Challenge to Singer / Argentino

[Alan Mendelson]

I think you can file Schedule Cs as a carpenter and as a Uber driver and as a gambler and as a dog walking service all in the same year without any one of them being your primary source of income.

If the requirement is that any profession must be your primary source then what do you do with the income and deductions for your other businesses?

Would one of you experts answer that?

[Rob.Singer]

Rob Singer, since you have been making extraordinary claims for years, it is not my obligation to jump through hoops. But $114,600 in mutual escrow is acceptable. Let me know where and roughly when you want to meet.

In response to Kim Lee's first post Rob made a post demanding money be put in escrow. The next day Kim Lee makes his 2nd post as you can see above. Kim Lee is obviously accepting Rob's challenge. And he says money in escrow is acceptable.

That's when Rob starts to do the tap dance. He says Kim Lee made the challenge therefore he (Kim Lee) must be the first to put money in escrow. NO HELL NO ROB!!! YOU WERE THE ONE WHO MADE THE CHALLENGE. KIM LEE DID NOT MAKE A CHALLENGE. HE ACCEPTED YOUR CHALLENGE!!!!

The only thing negotiable is the amount in escrow. Anyone that says Kim Lee made the challenge is a complete idiot.

ROB, YOU MADE THE CHALLENGE. SOMEONE ACCEPTED.

And since you say that whoever makes the challenge must put their money in escrow first, get to it!! PUT YOUR FRICKIN' MONEY IN ESCROW.

Typical school dropout spin.

Kim made the challenge with zero terms. I educated him on that. And you keep dodging the #1 point that he who challenges deposits the verifiable escrow prior to the other party's acceptance he decline. And just like you claimed you'd never go for an 8:1 bet, I'd never let the fool challenge me with an escrow deficient by a factor of 8:1.

Keep letting people see you put your foot in your mouth mickey!

In this case, Kim's both a coward and stupid....and leave it to you to praise him for it

[Rob.Singer]

Re: my deductions on schedule C for many facets of my spending life that I took: these, again, were all approved in audits because they were interpreted as the IRS manual interprets them. Try it sometime you poor little fools. It's the ultimate AP move. And Alan, we paid plenty of taxes when I filed Schedule C. There was plenty of other income besides gambling each year.

The above statement is highly suspicious. The IRS is very strict on who can file as a professional gambler. It has to be your primary source of income. Since, after expenses, Rob had no income from video poker, why did the IRS allow him to file as a professional gamber when he had other income? Highly suspicious.

Not at all likely in light of his claim to have lost the previous five years or more as an alleged "advantage player." Presumably he would have had to offset the wins the previous five years with detailed records of losses, since his losses were substantial (200K or more). He must have rung up a boatload of wins with accompanying W2Gs, assuming he was playing 98 to 99% video poker. Detailed records of losses would have been required.

So to start off claiming "professional" status the following year, he would have had to demonstrate why or how his approach had been and would continue to be different from what he had done before. Or, conversely, he would have to have entered into a partnership with someone, or started a gaming entity, and brought another individual into it with a proven track record of winning so as to explain why or how he would suddenly qualify as a "professional."

Argentino knows this, of course. That's why no tax returns to Mr. Mendelson. They would either put the lie to the entire story or reveal another party as the rationale for the sudden ability to file as a professional.

Fun watching you and mickey continue to make up false stories just because you're forced to keep witnessing me pick off your "ap's" one by one.

[Rob.Singer]

Ok, I have had enough of this nonsense. It has been a year now of this fraud making his mathematically impossible claims of making first 900K, now up to 1.5 million while playing negative expectation video poker. And at the same time, tearing down my and other AP's claims.

It is time to put your money where you mouth is.

Singer / Argentino now claims he has made 1.5 million playing negative expectation video poker.

I claim I have made a total of 1.2 million in my AP career ($938,000 from blackjack).

I propose we each deposit $100,000 into escrow with a top public audit firm. The Audit firm will review tax records for the years in question and provide an accurate amount that we each have won, reported and paid taxes on. Whoever is closest wins and will receive the entire $200,00 placed in escrow, less the audit firm fees.

Short and sweet. If this is too high stakes for you Singer / Argentino, perhaps you can get, slingshot, coach belly, Alan and some of your other supporters to throw in with you. I don't care how you go about it as long as you have 100k, to deposit in escrow. (your EBT card funds not acceptable)

I don't want to him and haw talk about this for weeks on end. I am prepared to do this immediately. I can deposit my escrow amount as early as Monday, July 9, 2018.

My tax guy has recommended Tompkins and Peters, CPA Audit here in Las Vegas, a well know tax audit firm with 30 years experience and a solid reputation. Neither I nor my tax representative is associated with Tompkins and Peters. If you are uncomfortable with this particular firm, I am sure we can find another that we both are comfortable with. But again I am not interested in playing you little internet troll / stalling games. I want this done now! In the next week.

Awaiting your reply big shot.

Bump. This was the very first post in this thread. As you can see KJ challenged Rob to a bet. That was three weeks ago. Rob has not accepted the bet. Rob, who did you say was chickenshit?

Mickey, try as you may from the cowardly sidelines.....I have no interest in anything Jew says or does. I got to know everything about him two days after he threatened me and he know it. Nothing about him is remarkable and anything he has about himself that I'm unaware of wouldn't interest me in the least.

He was first to call me out on my play strategy, so I'd expect him to be first in line to represent the "ap's" when my official challenge goes public in LV.

And BTW, deech got it right. Kim proposed a bet out if nowhere, so it was his to wimp out of.

Whatdayou think of dem apples mickey

[mickeycrimm]

I think you can file Schedule Cs as a carpenter and as a Uber driver and as a gambler and as a dog walking service all in the same year without any one of them being your primary source of income.

If the requirement is that any profession must be your primary source then what do you do with the income and deductions for your other businesses?

Would one of you experts answer that?

Geez, dude. What? Do you just like to fuck with people? Professional Gambling is a totally different class of occupation than being a carpenter or plumber. The IRS has been around and around with people claiming to be professional gamblers. To many bullshit artists. So they have strict restrictions on allowing people to file as professional gamblers.

[mickeycrimm]

Rob Singer, since you have been making extraordinary claims for years, it is not my obligation to jump through hoops. But $114,600 in mutual escrow is acceptable. Let me know where and roughly when you want to meet.

In response to Kim Lee's first post Rob made a post demanding money be put in escrow. The next day Kim Lee makes his 2nd post as you can see above. Kim Lee is obviously accepting Rob's challenge. And he says money in escrow is acceptable.

That's when Rob starts to do the tap dance. He says Kim Lee made the challenge therefore he (Kim Lee) must be the first to put money in escrow. NO HELL NO ROB!!! YOU WERE THE ONE WHO MADE THE CHALLENGE. KIM LEE DID NOT MAKE A CHALLENGE. HE ACCEPTED YOUR CHALLENGE!!!!

The only thing negotiable is the amount in escrow. Anyone that says Kim Lee made the challenge is a complete idiot.

ROB, YOU MADE THE CHALLENGE. SOMEONE ACCEPTED.

And since you say that whoever makes the challenge must put their money in escrow first, get to it!! PUT YOUR FRICKIN' MONEY IN ESCROW.

Typical school dropout spin.

Kim made the challenge with zero terms. I educated him on that. And you keep dodging the #1 point that he who challenges deposits the verifiable escrow prior to the other party's acceptance he decline. And just like you claimed you'd never go for an 8:1 bet, I'd never let the fool challenge me with an escrow deficient by a factor of 8:1.

Keep letting people see you put your foot in your mouth mickey!

In this case, Kim's both a coward and stupid....and leave it to you to praise him for it

As you all can see Rob had no intention of ever making a bet. He's nothing but smoke and mirrors. It's plain for everyone to see that Kim Lee did not challenge Rob to a bet. All he did was accept Rob's proposition. Kim Lee has made only five posts so it is very easy to go over them and see for yourself.

Rob's proposition was designed not to get any takers. Not a lot of people around that would accept multiple times the liablity of the opponent? However, Kim Lee did. So Rob has to go into a tap dance to get out of making the bet. And that is to say Kim Lee challenged him. It's a flat out lie. All Kim Lee did was accept Rob's proposition.

Rob don't you have ANY scruples?

[mickeycrimm]

Ok, I have had enough of this nonsense. It has been a year now of this fraud making his mathematically impossible claims of making first 900K, now up to 1.5 million while playing negative expectation video poker. And at the same time, tearing down my and other AP's claims.

It is time to put your money where you mouth is.

Singer / Argentino now claims he has made 1.5 million playing negative expectation video poker.

I claim I have made a total of 1.2 million in my AP career ($938,000 from blackjack).

I propose we each deposit $100,000 into escrow with a top public audit firm. The Audit firm will review tax records for the years in question and provide an accurate amount that we each have won, reported and paid taxes on. Whoever is closest wins and will receive the entire $200,00 placed in escrow, less the audit firm fees.

Short and sweet. If this is too high stakes for you Singer / Argentino, perhaps you can get, slingshot, coach belly, Alan and some of your other supporters to throw in with you. I don't care how you go about it as long as you have 100k, to deposit in escrow. (your EBT card funds not acceptable)

I don't want to him and haw talk about this for weeks on end. I am prepared to do this immediately. I can deposit my escrow amount as early as Monday, July 9, 2018.

My tax guy has recommended Tompkins and Peters, CPA Audit here in Las Vegas, a well know tax audit firm with 30 years experience and a solid reputation. Neither I nor my tax representative is associated with Tompkins and Peters. If you are uncomfortable with this particular firm, I am sure we can find another that we both are comfortable with. But again I am not interested in playing you little internet troll / stalling games. I want this done now! In the next week.

Awaiting your reply big shot.

Bump. This was the very first post in this thread. As you can see KJ challenged Rob to a bet. That was three weeks ago. Rob has not accepted the bet. Rob, who did you say was chickenshit?

Mickey, try as you may from the cowardly sidelines.....I have no interest in anything Jew says or does. I got to know everything about him two days after he threatened me and he know it. Nothing about him is remarkable and anything he has about himself that I'm unaware of wouldn't interest me in the least.

He was first to call me out on my play strategy, so I'd expect him to be first in line to represent the "ap's" when my official challenge goes public in LV.

And BTW, deech got it right. Kim proposed a bet out if nowhere, so it was his to wimp out of.

Whatdayou think of dem apples mickey

I think you're chickenshit.

[redietz]

The above statement is highly suspicious. The IRS is very strict on who can file as a professional gambler. It has to be your primary source of income. Since, after expenses, Rob had no income from video poker, why did the IRS allow him to file as a professional gamber when he had other income? Highly suspicious.

Not at all likely in light of his claim to have lost the previous five years or more as an alleged "advantage player." Presumably he would have had to offset the wins the previous five years with detailed records of losses, since his losses were substantial (200K or more). He must have rung up a boatload of wins with accompanying W2Gs, assuming he was playing 98 to 99% video poker. Detailed records of losses would have been required.

So to start off claiming "professional" status the following year, he would have had to demonstrate why or how his approach had been and would continue to be different from what he had done before. Or, conversely, he would have to have entered into a partnership with someone, or started a gaming entity, and brought another individual into it with a proven track record of winning so as to explain why or how he would suddenly qualify as a "professional."

Argentino knows this, of course. That's why no tax returns to Mr. Mendelson. They would either put the lie to the entire story or reveal another party as the rationale for the sudden ability to file as a professional.

Fun watching you and mickey continue to make up false stories just because you're forced to keep witnessing me pick off your "ap's" one by one.

I suggest regnis and MrV chime in on this at their leisure.

If Argentino had any explanation for why the IRS was so lenient and bent their rules regarding his filing as a professional gambler, he would present it here. Instead, he posts a single line without addressing the gaping gaps in his origin story. Argentino created an origin story that is highly unlikely to be anywhere near true. The fact Argentino tried to pass this off as his origin story is damning in and of itself, because it suggests he doesn't have any idea about filing with the IRS as a professional gambler.

I just received an email reminding me that Argentino, while filing as a "professional gambler," claimed to have written off 100K in wins multiple sequential years with "business deductions" such as travel, lodging, and food. This left him with no net gambling winnings, according to Argentino. These write-offs as a professional would have followed years as a non-professional of reporting losses that offset any wins. And the IRS just allowed him to keep doing it, year after year. LOL.

Basically, you have an individual claiming to be allowed to file as a professional in the first place despite demonstrating no history or ability to win for a period of years. Then, after somehow getting clearance to file as a professional, and presumably under duress to create the perception of being able to turn a profit or at minimum head in that direction, he uses massive deductions to neutralize all gross income -- even though he needs to create the perception of profitability.

The only way, in my experience, that the IRS would have allowed him to file as a professional in the first place would have been if he created a gambling entity or entered into a partnership with someone(s) who had demonstrated profitability previously.

Now, I suggest the lawyers among this forum weigh in with their opinions. I happened to file as a professional gambler for a couple of years some 30+ years ago. I had a professional accountant. He would have laughed off Argentino's story. I know this because, hell, everyone tries to pull this stuff. I remember the IRS per-day limits on deductions for Las Vegas at the time for lodging and meals, and they were damned low compared to other cities. The limits have since come up into line with other metros. Argentino claims he deducted groceries and lodging to the tune of 100K a year for multiple years...all the while needing to demonstrate profitability to maintain status as a professional.

It's just a really stupid origin story, and I'm sure Argentino is laughing at anyone who remotely buys it.

[Kim Lee]

I ... publicly challenged ... the idiots at Huntington Press ... I put the cash escrow up with the casino manager at the Casuarina Casino. ... Fezzik etc. checked on my escrow.

https://www.gamblingforums.com/threa...er.4966/page-2

Had I not deposited/identified for verification the $640,000 ... I'd have looked like a phony.

I e-mailed them. Huntington Press says it is highly unlikely. Fezzik says you ducked the challenge. You look phony now.

You want me to post $400K so that you can play $1 video poker, on the absurd premise that you might escalate to a $100 machine. You have "retired" from video poker and have a long history of internet challenges which never occurred. So you need to put up money before I wasted time.

Could you post pictures of these "jackpots" along with redacted copies of the W2G's, you know, like Alan and I do.

Please post some pictures of your jackpots on $100 machines.

[Alan Mendelson]

Would someone tell me how many of hours of gambling are required to have the designation of "professional"?

Why don't you start, mickeycrimm?

[Alan Mendelson]

https://www.gamblingforums.com/threa...er.4966/page-2


I e-mailed them. Huntington Press says it is highly unlikely. Fezzik says you ducked the challenge. You look phony now.

You want me to post $400K so that you can play $1 video poker, on the absurd premise that you might escalate to a $100 machine. You have "retired" from video poker and have a long history of internet challenges which never occurred. So you need to put up money before I wasted time.

Could you post pictures of these "jackpots" along with redacted copies of the W2G's, you know, like Alan and I do.

Please post some pictures of your jackpots on $100 machines.

Moot point. Some of the APs on this site have said they don't bother to take photos.

[redietz]

Would someone tell me how many of hours of gambling are required to have the designation of "professional"?

Why don't you start, mickeycrimm?

I'll start. Thirty years ago, it had to be your primary job. No other paying employment could require more hours of your time or provide more income.

ShShSh.

[Alan Mendelson]

Would someone tell me how many of hours of gambling are required to have the designation of "professional"?

Why don't you start, mickeycrimm?

I'll start. Thirty years ago, it had to be your primary job. No other paying employment could require more hours of your time or provide more income.

ShShSh.

I suspect (but can't confirm) that some professional poker players spend more time and earn more money from endorsements, articles, books, lessons, etc. Do they lose their gambling related deductions including travel, hotel, meals?

[jbjb]

I suspect (but can't confirm) that some professional poker players spend more time and earn more money from endorsements, articles, books, lessons, etc.

There's no doubt about this.

[redietz]

I suspect (but can't confirm) that some professional poker players spend more time and earn more money from endorsements, articles, books, lessons, etc.

There's no doubt about this.

Obviously, being a "professional poker player" and being a "professional gambler" are not synonymous, just as being a "professional sports handicapper" and being a "professional gambler" are not synonymous. They are completely different things from an IRS perspective.

[Alan Mendelson]

I suspect (but can't confirm) that some professional poker players spend more time and earn more money from endorsements, articles, books, lessons, etc.

There's no doubt about this.

Obviously, being a "professional poker player" and being a "professional gambler" are not synonymous, just as being a "professional sports handicapper" and being a "professional gambler" are not synonymous. They are completely different things from an IRS perspective.

So does this mean that professional poker players who have more income from endorsements and books and lessons and videos lose the right to file a Schedule C as a professional gambler and lose the ability to write off costs associated with, for example, the costs of traveling to tournaments around the country?

If as you're saying the IRS has such stringent rules about who is a professional gambler what do these guys do when they spend so much?

I think there's a $10,000 buy-in tournament every week in the USA.

[Deech]

Ok, I have had enough of this nonsense. It has been a year now of this fraud making his mathematically impossible claims of making first 900K, now up to 1.5 million while playing negative expectation video poker. And at the same time, tearing down my and other AP's claims.

It is time to put your money where you mouth is.

Singer / Argentino now claims he has made 1.5 million playing negative expectation video poker.

I claim I have made a total of 1.2 million in my AP career ($938,000 from blackjack).

I propose we each deposit $100,000 into escrow with a top public audit firm. The Audit firm will review tax records for the years in question and provide an accurate amount that we each have won, reported and paid taxes on. Whoever is closest wins and will receive the entire $200,00 placed in escrow, less the audit firm fees.

Short and sweet. If this is too high stakes for you Singer / Argentino, perhaps you can get, slingshot, coach belly, Alan and some of your other supporters to throw in with you. I don't care how you go about it as long as you have 100k, to deposit in escrow. (your EBT card funds not acceptable)

I don't want to him and haw talk about this for weeks on end. I am prepared to do this immediately. I can deposit my escrow amount as early as Monday, July 9, 2018.

My tax guy has recommended Tompkins and Peters, CPA Audit here in Las Vegas, a well know tax audit firm with 30 years experience and a solid reputation. Neither I nor my tax representative is associated with Tompkins and Peters. If you are uncomfortable with this particular firm, I am sure we can find another that we both are comfortable with. But again I am not interested in playing you little internet troll / stalling games. I want this done now! In the next week.

Awaiting your reply big shot.

Bump. This was the very first post in this thread. As you can see KJ challenged Rob to a bet. That was three weeks ago. Rob has not accepted the bet. Rob, who did you say was chickenshit?

Mickey, try as you may from the cowardly sidelines.....I have no interest in anything Jew says or does. I got to know everything about him two days after he threatened me and he know it. Nothing about him is remarkable and anything he has about himself that I'm unaware of wouldn't interest me in the least.

He was first to call me out on my play strategy, so I'd expect him to be first in line to represent the "ap's" when my official challenge goes public in LV.

And BTW, deech got it right. Kim proposed a bet out if nowhere, so it was his to wimp out of.

Whatdayou think of dem apples mickey

Hold on. Roberts Rules of Order. There has been a misinterpretation of my simple quote.

I stated that, in regards to whom should place the first escrow, "who made the first bet and who is accepting the bet?". I never used Kim, Rob, or Coach in my comment.

This forum can argue this all month (can we get schedule C off the agenda?).

Anyhow, without posting the previous comments I think it went like this:

1) KEWJ challenges Rob to mutually post tax returns.
2) Rob briefly explains his system and challenges everyone to match his retort.
3) Mr. Lee accepts the challenge from Rob.

Yes, the understanding of the money limit has changed a few time. Not by Mr. Lee, but by Rob. No, problem, as Rob wants to make sure of the exposure of the bet. Mr. Lee, by my understanding has excepted every monetary increase from Rob.

While I have no skin in the game, like a poker game, who made the first bet? As far as I can see, there was never a monetary counter bet.

Fine, somehow, I will be viewed as "one of them" by some of the community. Let's make an easy fix
If 400K+ is needed in escrow, then let's start slow. !00K from Rob followed from 100K from Mr. Lee. Repeat and rinse.

I can honestly say that I do not understand how a bet cannot get started. Please, someone, the initial challenger (or other), put some money in.

[mickeycrimm]

Rob's propositions are designed to get no takers. It's a bunch of "I'll huff and puff and blow your house down." Basically, they are big bluffs. By making the money involved in the six figures, sometimes high six figures, he eliminates 99.54% of gamblers. His latest proposition is absurd. While he would have to escrow 114K his opponent would have to escrow 800K just to take the bet. Absurd. But then someone says they accept and Rob goes into a tap dance. He even explains how foolish it would be for someone to take the bet. And thats why he figured no one would take the challenge. In other words, it was a big bluff.

There are very good reasons why someone, even if they figured they would have a huge edge, would decline such a bet. Most professional gamblers don't like to expose too much of their bankroll on any one bet no matter how much of a favorite they are. As Puggy Pearson said years ago "You don't take your whole bankroll to one game." Professional sports bettors don't risk more than a point or two of their whole bankroll on any one bet.

Thats why Rob's 640K proposition is highly suspect to me. I don't think he ever intended to go through with it. He made a proposition so huge he didn't figure to get any takers. And while Fezzik declined Rob's initial offer Rob declined Fezzik's counter offer.

[kewlJ]

Rob's propositions are designed to get no takers. It's a bunch of "I'll huff and puff and blow your house down." Basically, they are big bluffs.

This is absolutely correct. Rob Singer's claims have been so thoroughly debunked now that he is desperate for a win, to provide some kind of cover. That's what all these different challenges are about. Singer proposes a wager in such a way that he thinks no one will accept. And if someone does accept, then he starts adding stipulations.....changing the terms of the wager until he gets what he wants....which is that no one accepts. Then he will claim victory in that no one accepted his wager. It is a typical troll play from the troll playbook.

That is all this guy Singer is and this is all he has left, because he and his claims have been so thoroughly debunked. There just is no one reasonable that believes anything he says. He is down to like 3 people that stick up for him. I don't even think these 3 people believe his claims, as evident by Alan being unwilling to say whether he believes Singer's claims, when I asked him numerous times the other day. The 2 or 3 supports of Singer, don't so much support his claims, which even they know are impossible, as they support his war on AP's.


These wagers being proposed are nonsense. They wouldn't even prove anything. Who cares if he wins 8 out of 10 sessions. Who cares if he extends that to 80 out 100 or even 800 out of 1000. Progressive betting systems, of which Singer's system is, are designed to result in many small wins. BUT they are not a winning system overall. Eventually a few large losses come along and more than wipe of all those small wins. That is not theory....that is mathematics. Singer just refuses to acknowledge that particular part, which is a part of EVERY progression system. This is more of Rob living in his own fantasy world. And really, I don't even think it is that because I don't believe even Rob believes the shit he is claiming. It is just part of the scam.

The only wager that would truly put Rob's "system" to the test, would be a wager involving results, not sessions on, but money won or lost over a somewhat long period of time....like 6 months. That would allow for the losing sessions that are present with ALL progressions to wipe out those small wins. So if there is to be a wager, that is what it has to involve. Six months worth of play. Someone follows Singer around, documenting (preferably video recording) all his play. At the end of that Six months Singer should be $50,000 ahead according to his claims of averaging 100k a year for 10+ years. No odds needed. Session wins don't matter. What matters is money. Does he earn what he claims....period.

Edit: In this post, I initially offered to take this wager, again. But I have already changed my mind. I am not interested in playing Rob Singer's troll games any longer, nor wasting my time on him and his nonsensical claims. I just don't care enough. I am sure someone else....maybe Kim Lee will step up and take this wager that I propose, as it would almost surely being a winning wager (very +EV)….or I should say it would be if Singer was actually going to pay, which he never will.

[regnis]

This doesn't need to be this hard. Flat wager of $25,000. Wager is that Rob can win 8 of 10 sessions, playing his system, and after the 10 sessions also be positive. A winning session is a minimum of +$2,500.
Rob will set forth how and when he changes denominations and/or games. He need not set forth special plays, etc.Otherwise, he plays his system and his progression of denominations, not an altered version as DanDruff has suggested.

Simple----put up the $$ everyone.