El Cortez automatic shuffle machine cheating

[Alan Mendelson]

Question: how do you know when the clump starts and when it ends? If you wanted to make big bets to push, push, push for future comps you would need to know this.

[AxelWolf]

Question: how do you know when the clump starts and when it ends? If you wanted to make big bets to push, push, push for future comps you would need to know this.

No doubt, there is way more potential than wasting this knowledge on just that.

I would like to know where all the aces are going?

I wonder of they use the same shufflers on games that have a side bet?

[Alan Mendelson]

Question: how do you know when the clump starts and when it ends? If you wanted to make big bets to push, push, push for future comps you would need to know this.

No doubt, there is way more potential than wasting this knowledge on just that.

So you can't rule out a false alarm or an honest shuffle?

Does this mean you can't realize you had a clump until after it's over?

[monet]

As I have always preached on these boards and taken plenty of heat for... it is all about Lie, Cheat and Steal which is the American Way. Of course you could say that it is the AP way for most of us but not the honest Abraham Lincoln KewlJ types. Those are the type of APs that play it by the book and straight. They like to tell the Casino when the Casino has goofed up. I am glad he didn't find this machine I found a few months ago that was having a problem with 100 dollar bills. Not every time but at times you would put in the bill and it would register the credits and it would shoot the bill back out through the validator. I can see KewlJ going up to the slot attendants complaining that something is wrong. This happens from time to time. I have found machines that would let you cash out the coins but keep the credits on the machines. Needless to say you can make a few dollars per hour with these glitches.

Now let us look at a quote from Kewlj, from my Hot Sucker Thread, when I decided to share basic, known information with the public on this forum...

Why are you doing this? If there are people that want this info and you are willing to share, do it in private. I don't know if posting this kind of info publicly will make any casino think twice and tighten up anything. But it ISN'T going to make them loosen up anything. If some casino or casino exec(s) get nervous, any changes will be for the worse. I think you know that though. For some reason, you seem to be intentionally being a jerk.

Not long after this quote we now have this thread lol.

Anyways, whatever... The El Cortel isn't the best place to exploit Black Jack. Not that you can't do it but the pit over there is pretty serious about hawking all players. I seen them flat bet people that had no clue and after that bar them because they were betting too much or on a winning streak or moving the bets around too fast. I am sure that you can make this work at the El Cortel but it even at 6/5 those bastards still hawk the games.

Spider Man Spider Man Does Whatever a Spider Can...

[monet]

what good does deleting your post do when it was quoted minutes later.

LOL... Let us look at what KewlJ said a few weeks ago about deleting posts when Alan's Son got all Hot Sucker... From the "What's my Edge in Craps" Thread...

Oh and one more thing. Not only did Alan insist that the son delete his posts referencing Alan's gambling addiction, but the son's posts that were quoted by several other members are now missing. That means that Alan lobbied Dan Druff to remove those quoted comments and Dan Druff complied.

Shame on you Dan Druff! You aren't helping Alan by doing that, you are enabling him. Nor is removing quoted posts the action of an honest forum administrator.

Sorry kewlj. Wrong again.
Jason deleted his own posts and I never spoke to Dan.

Well where are Jason's posts that were quoted by other members?

I suppose Dan could have removed those quoted posts on your behalf without you asking. I personally don't believe that. And if that were the case it is still just as dishonest a move by a forum administrator. No wonder this forum remains what it is!

I mean look at posts #204 and #205.

#204 is the initial post by your son Jason, outlining your gambling addiction and financial problems because of it.

#205 is a response by redietz in which he quoted the above post. That quote has been removed which makes redietz's response almost not relevant.


There are other similar examples that occurred throughout Sunday. Any administrator that would allow this and participate in doing so, is just dishonest.

But there is also a very good reason why those posts should remain.

He has other quotes along the same lines about deleting posts or threads but I figured he would delete his post so I quoted it. He ended up deleting it as I thought and I wouldn't doubt if Dan Druff deletes my quote so that all this dirt gets swept under the rug. Nothing new... that is just how life is.

Most of these APs and Anti-APs are hypocrites like most people in life but with me I tell you up front... I am stealing... I am a bad guy. Don't bother me... I have my own troubles. Although a few APs that I have known around town for a very long time always come up to me when they see me. They don't say hello or how are you doing? They always say something like... I haven't seen you for awhile... where have you been stealing?? Next you have the conversation where someone will say to another guy... I haven't seen him for awhile... and they reply... yeah he has been somewhere that we don't know about... Stealing!

[Half Smoke]

I just have to say, if this is is true there's a way to take advantage of it.

I'd love for somebody to explain to me how to take advantage of clumping of just 10s with no aces and no low cards. looks like just pushes.


but I won't hold my breath. don't think it's gonna happen.

[Alan Mendelson]

I just have to say, if this is is true there's a way to take advantage of it.

I'd love for somebody to explain to me how to take advantage of clumping of just 10s with no aces and no low cards. looks like just pushes.

Axel mentioned that during the pushes you could bet big which would generate points for comps and lead to offers.

But since table play ratings are hit and miss somehow you'd have to be sure the pit is rating you properly during these push hands. You'd also have to know when the push hands start and stop to do this effectively and I'd like to know how you can accomplish that feat?

[Rob.Singer]

Much ado about nothing again. More kew ranting over a very unclear situation. And after all these "months of gathering info and data" wouldn't the "experts" here be able to agree on the facts?

How is it that a self-described "professional bj counter for 15 years" gets immediately debunked by another in the AP crowd over who has the real "clumping" advantage? Can it get any more confusing for the readers?

Seems to me the most pertinent question brought forward was "where are all the Aces in this"? Why is no one explaining this....and why have coach's original questions not been answered?

Looks like just another "other forum topic" was brought over here for nothing other than ranting purposes. Why does this forum care one bit about what some weird bj forum or what the constipated admins. from WoV assert about anything anyway?

[Alan Mendelson]

I'm not a blackjack player but if you already know that the tens are clumped together and you're getting pushes to take advantage of, does it matter if the aces are with all of the other non-ten cards?

It seems to me that knowing you'll get a push has enough value on its own so you can increase bets to generate points and comps.

But again how do you know when the clump really starts and ends and how do you know that it's not just a normal shuffle with several tens coming back to back?

[tableplay]

I just have to say, if this is is true there's a way to take advantage of it.

No shit. You are telling me this a little late don't you think?

In the last 24 hours I have been under attack from all sides. Someone claiming to be associated with shufflemaster, threatening me. AP's, some who I considered friends, pissed at me, for outing a play, calling me traitor. One threatened to reveal my name and address. I am the bad guy here I guess.


But let me tell you how it really went down. I am a card counter. I never claimed to be the brightest bulb in the pack. I dabble in other AP, if it's not too complicated, but mostly I am a card counter. Card counting is how I have supported myself and made the vast majority of my living for 15 years now.

So as a card counter, I come across a situation, that I identified as cheating and bad for blackjack players, card counters and non-card counters (regular players) alike. And I wanted to 1.) expose what I still believe is illegal and cheating and 2.) warn other players, both card counters and regular players.

So it turns out, just as you said, there are members in our community that figured this out before me and have found ways to exploit it. AND they are now pissed at me.....calling me a traitor.

But here's the problem. I didn't come up with this yesterday, out of the blue. I first noticed this months ago and have been collecting data. I didn't want to make such an allegation, without being reasonably sure. And during this time, I have mentioned this several times on various sites, including the first thread I started just over 2 weeks ago, at the same time I contacted you and several other AP's about my concerns.

So knowing that I was heading down this road, at no time did any of these AP's contact me. Give me a heads up. How about something like "hey you might not want to travel down that road". So not knowing THAT angle, I did what I did from a card counter / blackjack player point of view, with the goal of protecting card counters and (traditional) blackjack players.

And I still think someone needs to be looking out for card counters AND non-card counter traditional -EV players. Because what this casino, and shufflemaster is doing is illegal. BUT, had I know that some in our community were exploiting it....one upping the casino attempt to cheat, I certainly wouldn't have brought it to light. I would have just quietly stopped playing the tables in question.

So while I am the bad guy here, I think there is blame to go around. All it would have taken was a little heads up from my fellow AP's who could see where I was headed. But NO.... AP's, can't do that. They are so goddam worried about someone finding out about one of their opportunities.

Don't get snotty with me. I haven't criticized you or said anything derogitory.

I asked you a few questions regarding the Aces and a few other things. TBH I didn't really read all that was going on and its hard to just imagine all the details without sitting down and playing or thinking about the scenario. I haven't/hadn't really put much thought into it. I have played very little live BJ for many many years now. I would say that BJ is more your area of your expertise. after 200 shoes and whatever time you spend on this, I have to imagine you could have come up with that on your own.

But given the limited information I read and limited time, I spent thinking about it. I told you via PM a few days ago my quick thoughts about it, and I included that it would be exploitable. If by no other advantage at minimum one could at least earn free high limit bet ratings knowing all hands would be a push, push, push, push. = comps, fee bets/play, invites, mail etc

I don't think one has to be the brightest anything to see there has to be an advantage. That's all you have to know is that there's an advantage. And once you think or know that there could be and advantage you move on to the next step. (Just remember, if it's not random there's always a good chance you can exploit it)

If it were me, and I thought it was remotely possible that it was exploitable, yet I couldn't figure out how or why myself, I would contact someone who I thought could. My first thought wouldn't be to post up and expose the casino cheating. AP is not always about being able to do something or figure something out all by yourself, It's also knowing when you don't know and then what to do next, and how to make money given the situation.

Proficient Shuffle Trackers will render these machines extinct.

[monet]

It is pretty bad when you don't spell the first few words correctly. I understand messing up believe but to mess up the El Cortel... shame.

You can find the rest of the thread over here... https://www.blackjacktheforum.com/sh...ez-is-cheating

Quoted by your friendly neighborhood Spiderman

07-09-2018, 11:02 AM

spiderman
Member
Join Date
Jun 2018
Posts
57

I beleive El Cortez is cheating

This will sound like a conspiracy theory the likes that a former member here posts at several other sites through the community. And BTW, I am not that former member. And I fear Norm will deleagte this to the disadvantage forum. But I urge you to read the entire post and then play and see for yourself.

First a little background. I have played El Cortez regularly for years, meaning multiple times per week. Hundreds of sessions per year. Unlike other players who find El Cortez unplayable because of the sweatiness that that are known for, I have found a way using a form of opposition betting to play regularly at EC with minimal heat. I combine this form of opposition betting with short sessions and showing bet spread but a couple times per session. And my results have been that every year, EC has been among my best individual casinos, usually top 2. Combined for the last 8 years, EC is my number 1 money maker.

This year started out the same for me, doing quite well at EC. And then things changed about 3 months ago. At this point I want to describe the layout, so those familiar with EC will know what tables I am tabling about. As you enter from the corner of 6th and Fremont, the first 'pit' or group of tables is usually not open. These tables are only in operation during busier times, weekends and holidays. The next 'pit' or group of tables is always in use. And there are 2 double deck tables, one on each side of pit. These tables still remain the typical EC tables. My results are excellent and heat is typical of EC. They sweat even small stakes and small spreads. Opposition wagering seems to confuse them though, even at the green level. Tip: keep your wagers green, even when betting up to $200.

Now at the end of this second pit, there are two new (in the last couple months) double deck games. They are the final two games (end games) of this second pit, before you hit the third pit. One of the games is next to a roulette game, for reference. Now these are the two games that I have had unusual results and have done some pretty significant research (trial size) on.

These are $5 minimum games during the week, maybe $10 on weekends, with newer model ASMs. The kind that can be programmed by entering a code. Not only by my results but my observation of several hundred times through the shuffle of these machines, I believe these machines are in what you may have heard a former member refer to as "beast mode" Basically there is a clump of high cards somewhere in play. A significant clump. This results in every shoe or time through the 2 decks (until shuffle point) at some point reaching a TC of +4 or -4 EVERY single time through the cards.

One of 3 scenarios. 1.) high card clump comes out at the beginning, resulting in a very negative count immediately, that remains, slowly moving back towards zero throughout the remaining cards. 2.) high card clump comes out later, either in the middle or end of cards that are played. This results in a rising count that always reaches TC+4, often more and then the high card clump comes out and the count returns close to zero before the shuffle. You might think this is a card counters dream but it is not. You are at a disadvantage for several rounds when low cards are coming out, and then push 20's when the high card clump comes out. If you are playing with several other players you will notice a round that almost everyone including dealer has 20's. 3,) is that the high card clump is after the shuffle, in which case the count rises throughout the played cards, the counter raising his bets with the rising count and the high value cards never come out (after the shuffle point).

The machine, in this mode that I refer to as "beast mode" makes the high card clump. The player cutting determines the placement of the clump, meaning which of the 3 scenarios above will occur. And all 3 favor the house to varying degrees.

So in my play of these two tables over the past few months, the first thing I noticed was my results, losing results, which I have never had at EC. As continued to play while I suspected what was going on, I noticed something else. There is no heat at these games. Those that play EC regularly know that you frequently see other card counters, usually very low level, small spread and often questionable skill. And you have probably witnessed other counters backed off and likely been backed off yourself. Well at these two tables, card counters spread blatantly and receive no heat. AND they lose!

Over the last month, even though I strongly suspected what was going on, I have continued to play this game, 4-5 times a week, flat betting table minimum, just so I could have a reasonable sample size before I made such accusations, which I am sure sound like a conspiracy theory.

So, for those that play El Cortez, I just wanted to post a heads up.....BEWARE. For those that doubt what I am saying or want to take a look for yourself, I urge you to. Go in and flat bet these two specific tables. You will witness a high card clump with one of the three scenarios stated above....every single time through the cards. TC of +4 or more or -4 or I guess lower (since dealing with a negative). And spread if you want, you will notice the lack of usual EC heat at these two tables.

[monet]

I am not completely up to date but I thought Qfit/Norm had issues with KewlJ but he allows him to post up as Spiderman and he knows he is Spiderman right? I can't keep up with all the drama on these boards but I will try harder. So Qfit gets KewlJ banned at WoV but allows him to post on his board or something like that... can someone explain this to me?

When I signed up and I know everyone gets this message...

Dear monet,

Thanks for registering at Blackjack Forum, the Blackjack Community! We are glad you have chosen to be a part of our community and we hope you enjoy your stay.

All the best,
Blackjack Forum, the Blackjack Community


Well, lets see how long that lasts... I tend to be controversial and I see that ZK is on that site as well. As a matter of fact I seen someone post that Spiderman and KingZen need mental help as I have seen many posters on WoV say the same thing. That is some evil shit that I would not even post up about someone. You certainly can not assess that from anonymous posting. I also am of the mind set that we are all in need of help in one way or another when it comes to the mind. However, Fuck Big Pharma and that BS they push/sell!

[mickeycrimm]

No deceit coach belly. Spiderman never hid who he was.

You hid the fact that you are spiderman in the original post that started this thread.

Wasn't that deceitful?

Kj doesn't owe you a fucking thing you goddamned bum. Fuck off, bitch.

[monet]

No deceit coach belly. Spiderman never hid who he was.

You hid the fact that you are spiderman in the original post that started this thread.

Wasn't that deceitful?

Kj doesn't owe you a fucking thing you goddamned bum. Fuck off, bitch.

You forgot to say... and Die... for maximum effect!

[Moses]

Kewlj;

I would really hate to be in your shoes or an AP in that city right now.

It's one thing to point out autrocious behavior. It's quite another to point directly to a casino that is doing it. That casino owner wants your ass now. Problem is he may think someone else is you. You brought this all onto yourself.

[Rob.Singer]

You hid the fact that you are spiderman in the original post that started this thread.

Wasn't that deceitful?

Kj doesn't owe you a fucking thing you goddamned bum. Fuck off, bitch.

You forgot to say... and Die... for maximum effect!

mickey face it: it's not a banner day for the supposed "under-the-radar AP that is allowed to count with impunity"....aka, SPIDERMAN, and maybe even Antman! When a dump like the El Cortez starts to worry gamblers you know lives are crumbling. So for you to lose it with even more facts from coach, this only shows the level of insecurity you believe you're "protecting".

Such an enforcing brute, don't'cha think

[Moses]

I am not completely up to date but I thought Qfit/Norm had issues with KewlJ but he allows him to post up as Spiderman and he knows he is Spiderman right? I can't keep up with all the drama on these boards but I will try harder. So Qfit gets KewlJ banned at WoV but allows him to post on his board or something like that... can someone explain this to me?

When I signed up and I know everyone gets this message...

Dear monet,

Thanks for registering at Blackjack Forum, the Blackjack Community! We are glad you have chosen to be a part of our community and we hope you enjoy your stay.

All the best,
Blackjack Forum, the Blackjack Community


Well, lets see how long that lasts... I tend to be controversial and I see that ZK is on that site as well. As a matter of fact I seen someone post that Spiderman and KingZen need mental help as I have seen many posters on WoV say the same thing. That is some evil shit that I would not even post up about someone. You certainly can not assess that from anonymous posting. I also am of the mind set that we are all in need of help in one way or another when it comes to the mind. However, Fuck Big Pharma and that BS they push/sell!

LOL Funny post. Hell, we all need mental help. We are blackjack players for crissake. Doncha know all is fair in Love and War? And that's the "Norm"?

[kewlJ]

Boy, there is some weird shit going on?

Coach belly, who on this site is one of those anti-AP guys, always trying to discredit and pick apart AP's, is consumed with so much hate that he goes on the blackjack site mentioned, where he apparently has an account and participates very infrequently, just so he can post a link to this site in the hopes of getting spiderman banned.

Besides highlighting just how obsessed coach belly is, just think about that. He posted a link to this site on a blackjack AP site. What that will result in is a few more AP's coming here, maybe participating on the AP side of discussions, of which coach belly is always on the anti-AP, AP hater side of discussion That is known as cutting off your nose to spite your face.

So the first AP to learn about this site, thanks to coach belly and arrive, is Moses. Welcome Moses. Moses, I am not going to discuss the EC/ASM situation any longer. My intent wasn't to burn an AP play or any AP's. I regret that occurred. My intent was to try to stop a practice that was illegal and harmful to players and prevent the practice from spreading. As I said yesterday afternoon, once I became aware, I wished I could have rolled back the clock. I would have done it differently (not at all) rather than hurt fellow AP's. My regret now is for other AP's, not the casino owner / management mention. I am not afraid of them hunting me down.

Another odd development, Monet has joined the blackjack site. That's fine, I have no problem with that. I have no problem with Monet. I suspect he did so to make a point and won't participate there much, but again, he is free to do what he likes. I have no problem with him.

Now while I have no problem with Monet, I do want to address a couple things, the first being the following quote.

As I have always preached on these boards and taken plenty of heat for... it is all about Lie, Cheat and Steal which is the American Way. Of course you could say that it is the AP way for most of us but not the honest Abraham Lincoln KewlJ types. Those are the type of APs that play it by the book and straight.

I emphatically reject that to lie cheat and steal is the American Way! I equally reject that it is the AP Way! It is YOUR way, Monet, and if you are comfortable with that.....power to you. I generally am not. Why are you so obsessed with what I am or am not comfortable with? How does that effect you? Do what you want, what you are comfortable with and stop worrying about me.

But, just out of curiosity, are there any limits? You seem proud of your bad boy image and telling us that you are willing to steal. So if you are walking down a deserted street at night, will you pull a gun and rob someone? Are you willing to stab and kill someone so you can steal the $38 in their wallet? It's all the same. Stealing….you know....the American Way.


Now moving on, I am not going to go back and quote it, but from the same post, Monet complains and calls me a hypocrite for deleting my posts in this thread, while I complained of Alan's son deleting his posts. Here's the difference. I deleted my posts trying to protect other AP's once I was informed that I was actually outing an AP play. I could only do so much because others had quoted, but I did what I could. Sometimes, I post something about myself and later realize, it was a bad idea and go back and delete details or the entire post. I will try to protect AP's, AP plays and AP's livelihood and will not apologize for doing so.

The deletion of Alans son's post wasn't done to protect anyone, it was done so Alan wasn't embarrassed. There is a difference.

But whatever. I am not at war with you Monet. I don't know why YOU think we are. I see things and do things differently than you. I don't subscribe to your "bad boy" image, nor motto of "anything goes in the name of the almighty dollar". I have different comfort levels of what I find acceptable behavior, but I don't push my values on you or anyone. You do what you want.

[kewlJ]

I am not completely up to date but I thought Qfit/Norm had issues with KewlJ but he allows him to post up as Spiderman and he knows he is Spiderman right? I can't keep up with all the drama on these boards but I will try harder....

LOL Funny post. Hell, we all need mental help. We are blackjack players for crissake. Doncha know all is fair in Love and War? And that's the "Norm"?

Moses, just to help you assimilate to this site, I will give you a couple "cliff notes".

Despite the name, this isn't really an AP site. There are two fractions on this site, about 8-10 AP's and a smaller number of anti-AP, AP-haters. These anti-APers are angry, bitter losing, degenerate gamblers who hate that some of us actually make money at the casinos. Almost every discussion turns into the haters denying AP even exits (Earth is flat people) and trying to discredit AP. Frequent demands of proof and so forth


Now, of the 8-10 AP, most are not blackjack AP's. I would say there is myself and 1-2 other blackjack AP's, so you will make 4, if you stick around. Most are machine AP's, some doing some incredible things way above my pay level or ability to understand. Monet is one of those, so I wouldn't call him a blackjack player, although he may occasionally play BJ. He is a successful AP, mostly of machine play.

There is however a 30 year professional sports bettor, among our membership, Moses, So I suspect you might enjoy those discussions. Moses too is a big sports bettor guy. Actually, should you stick around Moses, you might enjoy the discussions on this site, which mostly are just trolling. You seem to like that kind of thing.

[Rob.Singer]

I am not completely up to date but I thought Qfit/Norm had issues with KewlJ but he allows him to post up as Spiderman and he knows he is Spiderman right? I can't keep up with all the drama on these boards but I will try harder....

LOL Funny post. Hell, we all need mental help. We are blackjack players for crissake. Doncha know all is fair in Love and War? And that's the "Norm"?

Moses, just to help you assimilate to this site, I will give you a couple "cliff notes".

Despite the name, this isn't really an AP site. There are two fractions on this site, about 8-10 AP's and a smaller number of anti-AP, AP-haters. These anti-APers are angry, bitter losing, degenerate gamblers who hate that some of us actually make money at the casinos. Almost every discussion turns into the haters denying AP even exits (Earth is flat people) and trying to discredit AP. Frequent demands of proof and so forth


Now, of the 8-10 AP, most are not blackjack AP's. I would say there is myself and 1-2 other blackjack AP's, so you will make 4, if you stick around. Most are machine AP's, some doing some incredible things way above my pay level or ability to understand. Monet is one of those, so I wouldn't call him a blackjack player, although he may occasionally play BJ. He is a successful AP, mostly of machine play.

There is however a 30 year professional sports bettor, among our membership, Moses, So I suspect you might enjoy those discussions. Moses too is a big sports bettor guy. Actually, should you stick around Moses, you might enjoy the discussions on this site, which mostly are just trolling. You seem to like that kind of thing.

Let me translate this nonsense: the "AP's" who've popped up here in the past year or so are all either rejects from WoV or those who can't stand how ridiculously constipated WoV administrators are when it comes to any subject the don't agree with.

As far as those who don't believe in the ap bs....kew is simply one of them who makes outrageous claims while covering his butt with statements such as "we're ap's---all of you MUST believe that we win because we say so!" and at the same time, they cannot fathom that someone who knows that AP play is nothing but a losing propositionn (see wizard's begging for money from forum members instead of ''aping it'' when he discovered it just doesn't work) and wins by NOT playing like a zombie ap. Clear-visioned they are not.

So once you get by all the dramatics and relevance-seeking baloney of this anonymous kew character--and if you can stomach the thin-skinned/alcohol-induced vulgarity rants of mickeycrimm (yes I know, the libtard admins. at WoV canned his sorry ass over there to keep the transgenders from crying a river) then you'll see the light the way it was meant to be seen.