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Thread: Chip inventory question

  1. #1
    I have several questions that hopefully people on here can help me out with who have been in this city longer than I have and can shed some advice on this topic.

    So.. I want to begin to keep a chip inventory, but my first question and probably the most important question is, how long can I hold these chips for without having any possibility of a casino saying they have no proof of me playing and refuse to cash out my chips? Or does this only happen at 1k yellow chips and higher? Would $500 purple chips ever cause a possibility of a chip confiscation if I tried cashing it out months later and they had no proof of me playing? Remember I play unrated, so what can actually happen? I don't want to run into a case such as that one guy Nolan Dolla who tried cashing out a 5k chip at MGM at a later date, but MGM confiscated it and didn't cash him out because they had no proof of him playing.

    Also how would I be notified if a casino decideds to change out their chips? Do I lose the ability to ever cash them out if I don't do it within the designated time frame once they announce it? How does a casino notify the players anyway? Is it through their player's card information? Or does a casino just post a flyer or sign on their walls to notify everyone?

    These are the questions as to why I've never kept a chip inventory. As everyone on these forums already know, I'm a very paranoid and sketpical person and the last thing I need is a casino that refuses to cash out my chips that I've held for months. Am I just spinning my wheels and there's nothing to worry about? Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me in this area can chime in. There are obvious benefits to having an inventory especially if you're playing blackjack. With my playing style and short sessions, I could actually end up playing 95% of the time without the pit ever noticing me if I could just take my chips from my pocket, jump in when it's positive after backcounting and jump out when it's neutral or negative and walk away. Of course if it's a big win, it would be much harder because that means lots of cheques play calls from the dealer and me being at the table a long time for the pit to know im there. Nonetheless, I'm sick of buying in, although if done right, buying in can also provide some cover if you do it right with small amounts, but I'm sick of attracting attention from the pit on buy ins.

    If anyone could help with all of this, it would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
    Last edited by ZenKinG; 08-10-2018 at 08:27 PM.

  2. #2
    Originally Posted by ZenKinG View Post
    I have several questions that hopefully people on here can help me out with who have been in this city longer than I have and can shed some advice on this topic.

    So.. I want to begin to keep a chip inventory, but my first question and probably the most important question is, how long can I hold these chips for without having any possibility of a casino saying they have no proof of me playing and refuse to cash out my chips? Or does this only happen at 1k yellow chips and higher? Would $500 purple chips ever cause a possibility of a chip confiscation if I tried cashing it out months later and they had no proof of me playing? Remember I play unrated, so what can actually happen? I don't run into a case such as that one guy Nolan Dolla who tried cashing out a 5k chip at MGM at a later date, but MGM confiscated it and didn't cash him out because they had no proof of him playing.

    Also how would I be notified if a casino decideds to change out their chips? Do I lose the ability to ever cash them out if I don't do it within the designated time frame once they announce it? How does a casino notify the players anyway? Is it through their player's cards or just a public notice on their walls? I play unrated, so how would I be notified?

    These are the questions as to why I've never kept a chip inventory. As everyone on these forums already know, I'm a very paranoid and sketpical person and the last thing I need is a casino that refuses to cash out my chips that I've held for months. Am I just spinning my wheels and there's nothing to worry about? Hopefully someone more knowledgeable then me in this area can chime in.

    Thanks in advance.
    Wait a second... haven't you been out here a year now? Didn't you ask this months ago? Why did you not start keeping an inventory from day one? I see no reason for you to start up one now since you don't really care to because if you wanted one you would already have one.

    I don't really think you are paranoid. I think you are a bit stubborn and you are going to do what you want how you want. Have you actually ever listened to anyone on these boards? I mean did it actually change your mind and make you act differently? I don't think so... you are going to do what you want to do no matter what so get to doing what it is that you do!
    Last edited by monet; 08-10-2018 at 08:25 PM.

  3. #3
    Originally Posted by ZenKinG View Post
    I have several questions that hopefully people on here can help me out with who have been in this city longer than I have and can shed some advice on this topic.

    So.. I want to begin to keep a chip inventory, but my first question and probably the most important question is, how long can I hold these chips for without having any possibility of a casino saying they have no proof of me playing and refuse to cash out my chips? Or does this only happen at 1k yellow chips and higher? Would $500 purple chips ever cause a possibility of a chip confiscation if I tried cashing it out months later and they had no proof of me playing? Remember I play unrated, so what can actually happen? I don't want to run into a case such as that one guy Nolan Dolla who tried cashing out a 5k chip at MGM at a later date, but MGM confiscated it and didn't cash him out because they had no proof of him playing.

    Also how would I be notified if a casino decideds to change out their chips? Do I lose the ability to ever cash them out if I don't do it within the designated time frame once they announce it? How does a casino notify the players anyway? Is it through their player's card information? Or does a casino just post a flyer or sign on their walls to notify everyone?

    These are the questions as to why I've never kept a chip inventory. As everyone on these forums already know, I'm a very paranoid and sketpical person and the last thing I need is a casino that refuses to cash out my chips that I've held for months. Am I just spinning my wheels and there's nothing to worry about? Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me in this area can chime in. There are obvious benefits to having an inventory especially if you're playing blackjack. With my playing style and short sessions, I could actually end up playing 95% of the time without the pit ever noticing me if I could just take my chips from my pocket, jump in when it's positive after backcounting and jump out when it's neutral or negative and walk away. Of course if it's a big win, it would be much harder because that means lots of cheques play calls from the dealer and me being at the table a long time for the pit to know im there. Nonetheless, I'm sick of buying in, although if done right, buying in can also provide some cover if you do it right with small amounts, but I'm sick of attracting attention from the pit on buy ins.

    If anyone could help with all of this, it would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
    ZK, the one member here who could give you a comprehensive answer is Kewlj. But he got tired of the flaming from the anti AP crowd here and is not currently posting.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  4. #4
    Originally Posted by monet View Post
    Originally Posted by ZenKinG View Post
    I have several questions that hopefully people on here can help me out with who have been in this city longer than I have and can shed some advice on this topic.

    So.. I want to begin to keep a chip inventory, but my first question and probably the most important question is, how long can I hold these chips for without having any possibility of a casino saying they have no proof of me playing and refuse to cash out my chips? Or does this only happen at 1k yellow chips and higher? Would $500 purple chips ever cause a possibility of a chip confiscation if I tried cashing it out months later and they had no proof of me playing? Remember I play unrated, so what can actually happen? I don't run into a case such as that one guy Nolan Dolla who tried cashing out a 5k chip at MGM at a later date, but MGM confiscated it and didn't cash him out because they had no proof of him playing.

    Also how would I be notified if a casino decideds to change out their chips? Do I lose the ability to ever cash them out if I don't do it within the designated time frame once they announce it? How does a casino notify the players anyway? Is it through their player's cards or just a public notice on their walls? I play unrated, so how would I be notified?

    These are the questions as to why I've never kept a chip inventory. As everyone on these forums already know, I'm a very paranoid and sketpical person and the last thing I need is a casino that refuses to cash out my chips that I've held for months. Am I just spinning my wheels and there's nothing to worry about? Hopefully someone more knowledgeable then me in this area can chime in.

    Thanks in advance.
    Wait a second... haven't you been out here a year now? Didn't you ask this months ago? Why did you not start keeping an inventory from day one? I see no reason for you to start up one now since you don't really care to because if you wanted one you would already have one.

    I don't really think you are paranoid. I think you are a bit stubborn and you are going to do what you want how you want. Have you actually ever listened to anyone on these boards? I mean did it actually change your mind and make you act differently? I don't think so... you are going to do what you want to do no matter what so get to doing what it is that you do!
    I edited my post before you replied and maybe that will answer some of your questions. As to why I never did it is like I said, I've been worried about the possibility of a casino taking my chips a month or months down the road especially since I play unrated.

  5. #5
    You don't keep a chip inventory to cash them later. You do it too avoid a cash buy in at the tables. It's best to only keep blacks ($100) and lower.

  6. #6
    Jbjb is correct. You run a risk with any large chips. I can give you lots of examples. Following the theft at Bellagio of $25,000 chips all of their $25k chips were canceled. Players had six months if I recall to exchange their chips. Players in the poker room had no trouble because they were known. Others did have a problem.

    Chips can be canceled immediately and without notice but you have six months to cash or exchange them.

    Once the redemption period ends you have a collectible for ebay.

    Edited to update:

    I checked the NGC regulations. You have 120 days to redeem canceled chips, that's four months and not six.

    The casino must post notices that chips have been canceled and they must run ads in two general circulation newspapers. I remember the Bellagio ad in the LVRJ following the craps table theft.
    Last edited by Alan Mendelson; 08-10-2018 at 10:09 PM.

  7. #7
    Didn't the thiefs try to fence the purloined chips, and didn't the fence get nailed?
    What, Me Worry?

  8. #8
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    ZK, the one member here who could give you a comprehensive answer is Kewlj. But he got tired of the flaming from the anti AP crowd here and is not currently posting.
    And I am still tired of the flaming and trolling and the direction this site continues to head, but I am happy to share my thoughts with ZK and anyone else who may come along and find them useful. (that is why I am responding publicly).

    The short answer has already been posted by jbjb. But I want to expand just a bit based on my experiences and what I do. I see three benefits to a chip inventory.

    1.) you avoid cashing in right after playing and that head shot from the camera at the cashiers cage. This is usually the casino's best opportunity to get a good head/face shot. Many entries in OSN that include a picture, the picture was taken at the cage.

    2.) As jbjb mentioned, having chips in hand allows you to enter the game without the buy-in. You have eliminated the first player interaction with the pit. If it is a fairly busy time and the pit people are busy, you may get in and out of the game without any interaction with pit. I can't begin to tell you how that increases longevity.

    3.) Related to #2, you can exit without coloring up, the second step that may allow you to avoid all interaction with pit.


    Now chip inventory is more advantageous at some places that others. Small casinos for example, tend to watch greens and blacks like the bigger stores watch purple and above, so chip inventory is a waste of time at any really small or sweaty stores in your rotation.

    I also don't bother with chip inventories at the "secondary" stores in my rotation, those that I only play once a month or so. I focus on the mid to bigger casinos in my primary rotation.


    Managing a chip inventory, takes a little practice. You don't need but a few hundred in chips (at the level you and I play). A small handful of green and a few blacks works nicely. If you lose that and the count is positive and you need to buy in for cash, that's ok. At that point you will be betting bigger anyway and likely be noticed with or without a chip inventory. And buying in for cash at that point gives the appearance of chasing losses. I don't have anything larger than black in my chip inventory. Just enough to begin playing.

    And finally, not coloring up, and then cashing out at the cage, allows you to break up cash outs at the cage, over days or weeks if necessary. This draws less attention and may avoid paperwork which in turn draw more attention. Keep your cash out at the cage small, under $2000 works nicely. And this is NOT structuring. You are not breaking up cash outs to avoid paperwork. You are doing it to avoid the attention that AP's generate in regards to the cat & mouse game we must play.
    Last edited by kewlJ; 08-10-2018 at 11:31 PM.

  9. #9
    I disagree with KJ on this one. Nobody mentioned, maybe because it's so obvious, that all the casinos use their own chips good only at their casinos. Keeping an inventory of 15 different casino's chips that you regularly visit is a major pain in the ass not worth the trouble. If you're going to visit 4 different casinos in one day are you really going to carry 4 different casino's chips with you? Come on. Get serious. KJ also said this, "And finally, not coloring up, and then cashing out at the cage, allows you to break up cash outs at the cage, over days or weeks if necessary." Disagree with this also. If you have a bunch of greens the dealer is going to ask you to color up before you leave the table. If you say, no it might piss somebody off because that means he may have to to slow down to get a fill. Often saying no and stuffing them into your pockets is a terrible idea IMO.
    Last edited by Half Smoke; 08-11-2018 at 12:48 AM.
    please don't feed the trolls

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by MisterV View Post
    Didn't the thiefs try to fence the purloined chips, and didn't the fence get nailed?
    I don't know if there was a fence. I do know that Bellagio immediately canceled all $25k chips and it was well publicized. What fence would be that stupid?

    The motorcycle thief was caught.

  11. #11
    How do you win thousands of dollars at a time with green and black chips and avoiding the cage?

  12. #12
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Originally Posted by MisterV View Post
    Didn't the thiefs try to fence the purloined chips, and didn't the fence get nailed?
    I don't know if there was a fence. I do know that Bellagio immediately canceled all $25k chips and it was well publicized. What fence would be that stupid?

    The motorcycle thief was caught.

    The Bellagio Bandit who stole $25k chips from a craps table with a motorcycle helmet tried to fence off his chips on Two Plus Two Forums in 2011. His screen name was oceanspray25 and here is his post https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...3&postcount=99 and the 2+2 thread starting at page 4 (post 99) https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...75/index4.html
    JSTAT on casinos, poker, and blackjack/baccarat card counting without charge. Saying what needs to said at https://twitter.com/Casino_Examiner

  13. #13
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    How do you win thousands of dollars at a time with green and black chips and avoiding the cage?
    Alan come on now. You KNOW you're gonna get accused of asking the tough questions once again, thereby affording kew the opportunity to jump up and down screaming, while claiming "that's just another anti-AP comment meant to flame!"

    It also gives him a way out of answering....similar to the two-table fiasco.

  14. #14
    Dear God. For once a constructive, interesting question was asked and KJ explained the answer in detail. He just needs a few chips to start playing. If he starts winning, great. If he starts by losing, and the count is negative, he will leave the table. If it’s positive, he will buy in for cash, ostensibly steaming, and bet much bigger. Makes perfect sense to anyone who cares to understand.

    But here we are, back to the same old same old.

  15. #15
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    How do you win thousands of dollars at a time with green and black chips and avoiding the cage?
    Alan come on now. You KNOW you're gonna get accused of asking the tough questions once again, thereby affording kew the opportunity to jump up and down screaming, while claiming "that's just another anti-AP comment meant to flame!"

    It also gives him a way out of answering....similar to the two-table fiasco.
    You two clowns and your trolling games. You are going to make it out as if I said I play green and black betting limits. I said no such thing. I said that is what I keep in my inventory to allow me to enter a game avoiding the buy-in, which is the players first encounter with pit. I usually have a handful of blacks, which allows me to play as I begin to raise my bets during appropriate counts. And as I clearly stated but somehow you two didn't comprehend or didn't want to comprehend, I can always buy in for cash should I lose whatever chip inventory I entered with (and the additional chips in my pocket).

    In addition Alan, please show me where I EVER stated I try to win thousands of dollars at a time. I average 70-75k a year from blackjack, playing 5-6 days a week, roughly 300 days a years. Do the math. I average about $1500 a day. And since my day is made up of 6-10 sessions...I average a couple hundred dollars a session. You will note that I italicized the word 'average'. I may have sessions with wins and losses of a couple thousand, but most session totals are in the hundreds....win or lose. And I may have days with wins and losses of 8-10k, occasionally more, but most days wins or losses are within a couple thousand dollars. I have specifically designed a plan of playing short sessions and moderate limits, to attempt keep session totals at an amount that draws less attention. It doesn't always work, but that is design.

    And finally don't twist my words about "avoiding the cage". I said I avoid the cage immediately after playing and when I do cash out, I cash out smaller amounts to avoid attention, including phone calls to the pit to verify anything. I am quite sure everyone who wanted to understand what I was saying understood. Only you two clowns playing your trolling games, twisting everything said, because you have an agenda, pretend not to understand what I said. Just grow up and stop your retarded little games.

    This was a courtesy response, but I won't do so anymore to anyone just playing trolling games. If I can benefit someone that has a genuine interest, I will, including legitimate questions, but I simply will not play your third grade games any longer.
    Last edited by kewlJ; 08-11-2018 at 09:35 PM.

  16. #16
    I don't seem to be able to edit. Obviously above I said $1500 a day, when I meant $1500 a week.


    ** I wish I was pulling in $1500 a day.

    Actually, I don't. I have to bankroll to play higher limits and earn a higher hourly rate. I chose not to. It's not that I don't want to earn more, but I play a level that is pretty well (in short bursts). My top priority is longevity. I don't want to be one of those "slash and burn" former MIT or other known players running bootcamps and such because they can't play much blackjack anymore. In the "shearer" vs "slaughter" debate, I am in the "shearer" camp.

    Anyway, watch the haters jump all over a typo
    Last edited by kewlJ; 08-11-2018 at 10:29 PM.

  17. #17
    Sorry kewlj, I didn't mean to challenge APs again but I keep remembering how you told us you lost $8800 in a day and then won it back plus a profit of several thousand and I knew you just didn't do it with blacks and greens and avoided the cage.

  18. #18
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    In addition Alan, please show me where I EVER stated I try to win thousands of dollars at a time. I average 70-75k a year from blackjack, .
    Who cares? Want me to go into my sportsbets? No and I'm not going into my blackjack earnings. It's no ones business.
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    playing 5-6 days a week, roughly 300 days a years. Do the math. I average about $1500 a week..
    Why does one need to conserve chips on just $1,500 a week? That's 3 pinks a week spread over how many casinos?
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    And since my day is made up of 6-10 sessions...I average a couple hundred dollars a session. You will note that I italicized the word 'average'. ..
    What a bunch of crap! 6-10 sessions per day at $200 per sessions average is $1,200 to $2000 per day.

    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    I may have sessions with wins and losses of a couple thousand, but most session totals are in the hundreds....win or lose. And I may have days with wins and losses of 8-10k, occasionally more, but most days wins or losses are within a couple thousand dollars. I have specifically designed a plan of playing short sessions and moderate limits, to attempt keep session totals at an amount that draws less attention. It doesn't always work, but that is design.
    .
    Yes, losing an 8-10k chunck in a day would smart. So do something about it in pitch games. Way, way too much variance. I've been down that in sports bets in a month but never in blackjack. 20 sessions a week is all I want and provides all I need. Don't start spouting off about my income because I've never stated it.

    Is this better for you Alan?
    Last edited by Moses; 08-12-2018 at 04:34 AM.

  19. #19
    Moses, I just don't follow the points you made. They're too cryptic for me. Would you mind explaining some more? Thanks.

  20. #20
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Sorry kewlj, I didn't mean to challenge APs again but I keep remembering how you told us you lost $8800 in a day and then won it back plus a profit of several thousand and I knew you just didn't do it with blacks and greens and avoided the cage.
    Alan, Alan, Alan. I've heard KJ rant of losing $20k in a night. But let's go with your total of $8,800 in a day. At $200 per session average, that's 44 sessions, just to get back to even. What's wrong with this picture?

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