El Cortez automatic shuffle machine cheating

[coach belly]

How come the sudden interest about sock puppets when you never asked rob about his use of them?

I don't recall Singer ever admitting to using sock puppets.

Did he admit that? If not, then it's just an accusation, probably from someone like you who makes things up.

I never accused tewlj of using sock puppets, I asked him if he did that and he admitted to doing it more than once.

[coach belly]

I would easily go through a liter of whiskey an evening.

You gotta be the biggest shit-talking phony on the board.

Does that liter count the chasers?

Black Velvet chased with orange soda...wow that's some hard drinkin allright.

Do you drink Bud Light Orange too?

LOL...what a sissy.

[kewlJ]

I wouldn't worry too much about it kewlJ.

What do we already know about AxelWolf?

Interesting list, Monet. I think I will "tackle just a couple of them.

9. When he was drunk he went on a brag/rant about how he paid 80k cash for his place/condo... like he did something!

Really?!? My brother and I have settlement next week on our condo for 4 times that amount. Not exactly paying cash, as in a briefcase full of cash. I think it involves a bank transfer. No mortgage though.

I suppose he lives in one of those garden type condo complexes. Nothing wrong with that. There are some decent ones in decent areas in Summerlin and Henderson areas, probably other areas as well. I am just at the point now, I like a little more security than that and hopefully paying a little more you get a little better class of people....but not always. Sometimes I wonder where some of these folks get their money. Nevermind….I don't want to know.

But that's not what I really want to talk about. I want to comment on #3, #6, #10 and the invite to moses.

3. Willing to meet up and associate with anyone from online.

6. Hangs out with Pals like RS, Mission146, BBB, Wiz, Djatc and others who are very loyal for the time being. Loyalty is funny when the money runs out.

10. Associates/Associated with WoN and people like WoN all the time... make no mistake.

Any chance at having lunch, dinner or drinks with me or one of the other known supposed AP's?

It's not just 'willing' to hangout, it is almost 'demands'. Axel has never liked that I don't socialize with him and other AP's including any kind of meetups. A round-about way of "who can vouch for you?" Him insisting upon this is no different than the likes of Singer and Alan demanding to see an AP's tax returns. I am not interested, nor applying to team up with Axel or anyone, so I have no need to meet and socialize. Axel has always looked down on me for that.

BUT, my feelings are exactly how most professional blackjack AP's handle it. Almost of us are solo players and tend to be loners, introvert types and maybe more importantly trust almost no one outside of our immediate circle. I know Axel is not a blackjack AP, so maybe he doesn't know this, but I would think he has come in contact with blackjack AP's enough that he should know this.

Let me share a little of my history of meeting up with people. Back in Philadelphia, while a member of my first forum, blackjackinfo, I met up and attempted to teach and work with a young blackjack enthusiast that was attending University of Penn at the time. His handle on BJinfo was BillytheBJkid. It quickly became apparent that Billy (not his real name), wasn't really cut out to be a serious blackjack player. He had serious issues with losing and variance, very similar to modern day, Zenking. As a matter of fact billy had a similar disposition to Zenking. So between a few losing sessions and me telling Billy that I didn't think blackjack was his calling, he went off on me, in person calling me names and on the forum, calling me names and revealing my real name and where I lived just out of spite.

Today, on the reincarnated BJinfo there is a member that frequently brings up this situation (I believe is this same person) AND I believe this is also recent WoV member "sidthesquid", who made posts attempting to get members to post a picture of me, or any personal information like my address of phone number. Wizard shut this down and kudos to him for doing so.

Ok so that was my first meetup with someone from a AP forum. Now in the same time frame that same forum, BJinfo, there was an annual weekend meetup of some members, organized by a member, usually in upper Michigan state. So one year, I thought it would be a good idea for me to go and meet some members. I made travel arrangements and just days before I received a private message from someone that I network with and have for many years, advising me not to go. Turns out this member, who happened to be Native American, organized this meetup every year and got a kickback from the Native American casino were it occurred. And guess what? The AP's all, or most managed to lose pretty big. AND much more importantly, they all ended up in one of the databases, Oregon Surveillance Network. For those that might not know, OSN as it is currently called, started out as Red Hand, a database owned by a Native American group that shared information on AP's exclusively with the Native American Casinos. The eventually went mainstream and are available to all casinos, under the name OSN.

So that is 2. BJ21.com also had an annual meetup, the Green chip party. I wanted to attend a couple of these, two in particular, as two older AP's that I respected a great deal, where in failing health and it would be the only opportunity to meet them. I declined. Why? Because Stanford Wong, owner of BJ21 at the time, who I like and get along well with online, was attending. Despite that I like Stanford (online) and credit his book Professional Blackjack, with much of my early BJ education, Stanford, had done consulting work with several casinos. I make a living playing against that very industry. I don't trust, nor am interested in personally meeting anyone who, calls themselves an AP and at times has worked for the industry.

And of course, Michael Shackleford falls into that same category. I always liked Mike and got along with him well online, until he banned me because "a friend requested him to" (a situation that he as yet has not been man enough to remedy). But I am not comfortable with guys that play both sides of the AP/casino fence. Trust issues! And on top of that, WoV had others, like Eliot that did so, plus members that are openly casino employees, so No WoV meet ups for me either.

The fact is I play blackjack for a living, mostly in one city, dominated by the gaming industry, an industry that happens to work hard to stop me from earning my living. So you will forgive me if I am cautious about who I meet up with, and that is not an apology. This policy has served me well. I am still playing! Anyone that can't understand that...that is your problem not mine. I am not meeting up with the likes of an Axelwolf, so he can vet me or whatever he thinks he is doing. Who the hell does he think he is? Absolutely no difference than those demanding to see tax returns.

If anyone reads my posts, when we have legitimate blackjack discussion, and doesn't find me credible and thinks I don't know what I am talking about, then think whatever you want. But truth be told, there aren't many people that reach that conclusion. People may not like me, or the way I handle myself, but very few that read what I say about blackjack doubt that I am legit.


Now on to #6, and understand, I like and respect most of those names (handles). Obviously, I have an issue with Wizard and I don't care for BBB as a moderator, but I generally like the others, just as I do Axel. And if they want to socialize and become personal friends with each other, that is fine. Personally I have seen a couple sites go down the tubes precisely because of that. It turns into this "clique" and everyone else is an outsider. Shades of High school / Jr High. But whatever...doesn't matter to me.

And Now #10. I have no knowledge of Axelwolf's relationship with WoN. BUT a WoN type is the exact reason why an AP should not be meeting up with people from the forums. Maybe I should have started with that. It would have been a lot shorter. Why don't I meet up with people from the forums? answer: WoN (type individuals).


That was a fun break, now back to packing for my move.

[kewlJ]

Oh geez, so I was going to comment about Axel's meetup offer to moses. BUT, I forget what point I wanted to make. Oh well.

[Moses]

Oh geez, so I was going to comment about Axel's meetup offer to moses. BUT, I forget what point I wanted to make. Oh well.

Well, let me see if I can help you out there Sparky. I don't participate in team play, I don't train newbie's, I don't share my picks, and I don't loan money. O ya. I hate bullies. Especially, the ones who pick on people that can't defend themselves. Other than that I'm a pretty nice guy.

A friend wanted me to teach him to play. Now why would I do that? He ask, "do you mind if I watch you play"? I replied, "yes."

He ask, "how about from a distance"? I replied "okay, from another state." He said "well, maybe I will stop by when your playing and say hello." I replied, "talk to me at work and I will punch you in the throat."

.
You must be the Moses before the Burning Bush!

No I don't smoke weed. But I've chased a little bush in my day. lol

[monet]

"talk to me at work and I will punch you in the throat."

You must be the Moses before the Burning Bush!

[Dan Druff]

I was just in Alaska for a week (pictures coming this weekend), so I'm behind on this stuff. I'm on the airplane right now.

However, I'd like to ask that you show care before you start a thread here.

If you are posting something you might regret later, don't post it.

It irks me when someone starts a thread, gets responses, and then deletes his original posts.

If you want to delete something moments after you post it, before any discussion gets going, that's fine.

Once the thread has been posted, your posts need to stand.

I am going to restore the original kewlJ posts.

[mickeycrimm]

How come the sudden interest about sock puppets when you never asked rob about his use of them?

I don't recall Singer ever admitting to using sock puppets.

Did he admit that? If not, then it's just an accusation, probably from someone like you who makes things up.

I never accused tewlj of using sock puppets, I asked him if he did that and he admitted to doing it more than once.

Rob has been caught redhanded with a sockpuppet on every site he was ever on.

[mickeycrimm]

I would easily go through a liter of whiskey an evening.

You gotta be the biggest shit-talking phony on the board.

Does that liter count the chasers?

Black Velvet chased with orange soda...wow that's some hard drinkin allright.

Do you drink Bud Light Orange too?

LOL...what a sissy.

No, it doesn't count the five or six beers I would chase the whiskey with. I didn't know how much I was drinking until the manager told me one day that I drank 46 shots of whiskey the night before. That's pretty close to a liter and a half.

Would you like to call the bar and question her about it?

[Dan Druff]

So, that's what I think they're trying to say. If it's a different chip, Shufflemaster didn't build it to be able to cheat. It would essentially be a corrupted and altered version of what they did release, not being used for its intended purpose.

WELL, then that chip or altered version is out there and becoming more readily available.

Regardless, my accusation really isn't against Shufflemaster. Where ever the chip comes from and whoever is responsible for inserting it, any casino using it knows about it and was a party to it.

I am NOT guessing at this. I was pretty sure for a while which is why I began accumulating data. But now, I now have a freaking machine in my possession that can do exactly what I suspected and quite frankly some other questionable and disturbing things.

And as bad as I feel about outing an AP play that some of my fellow AP's were exploiting, I do believe this has to be stopped now. It is cheating! and just because a few AP's are able to exploit it, the public shouldn't be unknowingly cheated like this.

Would you like to meet up with me in Vegas at some point and demonstrate this to me?

I will agree to keep quiet any details you wish for me to suppress.

I would love to blow this story up and get to the bottom of this.

From what I'm reading, and from my knowledge of embedded systems programming (which I worked in for several years prior to becoming a poker pro), I highly suspect that this particular "chip" can be removed and then one with more sinister programming could be inserted in its place.

If Shufflemasters can see the cards they're shuffling and have the ability to arrange the cards in order, then they can very possibly be rogue-programmed to do other things, such as this "clumping" you mention.

I fully agree wtih kewlJ's decision to out this, by the way. This is indeed illegal cheating, and is screwing both recreational players and APs. Only those who knew about the clumping could exploit it, but you can't fault a guy for outing something like this where everyone else is getting cheated. It's different than outing something which only benefits APs but doesn't hurt non-APs, such as misset or overcomping machines.

This clumping totally screws blackjack players in several ways.

1) It essentially removes several tens from the deck by artificially inserting a lot of ties with natural 20s.

2) It reduces the number of natural wins for the player where they don't have to draw. Drawing is a big disadvantage to the player (compared to the dealer) because the player loses if both themselves and the dealer busts. So if the player and dealer are both drawing, it's a disaster for the player odds-wise.

3) If the clump is fully or partially beyond the cut card (and thus never dealt), it confuses counters into believing they have an edge where they actually don't, and these counters are increasing their bets in -EV situations.

4) If the clump is fully or partially beyond the cut card (and thus never dealt), it screws all players (counters and recs) because undealt tens help the house big time (the entire concept of counting revolves around this).

[coach belly]

it doesn't count the five or six beers I would chase the whiskey with.

Would you like to call the bar and question her about it?

OK Nancy...anybody who needs to chase Black Velvet is a pussy, chasing with orange soda is an embarrassment.

I'm sure the manager would agree.

[mickeycrimm]

it doesn't count the five or six beers I would chase the whiskey with.

Would you like to call the bar and question her about it?

OK Nancy...anybody who needs to chase Black Velvet is a pussy, chasing with orange soda is an embarrassment.

I'm sure the manager would agree.

Find someone else to troll.

[kewlJ]

If you are posting something you might regret later, don't post it.

It irks me when someone starts a thread, gets responses, and then deletes his original posts.

If you want to delete something moments after you post it, before any discussion gets going, that's fine.

Once the thread has been posted, your posts need to stand.

I am going to restore the original kewlJ posts.

I strongly disagree with these actions Dan Druff, especially in this case. I deleted some info on the advise of the attorney who would bring this case. There are some things he thought should remain private until later. I mean, for god sakes, I can't go back and delete something on the advise of my attorney?

In another post you write how you strongly feel this case needs to be pursued to hold those accountable and then you do something that may hinder that.

In addition I deleted one comment a couple days later when new information became available to me. To be as specific, when I learned that there were members of the AP community exploiting a certain situation. With this new information, which I didn't know when the initial post was made, I no longer wished to share the certain details. Is that not my right?

I mean forcing information posted that a member no longer wants posted is just as much censorship as you deleting information. That is going to make me think twice about sharing anything on this forum. As I hope it will other.

You prevent me from deleting information sensitive to a legal case/challenge and in an effort to protect an advantage play, and yet you allow Alan's son to delete entire posts (plural), because it is embarrassing to Alan. This is BULLSHIT!

[regnis]

If you are posting something you might regret later, don't post it.

It irks me when someone starts a thread, gets responses, and then deletes his original posts.

If you want to delete something moments after you post it, before any discussion gets going, that's fine.

Once the thread has been posted, your posts need to stand.

I am going to restore the original kewlJ posts.

I strongly disagree with these actions Dan Druff, especially in this case. I deleted some info on the advise of the attorney who would bring this case. There are some things he thought should remain private until later. I mean, for god sakes, I can't go back and delete something on the advise of my attorney?

In another post you write how you strongly feel this case needs to be pursued to hold those accountable and then you do something that may hinder that.

In addition I deleted one comment a couple days later when new information became available to me. To be as specific, when I learned that there were members of the AP community exploiting a certain situation. With this new information, which I didn't know when the initial post was made, I no longer wished to share the certain details. Is that not my right?

I mean forcing information posted that a member no longer wants posted is just as much censorship as you deleting information. That is going to make me think twice about sharing anything on this forum. As I hope it will other.

You prevent me from deleting information sensitive to a legal case/challenge and in an effort to protect an advantage play, and yet you allow Alan's son to delete entire posts (plural), because it is embarrassing to Alan. This is BULLSHIT!

I agree with KJ here.

[Dan Druff]

I will remove posts on a case by case basis upon request.

PM me and explain further, and I'll probably re-delete some.

[Dan Druff]

To expand a bit further, it annoyed me that you deleted the original post and several after it, following a lot of existing discussion.

There's no putting that cat back in the bag.

But as I said, I am open to removing individual posts where there's good reason to do so.

[coach belly]

I agree with KJ here.

That tewl posted the exact same thing on every forum where he is welcomed,
and went so far as to create socks just to post the info on forums where he is banned.

It's all over the place...what's the point of removing it here?

He's just trying to manipulate you Dan, he can't get away with that anywhere else.

[coach belly]

Find someone else to troll.

Hey Nancy...stop calling me out and I won't respond to you.

[kewlJ]

I agree with KJ here.

That tewl posted the exact same thing on every forum where he is welcomed,
and went so far as to create socks just to post the info on forums where he is banned.

It's all over the place...what's the point of removing it here?

He's just trying to manipulate you Dan, he can't get away with that anywhere else.

Coach belly what have you ever contributed here that was useful and beneficial to anyone? All you do is troll and attempt to discredit AP's.


Dan Druff: you have yet another opportunity to turn this site into something positive, worthy and more representative of the site's name. You had that chance before and started down that path, getting rid of one member who did nothing but troll and disrupt, but then reversed course, I suspect at the urging of Alan the site returned to the troll fest, garbage dump that it was.

One of the unexpected consequences of this thread and my initial desire to warn other players, was that someone posted a link to here on one of the AP blackjack sites. That has lead to one confirmed new members so far, moses, and several other recognizable names, creating accounts and looking around, like "Midwest player", who is a valuable contributing member at several sites. And I suspect even more that I don't recognize.

Can we at least give them something to look at beside constant trolling? Maybe give them a reason to want to join, and contribute? Can we give this site and those of us that try to participate here in a positive manner, a fighting chance for this forum to grow? Ball's in your court Dan Druff.

[AxelWolf]

STOP.

If so, there's nothing else to say.




DID DAN JUST OFFER TO PROVE OR DISPROVE THE EC BJ CHEATING CLAIMS
And keep KJ' s identity a secret?