What's my edge in craps?

[coach belly]

Coach and Axel have to decide what the bet is.

When you have bets working and are paid on one or more of them,
I expect to be paid from Axel 5x whatever you collect each time you are paid by the dealer.

When one or more of your bets lose, I will pay to Axel 5x the amount of whatever bets the dealer takes away.

We can also keep track of every roll, and make an SRR bet after X number of rolls.

Guys is this a typical bet?
If I lose the $10 bet on the 4, Coach will pay $50 to Axel.
But if I win the $10 bet on the 4, Coach expects Axel to pay him $95?

If I lose $5 on the Small bet Coach will pay $25. But if I win the Small then Axel will pay $775?

Come on now. I wouldn't let Axel get into that.

Is this what you're both agreeing to?

Axel offered to book your craps action...you didn't want to bet on yourself and against him,
so I'll bet on you and against him.

The house takes your $10 line bet, Axel takes my $50 line bet.

The house takes your $5 Small bet, Axel takes my $25 Small bet.

I don't know why you'll bet against a casino, but not against Axel who continuously mocks you,
but aren't those the same odds that you get when playing craps at a casino?

[Alan Mendelson]

Axel will go broke. And when he realizes that he'll back out.

[regnis]

Wouldn't it be easier for alan to buy in for 1000 and play for 2 hours and then cash out. whatever the profit-or loss-is paid at 5x by coach or axel. Kind of silly to do it after every decision.

[Alan Mendelson]

Regnis even if I bought in for $1000 I'd have very little at risk. These days I bet the Small, Tall, All with the required pasline bet. Sometimes I don't even take odds.

I average hitting Small or Tall twice per session and sometimes I hit the All.

Bottom line is I have little exposure to losing but a huge upside potential.

[regnis]

Regnis even if I bought in for $1000 I'd have very little at risk. These days I bet the Small, Tall, All with the required pasline bet. Sometimes I don't even take odds.

I average hitting Small or Tall twice per session and sometimes I hit the All.

Bottom line is I have little exposure to losing but a huge upside potential.

Sounds like axel is willing to take that risk. Of course, apparently losing is good according to the EV thread, so WTF do I know.

[Alan Mendelson]

But craps is a -EV game so there won't be any EV banking.

[jbjb]

Bottom line is I have little exposure to losing but a huge upside potential.

So does a single $2 PowerBall ticket.

[coach belly]

Bottom line is I have little exposure to losing but a huge upside potential.

So does a single $2 PowerBall ticket.

You can get in on this action too jbjb, do you think Alan has an edge when he shoots?

[AxelWolf]

I would probably start out risking up to 5k for now and test out the situation make sure everything runs smoothly. If CB agrees and Alan is willing to hold and distribute the money properly then we can set it up.

I have a no weasel clause, meaning if there's some unknown factor such as a promotion, a dealer not paying correctly, known biased dice or something funny going on then no dice.

[AxelWolf]

Bottom line is I have little exposure to losing but a huge upside potential.

So does a single $2 PowerBall ticket.

You can get in on this action too jbjb, do you think Alan has an edge when he shoots?

Assuming evrything is fair, Axel will have an edge when Alan shoots.

[Alan Mendelson]

Since I am a pass shooter Coach will have the edge only on the come out roll. Axel will have the edge after that.

Since I will be there, sure, we can stuff the money in my pockets.

Coach and Axel must agree in advance on the forum who gets paid what with each decision.

I intend to do the following:

1. Bet the passline with $25 and $5 on the Small, Tall and All. I might not have odds on my passline bet. On the come out I will make a $5 horn high ace deuce bet

2. I may or may not make any other place bets

3. I will not make horn bets after the come out

4. Any hardway bets will be limited to only when the point is 6 or 8.

5. I may make bets for the dealers but these are exempt from the contest

6. I will decide when to stop playing and this will be based on how I'm doing for the day.

7. I prefer to play at Red Rock at around 5am but we can discuss a different time and place.

[MisterV]

I prefer to play at Red Rock at around 5am ...

Ooooh, a vampire.

[mickeycrimm]

Regnis even if I bought in for $1000 I'd have very little at risk. These days I bet the Small, Tall, All with the required pasline bet. Sometimes I don't even take odds.

I average hitting Small or Tall twice per session and sometimes I hit the All.

Bottom line is I have little exposure to losing but a huge upside potential.

Sounds like axel is willing to take that risk. Of course, apparently losing is good according to the EV thread, so WTF do I know.

More rank ignorance.

[mickeycrimm]

I can't believe what I'm reading in this thread. Fucking idiots think they can beat a minimum 7.5% house edge. In some houses it's a 20% edge. Why can't I own a casino? It's not fair.

[jbjb]

I can't believe what I'm reading in this thread. Fucking idiots think they can beat a minimum 7.5% house edge. In some houses it's a 20% edge. Why can't I own a casino? It's not fair.

It makes you wonder how much Scoblete, Dominator, Stickman and all these other craps con-men are paying these guys to keep up this ruse of DI/DC.

[Alan Mendelson]

Mickeycrimm has mentioned the odds....

$5 on the Small (or Tall) pays $155. If you hit it 1/30 times you profit. I average two hits per day.

I'm not even considering what happens when I hit the ALL.

Now consider this: $25 on the passline. One pass covers the $15 on the STA. By limiting secondary bets I limit my other losses.

Bonus Craps has changed everything.

[AxelWolf]

This should be very simple. I'm not exchanging money back and forth during the gameplay. I expect to get paid or pay a multiple(whatever we agree on 2x 3 x 4 x 5 x) of whatever Alan's final results are up to 5k of my money. I'm not tracking any rolls, I'll be too busy putting my hands in the tub and spreading chips around at the end of the table(-;.

--------------------------------------------

Before we go any further, can I ask you a few questions CB?

Do you live or are you in Vegas at this time? I would like it to be a situation where we can just go do this without a bunch of planning months/weeks in advance and have a big production(shit comes up often and I have to go out of town, I'm not willing to give up somthing valuable or more important for somthing like this). You know... Me, "Hey CB/Alan I'm available this Friday are you guys?" Alan/CB, "Ya sure, how does 2 pm sound?" Me, "okay, that sounds good I'll meet you guys at x restaurant"

Do you have 5k to bring to the table? I'm willing to show Alan or someone we agree on my 5K before we even go any further. I will even let someone we both agree on to hold my cash untill we set this up if you are willing to do the same. I don't want to sit here for 3 weeks discussing everything JUST FOR IT TO ULTIMATELY NOT EVEN HAPPEN. My theory is.... if you are willing to do that, then that means you are serious about doing it.

[AxelWolf]

I can't believe what I'm reading in this thread. Fucking idiots think they can beat a minimum 7.5% house edge. In some houses it's a 20% edge. Why can't I own a casino? It's not fair.

Mickey here is your chance to dabble. Assuming CB wants to add more to the pot you can take some action. I will even give up some of mine if not.

[Alan Mendelson]

I never asked for the bets and as you know I'm against betting outside of a casino. I don't bet with individuals and I stated this a long time ago.

Frankly I just want my craps rolls monitored for truth and accuracy to see if I really have an edge.

My concern is this: my ability to hit the Small and Tall does not fit the definition of a good shooter and this is because I have to hit horn numbers and no pass or even repeat numbers are needed.

I vividly recall playing at Bellagio and hitting the ALL with only ten throws -- one throw to hit all ten numbers. A player at the table was making come bets with full odds. He had the passline with full odds plus three come bets with full odds.

After I hit the ALL I rolled another 12 and then an 11, and then seven out. The come bet player was wiped out and he said to me "you suck."

Yes for him I sucked even though I had just hit the ALL.

[coach belly]

Do you live or are you in Vegas at this time? I would like it to be a situation where we can just go do this without a bunch of planning months/weeks in advance

No I live in NJ. This will need to be planned in advance.

Do you have 5k to bring to the table? I'm willing to show Alan or someone we agree on my 5K before we even go any further.

Is this a serious question? I'm an adult, I have $5k to bring to the table. I'm assuming the same applies to you, you don't need to show Alan your bankroll.

I'm serious, but you seem pretty squirrelly about it.

Stay cool and relax, something can be worked out if you can be reasonable.

You spend plenty of time on these forums...14K posts on WOV plus whatever other forums you participate on...you don't seem all that busy to me.

And the wormm is more than welcome to take some of this action, but he'll need to meet me at the table...no proxies.