Wakeup and smell the coffee.

[kewlJ]

Yeah, who needs a job when you can gross $100K per year as a fulltime AP?...you'll be a billionaire (pre tax) in only 10000 years.

Single stupidest post you have ever made, coach belly. Please show me where any AP ever said their goal was to make a billion dollars?

But if you want to do "stupid" comments like this, I left a job making $17,000 a year to pursue a career in AP. At my old job it was going to take me 58,000 years to become a billionaire, As an AP it will take about 1/6th that time.

When I joined the AP community, I had a goal to make a million dollars in 10years. I posted this on several sites, like Qfit's blackjack site and I believe I reprinted at WoV. So I was just shy of my 21st birthday at the time and as I said, left a pretty dismal retail job making $17,000. And I had no idea of any kind of machine play AP (which has supplemented my earnings nicely for 8 years now), nor had any knowledge of any other kind of AP plays. Just card counting. It was really a plan to make 1 million dollars in 10 years via card counting.

I am in my 15th years now and have still not made that million dollars from card counting, as I am currently sitting at $937,000. I have made 1.2 million in total AP, but like I said this plan really didn't initially include those non-blackjack supplemental stuff. So that was my own much more realistic goal of a million dollars (from blackjack) which I will hit sometime in the next year or so.

So don't throw out complete nonsense like a billion dollars to make some stupid point, No one EVER said anything like that.

[mickeycrimm]

Oh, that. Cmon! I was serious!

Seriously stupid.

[coach belly]

So don't throw out complete nonsense like a billion dollars to make some stupid point, No one EVER said anything like that.

Get a clue, you fucking tewl...wake up and smell the coffee.

If it worked, these people would be billionaire and not here posting this bullshit!

[kewlJ]

Get a clue, you fucking tewl...wake up and smell the coffee.

It has been all of 8 hours since coach belly posted that "AP's are the main angry and miserable contributors here".

Yet it is coach belly who throws out the first insult and starts the name calling during otherwise civil discussions. I mean here is coach belly, asking questions, as part of the discussion and when he hears something that doesn't fit his narrative, immediately takes the low road. You are a class act, coach belly.

[jbjb]

Yeah, who needs a job when you can gross $100K per year as a fulltime AP?...you'll be a billionaire (pre tax) in only 10000 years.

Single stupidest post you have ever made, coach belly. Please show me where any AP ever said their goal was to make a billion dollars?

But if you want to do "stupid" comments like this, I left a job making $17,000 a year to pursue a career in AP. At my old job it was going to take me 58,000 years to become a billionaire, As an AP it will take about 1/6th that time.

When I joined the AP community, I had a goal to make a million dollars in 10years. I posted this on several sites, like Qfit's blackjack site and I believe I reprinted at WoV. So I was just shy of my 21st birthday at the time and as I said, left a pretty dismal retail job making $17,000. And I had no idea of any kind of machine play AP (which has supplemented my earnings nicely for 8 years now), nor had any knowledge of any other kind of AP plays. Just card counting. It was really a plan to make 1 million dollars in 10 years via card counting.

I am in my 15th years now and have still not made that million dollars from card counting, as I am currently sitting at $937,000. I have made 1.2 million in total AP, but like I said this plan really didn't initially include those non-blackjack supplemental stuff. So that was my own much more realistic goal of a million dollars (from blackjack) which I will hit sometime in the next year or so.

So don't throw out complete nonsense like a billion dollars to make some stupid point, No one EVER said anything like that.

With their flawless "systems", they should be able to make billions per year!!

[coach belly]

Yet it is coach belly who throws out the first insult and starts the name calling during otherwise civil discussions.

The first insult? Get a clue you fucking tewl...

Single stupidest post you have ever made, coach belly.

[coach belly]

So don't throw out complete nonsense like a billion dollars to make some stupid point, No one EVER said anything like that.

With their flawless "systems", they should be able to make billions per year!!

There you go, your AP brother is doubling-down on the billionaire nonsense he started.

[kewlJ]

Yet it is coach belly who throws out the first insult and starts the name calling during otherwise civil discussions.

The first insult? Get a clue you fucking tewl...

Single stupidest post you have ever made, coach belly.

There is a difference between attacking the statement and attacking the person. If you don't understand that, well that explains a lot.

It is the internet troll play book: when you are out of answer and ideas just attack the poster. Singer has done so for years. He has no answers so he attacks. Not surprised you are following in your idol's footsteps.

[coach belly]

There is a difference between attacking the statement and attacking the person.

It's an insult, especially since your guy brought up the billionaire nonsense.

And since you refuse to acknowledge and accept responsibility for hurling the first insult, you are a tewl.

Agreed?

[RS__]

In AP, you have to find some sort of an angle to win. Maybe it’s counting cards at blackjack, playing strong promotions, seeing a hole card, maybe vulturing slots, or something else. These things aren’t present 24/7. The only one that is, is CCing, but unless you’re dipping and dodging, you’re going to get found out.

For the system players, their games are widely available 24/7 and many with VERY high limits and many are available at the lowest limits.

If there was a system that actually worked, I’d be all over it. That’d be the greatest thing ever. If anyone has a system that actually works and will make money long term, I’ll pay some serious money for that information. At least more than slingshit’s $60 a session. Lolol that’s just retarded.

[LarryS]

There are 2 kinds of AP that do exist in my mind...and in reality if people open their eyes.

FIRST the BJ AP like KJ. It has been documented in books and movies based on books that card counting can be effective in taking money from the casinos. The math says its possible and the reality of the past says it has happened. So people can doubt kj specifically if they want...but they cant refute the reality that people are effectively using card counting to make a living.

Second.....the small return AP like MC who get the low hanging fruit of small jackpots at "must hit by" status. I never thought of that angle, but its certainly there for the taking. Its a reality. Now can MC make a living from it ...I have no idea...but those opportunities are reality.

So if you look at the reality, yes some APs are able to make some sort of a living. I dont know what the big skepticism is. Is it people who have worked their ass off for 40 years at a 9-5 job who dont want to face the fact that if they had the knowledge and the drive....they too could have counted cards 30 years ago. But its too late now....so they wont face the fact that they had the same opportunity as kj but passedon it. Its better to think that the opportunity never existed.

I dont agree with KJ on half the shit he says....but its pretty easy to believe he could have averaged 65k a year counting cards full time. Thats not a huge amount of money. Nothing I am envious of from where I sit.

And the money that MC makes ..i am not envious of as well. However itsnot hard to believe both these guys make a living doing what they say they do. Its nota stretch.

[mickeycrimm]

There are 2 kinds of AP that do exist in my mind...and in reality if people open their eyes.

FIRST the BJ AP like KJ. It has been documented in books and movies based on books that card counting can be effective in taking money from the casinos. The math says its possible and the reality of the past says it has happened. So people can doubt kj specifically if they want...but they cant refute the reality that people are effectively using card counting to make a living.

Second.....the small return AP like MC who get the low hanging fruit of small jackpots at "must hit by" status. I never thought of that angle, but its certainly there for the taking. Its a reality. Now can MC make a living from it ...I have no idea...but those opportunities are reality.

So if you look at the reality, yes some APs are able to make some sort of a living. I dont know what the big skepticism is. Is it people who have worked their ass off for 40 years at a 9-5 job who dont want to face the fact that if they had the knowledge and the drive....they too could have counted cards 30 years ago. But its too late now....so they wont face the fact that they had the same opportunity as kj but passedon it. Its better to think that the opportunity never existed.

I dont agree with KJ on half the shit he says....but its pretty easy to believe he could have averaged 65k a year counting cards full time. Thats not a huge amount of money. Nothing I am envious of from where I sit.

And the money that MC makes ..i am not envious of as well. However itsnot hard to believe both these guys make a living doing what they say they do. Its nota stretch.

Take a short term advantage play that has a $50 earn on 20 minutes seat time. Then do it ten times a day for 200 days out of the year. How much money are you making?

[Alan Mendelson]

Mickeycrimm I'm not asking monet to teach me anything.

Early on he posted photos of mailers with free play listed. Free play is great.

I asked him how much out of pocket real money had to be played before the free play kicked in. He won't answer.

I asked him when the free play will end if he only plays the free play. He won't answer.

Anyone trying to analyze the AP free play strategy needs to know those facts.

There's one reason monet won't respond: it costs a lot of out of pocket money before you get free play. He doesn't want to admit it. It's the flaw in his system.

[mickeycrimm]

Mickeycrimm I'm not asking monet to teach me anything.

Early on he posted photos of mailers with free play listed. Free play is great.

I asked him how much out of pocket real money had to be played before the free play kicked in. He won't answer.

I asked him when the free play will end if he only plays the free play. He won't answer.

Anyone trying to analyze the AP free play strategy needs to know those facts.

There's one reason monet won't respond: it costs a lot of out of pocket money before you get free play. He doesn't want to admit it. It's the flaw in his system.

Alan, I get roughly $500 a month in freeplay and some months a hell of a lot more. I worked two promotions in June where I was getting 4% freeplay on my action for 4 hours a week and 2% freeplay for 6 hours per week, and on the second promotion I got 4.1% freeplay on my action 7 hours a day for five days. How much longer will it last? Well it ended when the promotion was over. However, the two casinos involved still put about $50 a week in freeplay on my card plus I run .4% normal freeplay in both casinos.

I'm workiing a very big area from the northwest to the southwest to the midwest. I lose a lot of freeplay because I'm not there to run it off. They put it on the card every week and if I'm not there during that week period it expires. But they put it on for the next week so when I show up I have freeplay to run off. But I'm not going to drive 700 miles to pick up $30 in freeplay. If it's on my card the next time I'm through the area fine, I'll take it. But I will go out of my way on the promotions I listed above.

I'll even post a pic of one freeplay gig thats torched out.

[mickeycrimm]

Here's the pic of the Dealer's Angel BJ console I got the 4% freeplay for 2 hours on Friday nights, 2 hours on Saturday nights, and 2% for 6 hours on Sunday. It's 3:2 BJ, LS, Double on any two, DAS, H17. The Wizards calculator put the game at 99.43%. Plus the game is countable but has low penetration, 38.5%. I used the Wizards basic strategy for 4 or more decks plus Illustrious 18 on the game. You can bet from $1 to $100.

Take a close look at the pic and see if you can figure out which casino it is in. Plus, per the 2nd photo, you can see that the other players hands appear in your screen so the game is easy to count.

[mickeycrimm]

Mickeycrimm I'm not asking monet to teach me anything.

Early on he posted photos of mailers with free play listed. Free play is great.

I asked him how much out of pocket real money had to be played before the free play kicked in. He won't answer.

I asked him when the free play will end if he only plays the free play. He won't answer.

Anyone trying to analyze the AP free play strategy needs to know those facts.

There's one reason monet won't respond: it costs a lot of out of pocket money before you get free play. He doesn't want to admit it. It's the flaw in his system.

Alan, in most cases my freeplay is generated on games I have an advantage on so I'm making money while generating the freeplay. And I run the freeplay off incrementally on games I have an advantage on so I'm capturing 100% of the freeplay.

[LarryS]

There are 2 kinds of AP that do exist in my mind...and in reality if people open their eyes.

FIRST the BJ AP like KJ. It has been documented in books and movies based on books that card counting can be effective in taking money from the casinos. The math says its possible and the reality of the past says it has happened. So people can doubt kj specifically if they want...but they cant refute the reality that people are effectively using card counting to make a living.

Second.....the small return AP like MC who get the low hanging fruit of small jackpots at "must hit by" status. I never thought of that angle, but its certainly there for the taking. Its a reality. Now can MC make a living from it ...I have no idea...but those opportunities are reality.

So if you look at the reality, yes some APs are able to make some sort of a living. I dont know what the big skepticism is. Is it people who have worked their ass off for 40 years at a 9-5 job who dont want to face the fact that if they had the knowledge and the drive....they too could have counted cards 30 years ago. But its too late now....so they wont face the fact that they had the same opportunity as kj but passedon it. Its better to think that the opportunity never existed.

I dont agree with KJ on half the shit he says....but its pretty easy to believe he could have averaged 65k a year counting cards full time. Thats not a huge amount of money. Nothing I am envious of from where I sit.

And the money that MC makes ..i am not envious of as well. However itsnot hard to believe both these guys make a living doing what they say they do. Its nota stretch.

Take a short term advantage play that has a $50 earn on 20 minutes seat time. Then do it ten times a day for 200 days out of the year. How much money are you making?

I see and believe your examples. But I have casinos in reno that are the size of the small casinos you viisit off the beaten trail. And sometimes with alot of miles between the next casino, And I also realize that you may walk into a casino and have one , 2 or zero of these opportunities that you look for. So when you try to sell me the bill of goods with the "per hour" crap...thats where I get off the bus. Because you also have to calculate the hours spent driving to your "job" and the hours waisted when you arrive at a casino that is dry of real opportunity at the moment you arrive. And the the time it takes to get to the next casino that may or may not be dry of opportunity. So that "per hour" crap is great when you find a bonanza of opportunity in one place or in a small geographic area. But then there is the other days when opportunity is just missed and the casinos are dry.

You have to figure all that into the "per hour"

[mickeycrimm]

You're right. My seattime in Montana averages to $140 an hour. But you are right, that "per hour" is crap. I only get in about 4 hours a day seat time. It sounds like I'm making 1K a day. The truth is I spend about 4 hours a day looking for the advantages. So I'm so very sorry if I've mislead anyone. I'm just a poor hack that makes only $500 a day. I guess I'll just have to make do with that.

[tableplay]

There are 2 kinds of AP that do exist in my mind...and in reality if people open their eyes.

FIRST the BJ AP like KJ. It has been documented in books and movies based on books that card counting can be effective in taking money from the casinos. The math says its possible and the reality of the past says it has happened. So people can doubt kj specifically if they want...but they cant refute the reality that people are effectively using card counting to make a living.

Second.....the small return AP like MC who get the low hanging fruit of small jackpots at "must hit by" status. I never thought of that angle, but its certainly there for the taking. Its a reality. Now can MC make a living from it ...I have no idea...but those opportunities are reality.

So if you look at the reality, yes some APs are able to make some sort of a living. I dont know what the big skepticism is. Is it people who have worked their ass off for 40 years at a 9-5 job who dont want to face the fact that if they had the knowledge and the drive....they too could have counted cards 30 years ago. But its too late now....so they wont face the fact that they had the same opportunity as kj but passedon it. Its better to think that the opportunity never existed.

I dont agree with KJ on half the shit he says....but its pretty easy to believe he could have averaged 65k a year counting cards full time. Thats not a huge amount of money. Nothing I am envious of from where I sit.

And the money that MC makes ..i am not envious of as well. However itsnot hard to believe both these guys make a living doing what they say they do. Its nota stretch.

Take a short term advantage play that has a $50 earn on 20 minutes seat time. Then do it ten times a day for 200 days out of the year. How much money are you making?

I see and believe your examples. But I have casinos in reno that are the size of the small casinos you viisit off the beaten trail. And sometimes with alot of miles between the next casino, And I also realize that you may walk into a casino and have one , 2 or zero of these opportunities that you look for. So when you try to sell me the bill of goods with the "per hour" crap...thats where I get off the bus. Because you also have to calculate the hours spent driving to your "job" and the hours waisted when you arrive at a casino that is dry of real opportunity at the moment you arrive. And the the time it takes to get to the next casino that may or may not be dry of opportunity. So that "per hour" crap is great when you find a bonanza of opportunity in one place or in a small geographic area. But then there is the other days when opportunity is just missed and the casinos are dry.

You have to figure all that into the "per hour"

This is the Golden Age. IGT (and others) is putting out so many different machines with memory left over from the previous player(s), and in so much quantity, that it would very unusual for Mickey or any other AP machine player to hit a dry spot.

[pepe]

I never thought video blackjack would actually be countable, I figured with a video version you could reshuffle every hand without slowing down the game so there would be no reason to offer any penetration at all.