My free play results

[Alan Mendelson]

If I were you use the type of strategy Alan uses, I would've just went to a $10 machine and played just one hand with the free play trying to get two pair or better.

You do that jbjb. Let us know how it worked out.

[monet]

I am probably wrong because whenever I debate you I end up on the losing end.

I just don't understand how hard it is to print up a strategy for whatever game you are playing and if you get stuck you look up the hold.

If you are in some Casino and fear looking up a hold I would either have it on my phone or I would memorize it perfectly before I played.

I guess the last circumstance if I have to play asap and I can't learn it and I can't look at a strategy chart on my phone or on paper.
This sounds highly unlikely but I guess you could play and make mistakes which would be better if the promotion is pushing you way over.

Most of what I have done for a very long time is play thin edges so I know these Advanced Strategies forwards and backwards but when I get stuck I look it up.

You do? Comes as a surprise to me, I thought I was the one losing most of the debates.

I agree with you 100% about printing up a strategy, especially if you're a recreational player. I don't know that I want to make a customized strategy for playing a JP promo on high denom and be sitting there with that in front of me as it would be a surefire heat magnet. I also don't know that you want to be busting out a strategy chart for borderline holds whilst vulturing UX if you're a hustler like me...my knowledge of DDB is, "Good enough for the purpose."

But, yeah, I agree 100% that it is a great thing to have if you're playing a session and you don't have the strategy down cold. Either on the phone or on paper. Especially when it comes to the thin edges you describe. I'm pretty sure we're close to 100% in agreement on this one with only two possible points of departure:

-I wouldn't worry about it vulturing.
-I would hesitate to use it on a high EV promotion.

I play long sessions of thin edges.
I play all over town every day.
I hardly vulture because it takes up too much time and in this town it isn't worth it to me.

I have never once gotten in any trouble over a strategy chart which is very small to begin with.
I don't understand how these guys get in trouble looking at strategy charts.
Sometimes I put it inside of my Sports Book sheets that have the daily lines on them.

Normally I do not have to look anything up but sometimes I want to make sure.
When I first started out I used to look at them all the time and I mean all the time.

[slingshot]

To me, the most important thing was you quit when once through. Yeah, I would have played a few hands differently, but anything can happen. I once witnessed a lady holding high card kickers to a pair on her draws and dang if she didn't hit quads playing the most unorthodox draws. I used to play it all completely, and seldom was I better off.

[Mission146]

I play long sessions of thin edges.
I play all over town every day.
I hardly vulture because it takes up too much time and in this town it isn't worth it to me.

I have never once gotten in any trouble over a strategy chart which is very small to begin with.
I don't understand how these guys get in trouble looking at strategy charts.
Sometimes I put it inside of my Sports Book sheets that have the daily lines on them.

Normally I do not have to look anything up but sometimes I want to make sure.
When I first started out I used to look at them all the time and I mean all the time.

I have no disagreements with any of that.

[Alan Mendelson]

As it was explained: it was three low cards. It would take an exceptional draw to make straight and a 1/1081 chance to hit a SF is what I remember. One pair pays nothing.

Holding the single high card gives you a good chance of hitting something with four cards being drawn.

Had the three SF cards included one or two high cards it would have been a different situation.

As I mentioned earlier Rob Singer years ago said the correct play was the three low SF cards. But then and now I still follow the strategy to hold the single high card.

I've had similar hands dealt to me and not once did the missing SF cards show on the draw. While that doesn't prove anything I can say I never regretted holding just the high card.

You guys should feel very good that Rob would play the hand the same way you do.

[regnis]

I don't know enough to know what the right move is, but I would have assumed the 3 low cards was better.

But can someone tell us what the difference is in actual dollars and cents. Are we talking pennies or 10ths of a penny or what. Is it even material is really my question.

[Mission146]

I don't know enough to know what the right move is, but I would have assumed the 3 low cards was better.

But can someone tell us what the difference is in actual dollars and cents. Are we talking pennies or 10ths of a penny or what. Is it even material is really my question.

https://wizardofodds.com/games/video...hand-analyzer/

The EV on suited 5-6-7 is 2.895467 coins vs. holding Q only which is 2.386174 coins. The total difference in expected return is (2.895467-2.386174) = 0.509293 coins, which comes out to about 12.732325 cents, which is very nearly 10% of the total amount that was bet that hand.

Depending on the denomination and number of hands being played, the cost of the error can go up (or down if it is single-handed at a lower denomination).

Anyway, Alan plays a fair deal of video poker, so the more you repeat this error, the more it costs in total in the long run.

Like Alan said, "This is 8/5 Bonus Poker which has a return of 99.17%," well, not playing like that it doesn't.

Funny thing is it would have been a bigger mistake had the hand not contained a straight penalty card against the SF draw.

[jbjb]

I don't know enough to know what the right move is, but I would have assumed the 3 low cards was better.

But can someone tell us what the difference is in actual dollars and cents. Are we talking pennies or 10ths of a penny or what. Is it even material is really my question.

https://wizardofodds.com/games/video...hand-analyzer/

The EV on suited 5-6-7 is 2.895467 coins vs. holding Q only which is 2.386174 coins. The total difference in expected return is (2.895467-2.386174) = 0.509293 coins, which comes out to about 12.732325 cents, which is very nearly 10% of the total amount that was bet that hand.

Depending on the denomination and number of hands being played, the cost of the error can go up (or down if it is single-handed at a lower denomination).

Anyway, Alan plays a fair deal of video poker, so the more you repeat this error, the more it costs in total in the long run.

Like Alan said, "This is 8/5 Bonus Poker which has a return of 99.17%," well, not playing like that it doesn't.

With him, it's more like 97.2%

[regnis]

I don't know enough to know what the right move is, but I would have assumed the 3 low cards was better.

But can someone tell us what the difference is in actual dollars and cents. Are we talking pennies or 10ths of a penny or what. Is it even material is really my question.

https://wizardofodds.com/games/video...hand-analyzer/

The EV on suited 5-6-7 is 2.895467 coins vs. holding Q only which is 2.386174 coins. The total difference in expected return is (2.895467-2.386174) = 0.509293 coins, which comes out to about 12.732325 cents, which is very nearly 10% of the total amount that was bet that hand.

Depending on the denomination and number of hands being played, the cost of the error can go up (or down if it is single-handed at a lower denomination).

Anyway, Alan plays a fair deal of video poker, so the more you repeat this error, the more it costs in total in the long run.

Like Alan said, "This is 8/5 Bonus Poker which has a return of 99.17%," well, not playing like that it doesn't.

Funny thing is it would have been a bigger mistake had the hand not contained a straight penalty card against the SF draw.

Thanks. That is NOT insignificant.

[Mission146]

As it was explained: it was three low cards. It would take an exceptional draw to make straight and a 1/1081 chance to hit a SF is what I remember. One pair pays nothing.

Let's take a look at that Straight Flush:

You hold 567:

Okay, so you can get 34, 48, or 89 to pick up the straight flush.

There are 47*46 = 2,162 combinations of cards and three of those combinations deliver you a straight flush:

2162/3 = 1 in 720.67

The 1,081 you're thinking of is probably a straight flush draw with one of the cards being a gutshot, that would only give you two combinations.

Of course, even in the example hand, Qh, 9d, 4s, 6s, 7s, the 467SSS is still the better hold. 568SSS is closer (but still better) though closer because the 9 becomes a penalty card against a regular straight.

[Mission146]

Thanks. That is NOT insignificant.

You are both welcome and correct.

[jbjb]

As it was explained: it was three low cards. It would take an exceptional draw to make straight and a 1/1081 chance to hit a SF is what I remember. One pair pays nothing.

Let's take a look at that Straight Flush:

You hold 567:

Okay, so you can get 34, 48, or 89 to pick up the straight flush.

There are 47*46 = 2,162 combinations of cards and three of those combinations deliver you a straight flush:

2162/3 = 1 in 720.67

The 1,081 you're thinking of is probably a straight flush draw with one of the cards being a gutshot, that would only give you two combinations.

Of course, even in the example hand, Qh, 9d, 4s, 6s, 7s, the 467SSS is still the better hold. 568SSS is closer (but still better) though closer because the 9 becomes a penalty card against a regular straight.

You forgot to divide by 2. It's 1081/3 or 1 in 360.333...

[jbjb]

Here's one for you all. You are dealt AKQJ9 of spades on your very last bet. You have absolutely no more money to your name and can't get any. Are you holding the flush or going for the royal?

[Mission146]

You forgot to divide by 2. It's 1081/3 or 1 in 360.333...

You're quite correct, thank you! I'll do this the long way really quick so everybody gets what we're talking about:

Here are the combinations, 34, 48 and 89, so let's look at each individually:

34: (2/47 * 1/46) = 0.00092506938

48: (2/47 * 1/46) = 0.00092506938

89: (2/47 * 1/46) = 0.00092506938

.00092506938*3 = 0.00277520814 or 1/0.00277520814 = 1 in 360.3333...

So, there you go. The possibility of hitting the SH is worth 250/360.3333 = 0.69380203579 coins by itself.

EDIT: Sorry about butchering this post so many times. The quote within a quote thing really messes me up, and, "Go Advanced," is the only way I'm comfortable, but I try to save time by not doing it and usually fuck something up.

[Mission146]

Here's one for you all. You are dealt AKQJ9 of spades on your very last bet. You have absolutely no more money to your name and can't get any. Are you holding the flush or going for the royal?

I'm going for the Royal, unless it's hearts. I don't draw well to hearts. LOL

[jbjb]

Regardless, Alan did it for the easier pay off. This, to me, would only make sense if you really, REALLY needed the money or you play very very little video poker.

Personally I hate these draws myself. Get them a lot on UX plays.

[dannyj]

Here's one for you all. You are dealt AKQJ9 of spades on your very last bet. You have absolutely no more money to your name and can't get any. Are you holding the flush or going for the royal?

The royal every time. There’s always another day.

P.S.
I’ve never been in a situation where I can’t get anymore money.

[Alan Mendelson]

Here's one for you all. You are dealt AKQJ9 of spades on your very last bet. You have absolutely no more money to your name and can't get any. Are you holding the flush or going for the royal?

The royal every time. There’s always another day.

I've asked this question. But I asked it this way: you're playing a $100/coin machine one time. Does the amount of money make a difference?

[dannyj]

Here's one for you all. You are dealt AKQJ9 of spades on your very last bet. You have absolutely no more money to your name and can't get any. Are you holding the flush or going for the royal?

The royal every time. There’s always another day.

I've asked this question. But I asked it this way: you're playing a $100/coin machine one time. Does the amount of money make a difference?

I think it might Alan. I have never played over $25 denomination. Interesting question, I guess it would depend on how I was doing for day/trip.

[slingshot]

Here's one for you all. You are dealt AKQJ9 of spades on your very last bet. You have absolutely no more money to your name and can't get any. Are you holding the flush or going for the royal?

The royal every time. There’s always another day.

I've asked this question. But I asked it this way: you're playing a $100/coin machine one time. Does the amount of money make a difference?

If it hits, I doubt if I'll worry about criticism.