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Thread: Wreck-reational Gambling

  1. #1
    This is my new term for what I previously referred to as "recreational gambling." The previous term was always in quotes because I have never really bought into the vibe of it, just like I never bought into 9/6 Jacks or Better as "full pay." The previous term left out the addictive spin. This new term does not.

    If any APs want to adopt my new term, please feel free.

  2. #2
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    This is my new term for what I previously referred to as "recreational gambling." The previous term was always in quotes because I have never really bought into the vibe of it, just like I never bought into 9/6 Jacks or Better as "full pay." The previous term left out the addictive spin. This new term does not.

    If any APs want to adopt my new term, please feel free.
    I remember years and years ago when I heard that 9/6 was a Full Pay game (10/6 was around at that time as well) and for awhile I disagreed but at that time when players cards first came about the card was giving high cash back and comp so it wasn't hard to adjust. You could also find quarter 9/6 100 play with monster promotions. Of course it wasn't long that they created the deuces wild game that was 100.76 but higher variance so I found myself playing that more so but if you wanted to play higher denominations and huge progressives it wasn't hard for the 9/6 to go way over 100%.

    I like your new term wreckreational though.

  3. #3
    I like the new term "wreck-reational gambling" as it applies to many, and unfortunately some on this forum, which is why they have turned so bitter (partially understandable). But I think there is room for both terms.

    My late partner, has a sister in Pennsylvania. She is the perfect example of a 'real' recreational (old term) gambler. She has a good job (100k) in the medical field, her husband's income 200k+ (architecture field). She goes to a casino, I think Sands in Pa twice a month on a weekend with a friend and usually losses in the neighborhood of $200 (occasionally wins something). And we have hosted her for 4-5 days each October, where she blows anywhere between $1000 and $2000 (one year won $2000). She justifies this as her recreational money, which is fair. Her husband, does not gamble, but he is a big golfer and spends about similar amounts on gold outings several times a month and golf trips 2-3 times a year, so it seems fair.

    Now unfortunately, while she is a perfect example of a true rec-reational gambler, she is a rarity, as most cross over into wreck-reational at least at times. Gambling is a highly addictive behavior. I don't blame the industry for that. But I do blame the industry for the lengths they go to 'prey' on players who have crossed over from rec-reational to "wreck-reational". Thinks like cashing paychecks and tax refund checks and social security checks back when they were paper checks. These are nasty predatory policies, not the behavior of an industry which is truly about responsible rec-reational gambling.

  4. #4
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Now unfortunately, while she is a perfect example of a true rec-reational gambler, she is a rarity, as most cross over into wreck-reational at least at times. Gambling is a highly addictive behavior. I don't blame the industry for that. But I do blame the industry for the lengths they go to 'prey' on players who have crossed over from rec-reational to "wreck-reational". Thinks like cashing paychecks and tax refund checks and social security checks back when they were paper checks. These are nasty predatory policies, not the behavior of an industry which is truly about responsible rec-reational gambling.
    Don't forget the pushing of the credit lines. I cannot recall seeing this in Vegas but I have certainly seen from many locals elsewhere signs advertising them in the casinos and promotions in mailers pushing the convenience and offering incentives for signing up.
    While I can understand the convenience of having a line for those traveling to destination casinos, I do not understand the point for a local. If you live there your bank's gotta be there too.

  5. #5
    You experts must be kidding--right? EVERYTHING a casino does is irresponsible towards addictive gambling behavior.

    Anyone who uses a casino floor ATM is a fool....and most likely a problem gambler. The same with cage check-cashiers, casino credit line power-gamblers, and credit card cash-advance jockeys. Forget the array of pathetic, weak excuses we hear from these idiots, like "I don't like carrying cash" and "I didn't have time to visit my bank" or "it's super convenient". These people ALL take cash to casinos, McFly. Then they lose it and need more; that's all it is. They're addicts and they're doing exactly what the casinos want and expect them to do, which of course, makes them the casinos' favorite and most important customers. My guess is most or all of you hot-shot WoVers fall into that category....if and when you ever go into casinos, that is.

    It's especially entertaining watching you clowns attempt to shuffle the gambling addict label away from yourselves by giving the obvious "I'm an expert on this subject because I see it happen to everyone else but me!" nonsense. From what I've seen here none of you have the discipline it takes to NOT be an addict. You can't stop talking about it, you make up stories about it when times are "slow", and you can't stand it when people don't talk about it like you want them to.

    DENIAL is the :#1 trait of liars. Are you feeling it?

  6. #6
    On the subject of gambling addiction: are full time AP's addicted to gambling?
    What, Me Worry?

  7. #7
    Originally Posted by MisterV View Post
    On the subject of gambling addiction: are full time AP's addicted to gambling?
    IMHO if an AP is profitable considering all of his gambling activities he cannot be considered an addicted gambler because the most important thing that identifies a person as an addicted gambler is the fact that he has lost great and significant sums of money which in turn has adversely affected his entire life.

    On the other hand, if an AP, for example, (and I don't think this is all that unusual) makes money as a skilled poker player and then loses all that he has won and much more playing craps with a disadvantage, then yes, he can be considered an addicted gambler.
    Last edited by Half Smoke; 06-26-2018 at 10:58 AM.
    please don't feed the trolls

  8. #8
    Originally Posted by MisterV View Post
    On the subject of gambling addiction: are full time AP's addicted to gambling?
    Some are and some are not. Let's not forget there are many AP's who go into AP because they were spending lots of time in the casinos losing. I see it much more in what we oftentimes refer to as machine hustlers and sclufflers. I have known guys who are very sucsessful but they always seem to have to be in action. Even if that means playing higher limit 9/6 to earn comps at break even they really dont need.

  9. #9
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    Originally Posted by MisterV View Post
    On the subject of gambling addiction: are full time AP's addicted to gambling?
    Some are and some are not. Let's not forget there are many AP's who go into AP because they were spending lots of time in the casinos losing. I see it much more in what we oftentimes refer to as machine hustlers and sclufflers. I have known guys who are very sucsessful but they always seem to have to be in action. Even if that means playing higher limit 9/6 to earn comps at break even they really dont need.
    Irrelevant.

    Every "AP" who prides him/herself on being one is 100% a problem gambler who will be totally addicted until they alter their approach to gambling. Why you ask? Simple common sense. AP's allow themselves to constantly be controlled by the casinos. You think all those lucrative-sounding promotions, tournaments & drawings are directed at tourists and down-on-life locals?

    Think again. Every casino has these promotions with the prime objective of roping in as many of these ap's as humanly possible, who by design will not only bring a large amount of cash in with them--they'll cash checks, use their casino credit lines, and even assault the ATM's with their colorful array of cash cards until they get one to work.

    I interviewed casino execs up & down the Strip and throughout the local casinos about their approach to VP-ap's in the early 2000's, and they all said the exact same thing without hesitation: AP's are the primary reason why the juicy promotions continue on.

    Now compare the truth to how ap's say they "hammer" these promos. By and large, it is the addict ap's who are getting hammered---over and over again. Just wait a few years and ask them nicely how their retirement income and lives are going. Of course, there's always the Bob Dancer model to follow: keep working because he can't stop playing, and since he pissed away most of his working life helping keep the LV casinos open, his retirement won't start until the moment he steps into his grave.

  10. #10
    Of course, the conundrum regarding the above post is what to believe. Let's quickly review some of the language. Argentino "interviewed casino execs up and down the strip and throughout the local casinos..." Now, the word "interviewed" does suggest these were not anonymous sources. Therefore, one would hope, as a means of verification (and Argentino does have occasional issues with verification) that a name or two would be dropped who might be alive today and willing to go on record regarding "they all said the exact same thing without hesitation: AP's are the primary reason why the juicy promotions continue on."

    Then, we have the seeming illogic. If the juicy promotions were so successful targeting APs, why have juicy promotions become an endangered species? That doesn't make sense. Did AP's die out, and take the juicy promotions with them? There does seem to be a faltering of the logic here. Unless, of course, there is a stealth population of Argentino disciples who hammered the juicy promotions and forced the casinos to cut them dramatically.

    Yes, that must be the ticket.

  11. #11
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    Think again. Every casino has these promotions with the prime objective of roping in as many of these ap's as humanly possible, who by design will not only bring a large amount of cash in with them--they'll cash checks, use their casino credit lines, and even assault the ATM's with their colorful array of cash cards until they get one to work.

    You're generalizing, painting all APs with the same brush. Surely there are some who match the profile you've created and just as surely there are others who are highly disciplined.
    please don't feed the trolls

  12. #12
    From what I have been reading lately non-AP gamblers seem to be having the biggest financial problems. AP's actually have mostly winning years(at least the ones who know what they are doing and do it right). I can't speak for all AP's. I know I don't have a gambling problem or addiction nor do many other AP's. Many AP's don't retire because they enjoy beating the casinos and its not like a job to them, it feels more like a hobby that makes money.

  13. #13
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    Of course, the conundrum regarding the above post is what to believe. Let's quickly review some of the language. Argentino "interviewed casino execs up and down the strip and throughout the local casinos..." Now, the word "interviewed" does suggest these were not anonymous sources. Therefore, one would hope, as a means of verification (and Argentino does have occasional issues with verification) that a name or two would be dropped who might be alive today and willing to go on record regarding "they all said the exact same thing without hesitation: AP's are the primary reason why the juicy promotions continue on."

    Then, we have the seeming illogic. If the juicy promotions were so successful targeting APs, why have juicy promotions become an endangered species? That doesn't make sense. Did AP's die out, and take the juicy promotions with them? There does seem to be a faltering of the logic here. Unless, of course, there is a stealth population of Argentino disciples who hammered the juicy promotions and forced the casinos to cut them dramatically.

    Yes, that must be the ticket.
    Ya, I was going to touch on this before when Singer claimed the Maxim (or whatever it was called the time) won money on that promo. If that's the case, why not keep running it? Why wouldn't all casinos who are in financial trouble run similar promotions day after day? Why do they stop promotions and change the rules sometimes within hours of running one?

    I'm fairly certain Johnathon Jossel admitted he made a mistake and they lost on the 28% JP bonus promo at the Plaza. 28% is low compared to many of the other similar type of promotions ( FYI the Bonus was given in FREE PLAY)

  14. #14
    There is nothing wrong with recreational gambling. Get off your soap boxes.

    Recreational gambling is not addicted gambling and that's the difference.

  15. #15
    It's good we have an authority on the subject of why recreational gambling is not addicted gambling. It spruces up the thread.

  16. #16
    Don't take it personally redietz (because you do take every disagreement personally and as an attack on your pristine reputation) but recreational gambling and addicted gambling are two separate things.

    You, editor Bob, are just trying to redefine it. Well the existing definition works just fine.

    "refreshment by means of some pastime, agreeable exercise, or the like."

    You write a lot about addicted gambling. To paraphrase a greater writer than you, why do you protest too much?

  17. #17
    I must ask you, redietz, how is it that someone who is so concerned about addictive gambling and even takes part in university studies about it and purportedly appears in gambling studies costing mucho bucks, also happens to be selling sports wagering tips?

  18. #18
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    There is nothing wrong with recreational gambling. Get off your soap boxes.

    Recreational gambling is not addicted gambling and that's the difference.
    I put up a list for you on one of the other threads. Read through that list and see how you rate.

    If your family members and or ex-wives/girlfriends complained about your gambling there is a good chance there's a problem.

    I would like to add to that list: If one THINKS they have a winning system that beats a -EV games and situations.

    It's your own business, either way, however, when someone spends so much time trying to debunk AP's and their claims who admits they have been gambling for years and in that time they have hit two 100k royals and some 20k's, but yet, never had a winning year.

    They should probably STFU about gambling and just stick to talking about what they know best, like running their infomercial business.

    it's too bad I didn't ask your son for the truth about "hitting 5 royals in one day and still lost" while he was still miffed at you. I have a feeling he would have laughed and said it was not true.

    I noticed he has been on the forum after that discussion about the 5 Royals and he has never backed up that claim.

    I have a feeling he doesn't even believe you saw 18 yo's in a row.

  19. #19
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    There is nothing wrong with recreational gambling. Get off your soap boxes.

    Recreational gambling is not addicted gambling and that's the difference.
    I put up a list for you on one of the other threads. Read through that list and see how you rate.

    If your family members and or ex-wives/girlfriends complained about your gambling there is a good chance there's a problem.

    I would like to add to that list: If one THINKS they have a winning system that beats a -EV games and situations.

    It's your own business, either way, however, when someone spends so much time trying to debunk AP's and their claims who admits they have been gambling for years and in that time they have hit two 100k royals and some 20k's, but yet, never had a winning year.

    They should probably STFU about gambling and just stick to talking about what they know best, like running their infomercial business.

    it's too bad I didn't ask your son for the truth about "hitting 5 royals in one day and still lost" while he was still miffed at you. I have a feeling he would have laughed and said it was not true.

    I noticed he has been on the forum after that discussion about the 5 Royals and he has never backed up that claim.

    I have a feeling he doesn't even believe you saw 18 yo's in a row.
    Maybe if Alan pays his kid what he owes the kid will backup his bullshit.

  20. #20
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    There is nothing wrong with recreational gambling. Get off your soap boxes.

    Recreational gambling is not addicted gambling and that's the difference.
    I put up a list for you on one of the other threads. Read through that list and see how you rate.

    If your family members and or ex-wives/girlfriends complained about your gambling there is a good chance there's a problem.

    I would like to add to that list: If one THINKS they have a winning system that beats a -EV games and situations.

    It's your own business, either way, however, when someone spends so much time trying to debunk AP's and their claims who admits they have been gambling for years and in that time they have hit two 100k royals and some 20k's, but yet, never had a winning year.

    They should probably STFU about gambling and just stick to talking about what they know best, like running their infomercial business.

    it's too bad I didn't ask your son for the truth about "hitting 5 royals in one day and still lost" while he was still miffed at you. I have a feeling he would have laughed and said it was not true.

    I noticed he has been on the forum after that discussion about the 5 Royals and he has never backed up that claim.

    I have a feeling he doesn't even believe you saw 18 yo's in a row.
    Maybe if Alan pays his kid what he owes the kid will backup his bullshit.
    AND GIVE UP HIS GAMBLING FUND? ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?

    You would have better luck getting money from a crackhead.

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