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Thread: Trump is out of his mind! (and out of control)

  1. #1
    I don't like to discuss politics. I am a registered republican and voted for Trump in the primary (caucus here in Nevada) but not the general election.

    Unfortunately I feel like most things Trump does and favors, does not mesh with my conservative principals. I feel like most things are about making money for him and his family.

    But this policy involving separating families of immigrants is outrageous. This is not who American is or what America stands for.

    I can appreciate Trumps position on secure borders. Even to the point of turning people away. I mean it is not who we have always been....my family came from Ireland. Everyone's family came from somewhere (except the Native Americans). But times change....you just can't take everyone.

    As I said, if is fair to turn them away. It is not fair or reasonable, or humane to sperate families, and throw children and babies in prisons and cages like the Trump administration is doing.

    For decades the U.S has lead the way against inhumane treatment in other countries. Now the world is watching as we act the same as many countries led by brutal dictators. (and that's almost what we have). The United Nations has declared this a violation of human rights. The Nnited Nations! We are usually leading the way. Now we are the bad guy that The rest of the world is appalled by.

    Come on people....this is NOT who we are. This is NOT what America stands for. And Mr. Trump's brand of republican politics is not based in conservative republican principals. Enough of this shit!
    Last edited by kewlJ; 06-19-2018 at 10:50 PM.

  2. #2
    Whatever America you think you are living in is obviously not the America we are really in. Your Fathers, Fathers America has been long gone some time ago. You either adapt or die. You thought this would last forever or stay the same forever? You should realize that most generations have had to kill or be killed constantly. You are in one of the greatest times of peace in a country that has had an amazing run after they massacred the Native Americans and beat back the British and Mexico not to mention the French and Canadians. Oddly enough this country is currently in more Wars than ever before but not on our soil so you sit there and watch the boob tube eating bon bons thinking your doing something. Nobody seems to remember that Spain had to be beaten as well. Not only that but they made an amazing business deal in the Louisiana Purchase. Trust me the only reason you live the good life right now is because of the river of blood that came before your time.

    Read up on some history of the World and Countries and notice that things evolve and Empires Rise and Fall all the time... all the time. This Empire is about to collapse that is all. Expect another major war in the future and if not in your lifetime it will eventually come. Try to be happy that your living in a time and place where your people are in the best shape they have ever been at in the world. If you were going to be a homosexual you picked the right era to be one. It wasn't long ago you would of been burned at the stake or whatever else. You are crying about something you can't control while you sit in this town playing a card game for a living and eat for free. I don't feel sorry for you or your plight.

    It truly is amazing that this country actually won the war against the British. Not only did the British blunder the War but they outnumbered us in drastic numbers with a Navy that could not be stopped. The British had control of the Capital until a Storm pushed them back... a fucking storm!? It is another Miracle that the Germans didn't win WW2. The Germans destroyed 50% of the RAF and England was finished but they decide to bomb London instead of keeping the pressure on the airfields. Not that I would want the Axis win the War and I am thankful that they didn't but when you study the History of it you just can't believe they lost. Hitler basically lost a 4th quarter football game with a 3 touchdown lead and only 2 minutes to play. I think they were too busy making Hitlers Special MendleBread and that is what really lost them the War.

    Most of you people don't believe in God but when you look back at History and really dive into it you realize that Man isn't the only force at play.
    Last edited by monet; 06-20-2018 at 12:11 AM.

  3. #3
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    What did we do before the change of policy?

    It ssems to me that these illegal migrants are breaking the law and as such should be treated like criminals.

    In my town if a parent is arrested while in the company of their kid(s) the kid(s) never accompany the parent to jail; they are taken away and kept separately, as the jails aren't designed to house families.

    Why should these scoff-laws be treated any differently?
    What, Me Worry?

  4. #4
    Originally Posted by MisterV View Post
    What did we do before the change of policy?

    It ssems to me that these illegal migrants are breaking the law and as such should be treated like criminals.

    In my town if a parent is arrested while in the company of their kid(s) the kid(s) never accompany the parent to jail; they are taken away and kept separately, as the jails aren't designed to house families.

    Why should these scoff-laws be treated any differently?
    Am I to assume the V's are of Native American heritage? Or like the rest of us, somewhere along the line did a V ancestor make the journey to America looking for a better life for him and his family and future generations of his family, which would include yourself? That is a beautiful thing and that IS America. Now granted circumstances change, and we can no longer accept everyone that would like to come, but this is not the right way to handle things. There is right and there is wrong and there is decency. This is neither right nor decent, nor humane.

    We are literally yanking children that aren't even citizens of the US and placing them in cages like dogs. I suspect that the courts will soon rule this illegal, as many things that dictator Trump decides to do. We ARE a nation of Laws and the things our government is doing is not lawful.

    The current legal way to request asylum in this country is that you show up at the border, and make your claim. You are then given a court date and you make your case which is approved or rejected based on your circumstances. Under this policy people following the law, showing up at the border and requesting asylum are jailed and their children taken from them, unlawfully.

  5. #5
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    So what?

    Nobody asked them to come here.

    I don't care about them or their issues, nor do I want my taxes to be used to house and process them.

    If things are lousy in their country that's too bad, for them: not my problem.

    Wicked world.
    What, Me Worry?

  6. #6
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by MisterV View Post
    What did we do before the change of policy?

    It ssems to me that these illegal migrants are breaking the law and as such should be treated like criminals.

    In my town if a parent is arrested while in the company of their kid(s) the kid(s) never accompany the parent to jail; they are taken away and kept separately, as the jails aren't designed to house families.

    Why should these scoff-laws be treated any differently?
    Am I to assume the V's are of Native American heritage? Or like the rest of us, somewhere along the line did a V ancestor make the journey to America looking for a better life for him and his family and future generations of his family, which would include yourself? That is a beautiful thing and that IS America. Now granted circumstances change, and we can no longer accept everyone that would like to come, but this is not the right way to handle things. There is right and there is wrong and there is decency. This is neither right nor decent, nor humane.

    We are literally yanking children that aren't even citizens of the US and placing them in cages like dogs. I suspect that the courts will soon rule this illegal, as many things that dictator Trump decides to do. We ARE a nation of Laws and the things our government is doing is not lawful.

    The current legal way to request asylum in this country is that you show up at the border, and make your claim. You are then given a court date and you make your case which is approved or rejected based on your circumstances. Under this policy people following the law, showing up at the border and requesting asylum are jailed and their children taken from them, unlawfully.
    get off the fuckong soap box.
    Like V said......every day in every state in america some kid is being torn from his arrested parent and some of them are cared for by the state. Where were you commenting on the conditions these american citizens were enduring. I dont thibnk all those state institutions were "comfortable" or "nurturing". So where were the KJs of the usa crying for more humane treatment of the american children of lawbreakers.

    If a married couple from mexico live in nebraska and get arrested...they will have their children pulled from them as they sit in jail for whatever crime they both committed. So where is KJ the bleeding heart being an advocate for that child,

    Oh wait...these people KJ talks about,arent arrested in nebraska....they are arrsted at the border so there must be some special rules that apply to them over the mexicans in nebraska or New Jersey..

    this is the problem with people like KJ....this type of stuff happens hundreds of times a day spread out over the USA. Only here its happening in a small concentrated area and thats just not right when it happens in a small area at the border.

  7. #7
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    This is an example where the political angst the Left feels about Trump greatly exceeds common sense.

    The whole thing has been politicized; Trump to put pressure on Congress, the Left because they will use anything they can against Trump.
    What, Me Worry?

  8. #8
    People legally showing up at the border and requesting asylum are not being arrested. Only those caught illegally entering the country are arrested. There is a zero tolerance policy now whereas before only about 20% were prosecuted. Just prosecuting 20% didn't stem the flow so now it's zero tolerance.

    The crying little girl on the cover of Newsweek was not taken from her mother. Democrats don't care about the kids. They won't cooperate with Trump to end the immigration problem because they want the issue for the midterms. they want the kids in cages all the way to the election. They think it will help them but it won't. 70% of Americans want the border secured. That is to large a number for it to be all Trump voters.

    The lefty media plays up the chain link fences surrounding the kids. Take a look at the day cares and elementary schools around you if you want to see chain link fences. They are compounds today because of the threat of shooters.

    One thing the liberal media is not covering is the single men showing up at the border with a kid, not their own, in tow.
    Hate crime hoaxes? The left's demand for biggots greatly exceeds the supply.

  9. #9
    Liberalism is a disease. Plain and simple.

  10. #10
    I'm left of Marx, and I still don't understand how immigration became a left issue. I missed the memo, I guess. I miss a lot of memos.

    Just some notes: while it is within the rules of capitalism and journalism to use the cover Time magazine used, I would have vetoed it without a big asterisk next to the child and a note at the bottom of the cover saying, "This child was not separated from parent." Obviously, Time would not have gone for that. I'm hardcore. I want 100% straight literal reporting. No allegorical, metaphorical Hunter Thompson type (and I love HST) writing, where you have to guess if something really happened, belongs in Time magazine.

    The other thing -- separating families. While separating families is wrong, obviously, there is a longshot way this could backfire. If separating families is highlighted and becomes a gut reaction spasm kind of wrong in the eyes of everyone, then building a wall becomes a more "moral" thing to do if zero tolerance is maintained. So in a sense, it could fuel the rationale for building a wall, because that would prevent separating children from their families. The wall, previously irrational and obtuse, now can be possibly viewed in a more rational and humane light.

    I read a summary of recent studies that suggest IQ has been dropping in the US for decades, but nobody really wants to hear that. Why do I not find either surprising? Now, rightists will view that as signs immigration has dropped the national IQ, and leftists can argue the dropping of the national IQ has led to Trump's election. I'm going to piss everybody off and point out that both are likely true.
    Last edited by redietz; 06-23-2018 at 11:47 AM.

  11. #11
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    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    The other thing -- separating families. While separating families is wrong, obviously
    Huh?

    Gee, I must not have gotten the memo on that one.

    Out west when people break the law they go to jail, without their spouse and children accompanying them.

    If a US citizen is arrested and jailed while his wife and kids are with him in the car: guess what?

    Yeah, another solo trip to the hoosegow, sans dependents, which is as it should be.

    We jail and punish criminals, we don't coddle them.

    The asshats from south of the border trying to enter this great land of ours illegally are law breakers and should be treated no differently than US citizens who are arrested and detained: end of the fucking story.

    The Left, in complete disarray, will grab onto any piece of political flotsam to keep from sinking further into oblivion.
    Last edited by MisterV; 06-23-2018 at 06:03 PM.
    What, Me Worry?

  12. #12
    That depends, Mr. V, on the nature of the crime. If you get arrested for not wearing a seat belt or trespassing on posted land, nobody takes away your family. How does that relate? According to USA Today, check out the average fine people get for trespassing into this country. It's about as much as you get for not wearing a seatbelt. Possibly less.

    So the issue is where entering the country illegally falls on the legal transgression scale. If it's on the robbery/assault/murder end, then by all means, take away the kids. If it's on the not wearing a seatbelt/drove too fast/didn't fill out your census end of the scale, then obviously yanking a family away is wrong.

    Personally, I'm not big on the US as a charity as opposed to a country. The US doesn't owe Mexico or Honduras bottomless pockets to help people fleeing violence and poverty. The US does not have limitless resources.

    But I don't see the moral high ground for separating families due to a trespassing charge, which is what this is about.
    Last edited by redietz; 06-24-2018 at 03:37 AM.

  13. #13
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    I'm left of Marx, and I still don't understand how immigration became a left issue. I missed the memo, I guess. I miss a lot of memos.

    Just some notes: while it is within the rules of capitalism and journalism to use the cover Time magazine used, I would have vetoed it without a big asterisk next to the child and a note at the bottom of the cover saying, "This child was not separated from parent." Obviously, Time would not have gone for that. I'm hardcore. I want 100% straight literal reporting. No allegorical, metaphorical Hunter Thompson type (and I love HST) writing, where you have to guess if something really happened, belongs in Time magazine.

    The other thing -- separating families. While separating families is wrong, obviously, there is a longshot way this could backfire. If separating families is highlighted and becomes a gut reaction spasm kind of wrong in the eyes of everyone, then building a wall becomes a more "moral" thing to do if zero tolerance is maintained. So in a sense, it could fuel the rationale for building a wall, because that would prevent separating children from their families. The wall, previously irrational and obtuse, now can be possibly viewed in a more rational and humane light.

    I read a summary of recent studies that suggest IQ has been dropping in the US for decades, but nobody really wants to hear that. Why do I not find either surprising? Now, rightists will view that as signs immigration has dropped the national IQ, and leftists can argue the dropping of the national IQ has led to Trump's election. I'm going to piss everybody off and point out that both are likely true.
    Although I support trump in much of what he has done....I wonder why he never takes the opportunity to get the free publicity and address the nation. Lay out how floods of immigrants have diverted resources from our public schools who used to offer "honors programs" and advanced classes for the kids who wanted to learn, and dumped them in favor of "english as a second language" classes out of limited funds/necessity.And how our healthcare system is strained as well.
    Or address the nation about the Iran deal negation.....what was in the deal and how its not in the best interest of the USA to honor it.

    Its free commercial time that would bode him well when re-election campaigns start up. and equal time becomes an issue.

    Is it just his ego....I am the boss so I dont have to explain myself.???? He doesnt even need to take questions. Just address the american people from the Oval office. Totally free. And it would help him in the future.

  14. #14
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    That depends, Mr. V, on the nature of the crime. If you get arrested for not wearing a seat belt or trespassing on posted land, nobody takes away your family. How does that relate? According to USA Today, check out the average fine people get for trespassing into this country. It's about as much as you get for not wearing a seatbelt. Possibly less.

    So the issue is where entering the country illegally falls on the legal transgression scale. If it's on the robbery/assault/murder end, then by all means, take away the kids. If it's on the not wearing a seatbelt/drove too fast/didn't fill out your census end of the scale, then obviously yanking a family away is wrong.

    Personally, I'm not big on the US as a charity as opposed to a country. The US doesn't owe Mexico or Honduras bottomless pockets to help people fleeing violence and poverty. The US does not have limitless resources.

    But I don't see the moral high ground for separating families due to a trespassing charge, which is what this is about.
    I'm pretty sure people don't get a fine for "trespassing into this country". I'm actually pretty sure it's not even called trespassing.

    You won't get arrested for not wearing a seat-belt.

    If you are arrested, you are taken from your family. You get taken to your local jail where you end up behind bars....and your family is on the other side of those bars. It doesn't matter what you get arrested for doing.

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