remember the card at Hinckley was worth .5%.
    Hate crime hoaxes? The left's demand for biggots greatly exceeds the supply.

  15. #75
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    arci plays the 75-50 version of oej which is 100.28%. The difference between it and the 80-50 version is the wild royal pays 200 for 1 instead of 180 for 1. arci is a master of this game. He plays it because it is the best game found in his home state of Minnesota. I found it there last year at Hinckley and one other spot. I remember the card at Hinckley was worth .5%.
    Unfortunately, the Atlantis was the last place to offer the full pay version (100.28%) in Northern Nevada (that I am aware of), and now it is gone. The best OEJ in town now is the 99.9779% version - but this version is not offered at places with good slot clubs. I wish I had seen the legendary Ace-line version (101.42% - one additional pay line for a pair of aces which returns the bet if hit) which was offered at Sam's Town in Las Vegas. Monet's friend saw an Ace Invaders offering of OEJ at Sam's Town IIRC from one his posts.

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