Quality of Surveillance

[Alan Mendelson]

There is a dispute at a Vegas casino involving a large bet that wasn't paid properly and the player discovered the error days later and is now asking for a review of the surveillance video.

Fortunately the casino keeps it's videos on hard drives and usually for longer than the seven days required. The casino is cooperating.

The reason for this post is that the player was told that the cameras can't identify the bet in question. In other words the cameras can't see the actual chips well enough.

I was asked if I knew how good these cameras are for seeing the actual chips. I don't know.

But what concerns me is the casino practice of putting the big denominations on the bottom of the stack and smallest chips on top. The fear is the player won't be able to prove the amount of the bet.

[MaxPen]

I see that you hang around with like minded people. Irresponsible and foolish. Imagine that.

[RS__]

I believe it’s part of the NV gaming regulations that chips are required to be able to be seen and differentiated from other chips through surveillance. In my experience, proper dealing procedure, at least on big payouts or large bets, is to separate and/or splash the chips to show how much is wagered. Of course it also depends on the game and the bet.

Do you have any other info on this? Article? Or at least what game / bet / wager / layoff / etc.?

[Alan Mendelson]

I just got an email from a TV viewer. Not even a forum member. I have no other details. Apparently he had a $500 dark purple chip and some blacks under a number of $5 red chips and was paid incorrectly but didn't realize it till he cashed out at the cage. I don't know this person or even if his claim is true.

I posted this only because I know casinos want big chips on the bottom. I've never bet like that so I have no experience.

[Dan Druff]

I believe it’s part of the NV gaming regulations that chips are required to be able to be seen and differentiated from other chips through surveillance. In my experience, proper dealing procedure, at least on big payouts or large bets, is to separate and/or splash the chips to show how much is wagered. Of course it also depends on the game and the bet.

Do you have any other info on this? Article? Or at least what game / bet / wager / layoff / etc.?

This has been my experience.

When I've won large-ish bets in blackjack (a few hundred or more), they have separated the chips (especially if large denominations) before paying me.

[kewlJ]

Here is what is kind of funny. Surveillance cameras and monitors have the ability to read the date off of a dime. BUT they have trouble with color. Until very recently places didn't even use color monitors. Doesn't that seem odd, considering casino chips are different colors?


So that spreading of different denomination chips in a stack, which is common procedure, is more about reading the numerical values printed on them than seeing the chip color.

[Midwest Player]

Here is what is kind of funny. Surveillance cameras and monitors have the ability to read the date off of a dime. BUT they have trouble with color. Until very recently places didn't even use color monitors. Doesn't that seem odd, considering casino chips are different colors?


So that spreading of different denomination chips in a stack, which is common procedure, is more about reading the numerical values printed on them than seeing the chip color.

Back in 1994 I had the opportunity to go inside a surveillance room of an Indian casino and see a review of a tape. Please don't ask about the details of how this happened. I have never had such an opportunity since then, but on several other occasions I have seen still shots from the casino's cameras of the blackjack tables.

Let me tell you this. Way back in 1994 this casino had great color video. It was just like a good TV picture and you had no problem at all reading the number on a ten dollar bill.

[kewlJ]

Back in 1994 I had the opportunity to go inside a surveillance room of an Indian casino and see a review of a tape. Please don't ask about the details of how this happened. I have never had such an opportunity since then, but on several other occasions I have seen still shots from the casino's cameras of the blackjack tables.

Let me tell you this. Way back in 1994 this casino had great color video. It was just like a good TV picture and you had no problem at all reading the number on a ten dollar bill.

There he is! Welcome Midwest Player. Saw you signed in and looking around a few times...glad you found something you wanted to chime in on.

Interesting that you specify 'Indian Casino'. In my experience, not just pertaining to this subject, the Indian Casinos tend to go better quality, where as the trend of the non-Indian Casinos (at least at my neck of the woods) is more about costs and cutting costs.

Somewhere along the line, the pencil pusher, MBA types started making the decisions at the non-Indian casinos, and EVERYTHING has gotten worse in the name of saving a few pennies here and there. Sadly, that seems to be the basis of every decision. Maybe that will come to the Indian casinos too at some point, but it just seems like for the moment they still run casinos like casinos.

[MisterV]

I can think of what seems a simple solution so that the eye can easily tell chips apart; have a different "pattern" (for lack of a better word) of lines or markings visible on the side of each chip denomination such that when the side is examined from above by the eye the markings can be easily seen and distinguished.

I'd envision a simple "code" such as varying widths of black and varying widths of space around them, almost akin to a "Morse code" or similar.