Wakeup and smell the coffee.

[pepe]

Take a short term advantage play that has a $50 earn on 20 minutes seat time. Then do it ten times a day for 200 days out of the year. How much money are you making?

I see and believe your examples. But I have casinos in reno that are the size of the small casinos you viisit off the beaten trail. And sometimes with alot of miles between the next casino, And I also realize that you may walk into a casino and have one , 2 or zero of these opportunities that you look for. So when you try to sell me the bill of goods with the "per hour" crap...thats where I get off the bus. Because you also have to calculate the hours spent driving to your "job" and the hours waisted when you arrive at a casino that is dry of real opportunity at the moment you arrive. And the the time it takes to get to the next casino that may or may not be dry of opportunity. So that "per hour" crap is great when you find a bonanza of opportunity in one place or in a small geographic area. But then there is the other days when opportunity is just missed and the casinos are dry.

You have to figure all that into the "per hour"

This is the Golden Age. IGT (and others) is putting out so many different machines with memory left over from the previous player(s), and in so much quantity, that it would very unusual for Mickey or any other AP machine player to hit a dry spot.

IGT buying Spielo (or was it the other way around) is the best thing to happen for AP in my short career.

[Rob.Singer]

If there was a system that actually worked, I’d be all over it. That’d be the greatest thing ever. If anyone has a system that actually works and will make money long term, I’ll pay some serious money for that information. At least more than slingshit’s $60 a session. Lolol that’s just retarded.

I have a "system" that actually wins RS__, and it does make good money "long term". But you never bother to understand it nor try to understand it. And because it's not "AP" you fear it since you can't locate it in the math books.

So are you willing to pay me serious money to learn it? But here's the catch--I don't want or need you to pay me anything to learn it....I will teach you everything about it for free and be there to answer questions as required.

Are you as real as you say you are?

[Rob.Singer]

You're right. My seattime in Montana averages to $140 an hour. But you are right, that "per hour" is crap. I only get in about 4 hours a day seat time. It sounds like I'm making 1K a day. The truth is I spend about 4 hours a day looking for the advantages. So I'm so very sorry if I've mislead anyone. I'm just a poor hack that makes only $500 a day. I guess I'll just have to make do with that.

Mickey you're so full of it and the low-class fantasy you want to be living. First it was $100k/year, then it was "I win in every casino I play with an edge in" and now it's a simple stupid "$500/casino visit".

We get that you have no life, no family, and no dental plan....and never have. But do you really get your rocks off trying to believe others believe your two-bit bum stories? You notice posters rarely comment on your bs. That's because they truly feel sorry for you, as I do.

[AxelWolf]

If there was a system that actually worked, I’d be all over it. That’d be the greatest thing ever. If anyone has a system that actually works and will make money long term, I’ll pay some serious money for that information. At least more than slingshit’s $60 a session. Lolol that’s just retarded.

I have a "system" that actually wins RS__, and it does make good money "long term". But you brother understand it nor try to understand it. And because it's not "AP" you fear it since you can't locate it in the math books.

So are you willing to pay me serious money to learn it? But here's the catch--I don't want it need you to pay me anything to learn it....I will teach you everything about it for free and be there to answer questions as required.

Are you as real as you say you are?

Let me guess. He has to use his own money when you are teaching him?

[quahaug]

Mickey, was the promo 4% free play casino wide at certain hours?

[Alan Mendelson]

AxelWolf raises an interesting question. He wrote "Let me guess. He has to use his own money when you are teaching him?"

I have some questions: is the student observing Rob play? Or is the student asking Rob to help him win when he, the student, plays?

Do other VP experts allow you to observe their play? Do they charge you for the privilege? Do they charge you when you use your own money?

[Rob.Singer]

If there was a system that actually worked, I’d be all over it. That’d be the greatest thing ever. If anyone has a system that actually works and will make money long term, I’ll pay some serious money for that information. At least more than slingshit’s $60 a session. Lolol that’s just retarded.

I have a "system" that actually wins RS__, and it does make good money "long term". But you brother understand it nor try to understand it. And because it's not "AP" you fear it since you can't locate it in the math books.

So are you willing to pay me serious money to learn it? But here's the catch--I don't want it need you to pay me anything to learn it....I will teach you everything about it for free and be there to answer questions as required.

Are you as real as you say you are?

Let me guess. He has to use his own money when you are teaching him?

That's always up to the "student". The most popular way has been we go 50-50. And the student can choose whether to play the limits I have or to play the strategy at 1c thru $1 instead of $1 thru $100 while in training.

[coach belly]

Let me guess. He has to use his own money when you are teaching him?

I'll let RS use my money if he agrees to sit for VP training with Rob Singer.

[Rob.Singer]

AxelWolf raises an interesting question. He wrote "Let me guess. He has to use his own money when you are teaching him?"

I have some questions: is the student observing Rob play? Or is the student asking Rob to help him win when he, the student, plays?

Do other VP experts allow you to observe their play? Do they charge you for the privilege? Do they charge you when you use your own money?

Question answered above.

I always make the student play all hands. More often than not the student gets aggravated a bit because I stop them in order to explain things they may have missed, and I am VERY comprehensive. Because many are ap's, they're used to pounding away as fast as they can in order to get to that next hit of intermittent satisfaction that their addiction has led them to. My strategy is far more complex than simple ap/optimal play only. It takes them some time to get used to that, and it's why only the best of the best succeed. I can tell within five minutes if the player has the aptitude to excel, and if they don't I end the session.

Dancer charges $250/hour for personal training either at machines or via email or phone. That's what losing players do. And he looks like hell all over. I'm still in workout shape.

[regnis]

Let me guess. He has to use his own money when you are teaching him?

I'll let RS use my money if he agrees to sit for VP training with Rob Singer.

I'll pay Alan to video it.

[coach belly]

Let me guess. He has to use his own money when you are teaching him?

I'll let RS use my money if he agrees to sit for VP training with Rob Singer.

I'll pay Alan to video it.

Who will pay Slappy to edit the video? I read somewhere that he expects $4K per hour.

[Keystone]

Let me guess. He has to use his own money when you are teaching him?

I'll let RS use my money if he agrees to sit for VP training with Rob Singer.

Are you still pining to meet strange dudes off the internet?....Will someone please meet this clown so he will stop humiliating himself

[LarryS]

You're right. My seattime in Montana averages to $140 an hour. But you are right, that "per hour" is crap. I only get in about 4 hours a day seat time. It sounds like I'm making 1K a day. The truth is I spend about 4 hours a day looking for the advantages. So I'm so very sorry if I've mislead anyone. I'm just a poor hack that makes only $500 a day. I guess I'll just have to make do with that.

there it is again. no mention of losing days. Just making 160 per hour, working 4 hours a day, and takiing home 500 daily.

no losing. No driving and spending 50 dollars in gas and finding nothing of value waiting for you. Its all in the positive of 160 per hour and 500 per day.

Even KJ talks about losing streaks. His life has the ring of honesty.

thats why I doubt the validity of the claims of mc about his life....he leaves out the downside.. Its all peaches and cream. Its 160 per hour. If he is on SS that would be a problem to admit that

[kewlJ]

there it is again. no mention of losing days. Just making 160 per hour, working 4 hours a day, and takiing home 500 daily.

no losing. No driving and spending 50 dollars in gas and finding nothing of value waiting for you. Its all in the positive of 160 per hour and 500 per day.

Even KJ talks about losing streaks. His life has the ring of honesty.

thats why I doubt the validity of the claims of mc about his life....he leaves out the downside.. Its all peaches and cream. Its 160 per hour. If he is on SS that would be a problem to admit that

2 comments, LarryS.

First I don't think it is really fair to discuss what I do, blackjack card counting, with what mickeycrimm and other machine AP's do, with regards to variance, and losing periods. Mickey is seeking out and finding mostly all +EV plays. Every play he does is +EV. I play an initial -EV game and turn it +EV by betting more in those player advantageous situations. There is very high variance, including reasonably long down swings associated with this kind of card counting small edge AP play. I would expect mickey and others to have less....some, but less variance and down swings.

Second, I thank you for the kind words in this post and your previous post last night, LarryS. You make some good points that there are some folks that just don't like me. Some think I am arrogant. Some probably hold personal issues like my sexuality against me. Alan holds my age against me. Every now and then someone brings up the death incident from another site almost 10 years ago, so some still hold that against me. So for whatever reason, some people just don't like me very much (right MrV?) No doubt some of that is on me.

But regardless of how people feel about me personally (as personal as it can be on an internet forum where we haven't met), I have always tried to share my experiences and AP journey accurately and honestly. I am pleased that you recognize that and it comes through. So thank you for acknowledging that LarryS.

[RS__]

If there was a system that actually worked, I’d be all over it. That’d be the greatest thing ever. If anyone has a system that actually works and will make money long term, I’ll pay some serious money for that information. At least more than slingshit’s $60 a session. Lolol that’s just retarded.

I have a "system" that actually wins RS__, and it does make good money "long term". But you never bother to understand it nor try to understand it. And because it's not "AP" you fear it since you can't locate it in the math books.

So are you willing to pay me serious money to learn it? But here's the catch--I don't want or need you to pay me anything to learn it....I will teach you everything about it for free and be there to answer questions as required.

Are you as real as you say you are?

This argument has been drawn out way too many times. I'm not interested in your strategy unless you can prove it works.

I've heard plenty of people at the tables say they're good/great/the-best at X game. I'm not interested in taking someone's word for their strategy working.

I've seen plenty of people win a lot of money just because they got lucky, even though they were playing a shit game and terrible bets or strategy.

I've seen people play really good games and lose their ass. I've done so myself on some good plays.

I'm not interested in winning based on luck. What if I'm an unlucky person?

If you can show me using a provable way your strategy works and makes money, then I'll pay you a good amount. It would need to either use proper logic, math, and/or simulation (although usually all three go hand in hand, where each back up the other).


How about this, at least throw me a bone and pretend to try -- How often should one expect to win (end a session) while at the $1 level? $2 level? $5? $10? $25? Higher? How likely are you to bust through 3 session bankrolls? How likely is one expected to win in a session?

[LarryS]

there it is again. no mention of losing days. Just making 160 per hour, working 4 hours a day, and takiing home 500 daily.

no losing. No driving and spending 50 dollars in gas and finding nothing of value waiting for you. Its all in the positive of 160 per hour and 500 per day.

Even KJ talks about losing streaks. His life has the ring of honesty.

thats why I doubt the validity of the claims of mc about his life....he leaves out the downside.. Its all peaches and cream. Its 160 per hour. If he is on SS that would be a problem to admit that

2 comments, LarryS.

First I don't think it is really fair to discuss what I do, blackjack card counting, with what mickeycrimm and other machine AP's do, with regards to variance, and losing periods. Mickey is seeking out and finding mostly all +EV plays. Every play he does is +EV. I play an initial -EV game and turn it +EV by betting more in those player advantageous situations. There is very high variance, including reasonably long down swings associated with this kind of card counting small edge AP play. I would expect mickey and others to have less....some, but less variance and down swings.

Second, I thank you for the kind words in this post and your previous post last night, LarryS. You make some good points that there are some folks that just don't like me. Some think I am arrogant. Some probably hold personal issues like my sexuality against me. Alan holds my age against me. Every now and then someone brings up the death incident from another site almost 10 years ago, so some still hold that against me. So for whatever reason, some people just don't like me very much (right MrV?) No doubt some of that is on me.

But regardless of how people feel about me personally (as personal as it can be on an internet forum where we haven't met), I have always tried to share my experiences and AP journey accurately and honestly. I am pleased that you recognize that and it comes through. So thank you for acknowledging that LarryS.

a person can still have losing day playing positive EV. Just as you can lose at a BJ table when the shoe is in your favor.

I dont believe MC never has a losing day. Or never drives 300 miles to get shit opportunities that cost him gas and wear and tear on his car as well as out of pocket living expenses. So I can compare him to you in that as opposed to all other jobs people have in the world....AP is one of those jobs where you can lose money after a days work.

[MisterV]

So for whatever reason, some people just don't like me very much (right MrV?)

I do not dislike you; no, we won't swap spit or sing "Kumbaya" around the camp fire, but I bear you no true animus.

Your homosexuality is a non-factor with me; hell, two gay guys moved in next store, got married, and we get along just fine.

My only real criticism of you would be your flair for the dramatic, your desire for attention: you compete head to head with alan in that department.

I happen to believe (and enjoy reading) your posts about AP, btw.

[mickeycrimm]

there it is again. no mention of losing days. Just making 160 per hour, working 4 hours a day, and takiing home 500 daily.

no losing. No driving and spending 50 dollars in gas and finding nothing of value waiting for you. Its all in the positive of 160 per hour and 500 per day.

Even KJ talks about losing streaks. His life has the ring of honesty.

thats why I doubt the validity of the claims of mc about his life....he leaves out the downside.. Its all peaches and cream. Its 160 per hour. If he is on SS that would be a problem to admit that

2 comments, LarryS.

First I don't think it is really fair to discuss what I do, blackjack card counting, with what mickeycrimm and other machine AP's do, with regards to variance, and losing periods. Mickey is seeking out and finding mostly all +EV plays. Every play he does is +EV. I play an initial -EV game and turn it +EV by betting more in those player advantageous situations. There is very high variance, including reasonably long down swings associated with this kind of card counting small edge AP play. I would expect mickey and others to have less....some, but less variance and down swings.

Second, I thank you for the kind words in this post and your previous post last night, LarryS. You make some good points that there are some folks that just don't like me. Some think I am arrogant. Some probably hold personal issues like my sexuality against me. Alan holds my age against me. Every now and then someone brings up the death incident from another site almost 10 years ago, so some still hold that against me. So for whatever reason, some people just don't like me very much (right MrV?) No doubt some of that is on me.

But regardless of how people feel about me personally (as personal as it can be on an internet forum where we haven't met), I have always tried to share my experiences and AP journey accurately and honestly. I am pleased that you recognize that and it comes through. So thank you for acknowledging that LarryS.

a person can still have losing day playing positive EV. Just as you can lose at a BJ table when the shoe is in your favor.

I dont believe MC never has a losing day. Or never drives 300 miles to get shit opportunities that cost him gas and wear and tear on his car as well as out of pocket living expenses. So I can compare him to you in that as opposed to all other jobs people have in the world....AP is one of those jobs where you can lose money after a days work.

Redietz is right. The less you know about something the more you talk about it. The thing is....I've already explained the situation in Montana many times. It obviously went over your head. I've already explained there are 1700 casinos in Montana. You think I drive 300 miles to "a casino?" Sure, there is distance between the towns but once I get into town there is a cluster of casinos in the downtown area, a dozen casinos along a 1 mile stretch, or 30 casinos along a 3 mile stretch, and intersections with a casino on every corner.

Boz just took a Montana vacation for the first time and one of the things he said to me was "There's a casino on every corner." I gave him a long list of games to look at with a clinic on some of the easier ones. It was up to him whether he wanted to play or not. I have no idea if he did. We haven't talked since he got back home.

[coach belly]

I'm not interested in your strategy unless you can prove it works.

If you can show me using a provable way your strategy works and makes money, then I'll pay you a good amount.

And here we have a chicken-shit self-proclaimed AP passing on a free roll.

Singer's willing to show you his strategies for free, but explain again how it would typically work?

The system player reveals his strategies up front, proving their worth, and then you pay him afterwards if he can manage to collect?

[mickeycrimm]

I dont believe MC never has a losing day. Or never drives 300 miles to get shit opportunities that cost him gas and wear and tear on his car as well as out of pocket living expenses. So I can compare him to you in that as opposed to all other jobs people have in the world....AP is one of those jobs where you can lose money after a days work.

Low risk/high reward plays have always been my niche. That's $500 a day concentrated into 120 days a year. Once I knock a town down I have to give it a couple months soak time for the plays to build back up. If I try to work it more than that my daily rate starts to suffer. I'm working more for the same amount of money on a yearly basis. So I don't do that. Nowadays I head on out of state for awhile.

Larry, it is not a requirement that you believe me. Think whatever you want. In the end I don't care. And, oh yes, very rare to have a losing day.