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Thread: My free play results

  1. #1
    My free play. I get $50 at Red Rock twice a week. Here's the result. All warts and wrinkles included.


  2. #2
    Didn't you say you knew bonus poker almost perfect?

    Open-ended vs a high card, and you don't know if that's right? LOL

    Q vs 567ss and you held the queen. LOL

    JQSS A 10 OFF and you held the inside. LOL

    I am embarrassed for you. Not because you don't know. But because you said you knew it almost perfect. Yet, in just a few hands, while playing slow, videoing it, and then posing it... you butchered the strategy.

  3. #3
    Axel, guess again.

    Q vs suited 567. I'll hold the queen every time with no high cards in the straight flush draw. As Grochowski wrote in his book pairing any low card is meaningless. He also wrote that by holding only the queen vs three SF low cards I have four chances to pair the queen or draw another paying pair. Holding three low SF cards is too much of a long shot.

    It was different with the low card open ended straight with a king. There were 8 low cards to complete the straight. Of course you had to pick up on my comment about it being right because you'll nitpick everything I say or do to find something to criticize me about.

    And yes I held the inside straight with three high cards that could be paired. Did you read Grochowski's book?

    What did you want me to do, hold two royal cards? Talk about long shots.

  4. #4
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Axel, guess again.

    Q vs suited 567. I'll hold the queen every time with no high cards in the straight flush draw. As Grochowski wrote in his book pairing any low card is meaningless. He also wrote that by holding only the queen vs three SF low cards I have four chances to pair the queen or draw another paying pair. Holding three low SF cards is too much of a long shot.

    It was different with the low card open ended straight with a king. There were 8 low cards to complete the straight. Of course you had to pick up on my comment about it being right because you'll nitpick everything I say or do to find something to criticize me about.

    And yes I held the inside straight with three high cards that could be paired. Did you read Grochowski's book?

    What did you want me to do, hold two royal cards? Talk about long shots.
    No wonder you can't win in casinos. Just pathetic!

  5. #5
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Axel, guess again.

    Q vs suited 567. I'll hold the queen every time with no high cards in the straight flush draw. As Grochowski wrote in his book pairing any low card is meaningless. He also wrote that by holding only the queen vs three SF low cards I have four chances to pair the queen or draw another paying pair. Holding three low SF cards is too much of a long shot.

    It was different with the low card open ended straight with a king. There were 8 low cards to complete the straight. Of course you had to pick up on my comment about it being right because you'll nitpick everything I say or do to find something to criticize me about.

    And yes I held the inside straight with three high cards that could be paired. Did you read Grochowski's book?

    What did you want me to do, hold two royal cards? Talk about long shots.
    No wonder you can't win in casinos. Just pathetic!
    https://wizardofodds.com/games/video...80-d-50-d-800/

    A single high card is near the damn bottom of the list! You REALLY need to quit listening to Singer, who, undoubtedly taught you to hold just the Q here!

  6. #6
    Why is he reading books?

    I thought everyone was hip to the computer programs these days?

    Cell Phone Apps are stronger these days crunching the strategy numbers compared to a book??

    After he seen that UFO and 18 Yos in a row is his mind shot?

    Why does he use the touch screen? Doesn't he know that at times it can malfunction and unhold a card compared to using the buttons?
    He almost held 99 vs a 4 Flush.
    I suspect he has made that mistake many times over in his VP career.
    He really doesn't understand the 2 card Royal Holds!?

    How can anyone really help this guy??
    Last edited by monet; 08-16-2018 at 07:11 AM.

  7. #7
    Actually it was easier to use the touch screen because of the way I was holding my phone.

    Rob has nothing to do with how I learned Bonus and if I still had Grochowski's book I'd cite the pages.

    No, I'm not going to hold three low cards to a straight flush. I used to, until I read Grochowski's book.

    By the way I did pair the ace when I held AJQT. Again I gave myself the options for a straight and pairing three high cards... like the book said.

  8. #8
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Actually it was easier to use the touch screen because of the way I was holding my phone.

    Rob has nothing to do with how I learned Bonus and if I still had Grochowski's book I'd cite the pages.

    No, I'm not going to hold three low cards to a straight flush. I used to, until I read Grochowski's book.

    By the way I did pair the ace when I held AJQT. Again I gave myself the options for a straight and pairing three high cards... like the book said.
    Struggling with 40 hands and Recording it...

  9. #9
    Monet do you really want a fight over the buttons?
    When I use the buttons I play with both hands on the buttons, as if I'm typing. We'll one hand was holding the camera and the camera blocked my view of the buttons.

    Are you going to turn this into a five page argument?

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Actually it was easier to use the touch screen because of the way I was holding my phone.

    Rob has nothing to do with how I learned Bonus and if I still had Grochowski's book I'd cite the pages.

    No, I'm not going to hold three low cards to a straight flush. I used to, until I read Grochowski's book.

    By the way I did pair the ace when I held AJQT. Again I gave myself the options for a straight and pairing three high cards... like the book said.
    Grochowski is 100% wrong if that's what's in his book. On top of that, he's what Rob calls an "armchair gambler." A lone Q over 567 suited isnt even close. Now had you put a disclaimer saying you're use free play to chase royals or the easier to hit paying hands, nobody would fault you.

  11. #11
    Holding the Q is an easier to hit paying hand. Isn't that the objective, to get paid?

  12. #12
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Holding the Q is an easier to hit paying hand. Isn't that the objective, to get paid?
    NO, the object is to make as much as possible! I'll make way more holding 567 suited!

  13. #13
    Alan,

    You’re not helping yourself in this debate at all. I’m not trying to pile on, I’m just saying you should listen to what everyone is saying. The comments have been mostly polite.

    I think everyone has played a paytable/game badly before learning how to play it. I know I certainly have. I’m sure I would positively suck on more games/tables than I am good at. There are only a handful of games where I’m confident I could go 100 hands error free, forget about 1,000. There are only two individual paytables on two games where I even believe I could go 1,000 hands flawlessly.

    Anyway, just use the tools and try to learn the proper strategy for your game of choice. Plenty of tools out there. You don’t have to get perfect, but you definitely need to get better.
    Last edited by Mission146; 08-16-2018 at 07:42 AM.

  14. #14
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Holding the Q is an easier to hit paying hand. Isn't that the objective, to get paid?
    NO, the object is to make as much as possible! I'll make way more holding 567 suited!
    What's ironic is that I had this same discussion with Rob some years ago when he watched me play at Caesars. I was holding a high card vs three low SF cards. Rob told me the correct play was to hold the three low SF cards. I still held the high card because I wanted four chances to at least get my money back. Three low cards to a SF? Not for me after what I learned.

    This discussion is similar to the one about odds in craps. Sure your passline odds in craps have zero house advantage but they only have about a 64% chance of winning.

  15. #15
    And to answer Mission: yes I know that three small SF cards has a higher EV. But it's not more likely for me to hit a winner. That's the strategy I learned.

  16. #16
    These guys are lost causes.

    But on the bright side, he could've just picked a random slot machine, which would've been worse then the bad play in this video.

  17. #17
    Originally Posted by Mission146 View Post
    Alan,

    You’re not helping yourself in this debate at all. I’m not trying to pile on, I’m just saying you should listen to what everyone is saying. The comments have been mostly polite.

    I think everyone has played a paytable/game badly before learning how to play it. I know I certainly have. I’m sure I would positively suck on more games/tables than I am good at. There are only a handful of games where I’m confident I could go 100 hands error free, forget about 1,000. There are only two individual paytables on two games where I even believe I could go 1,000 hands flawlessly.

    Anyway, just use the tools and try to learn the proper strategy for your game of choice. Plenty of tools out there. You don’t have to get perfect, but you definitely need to get better.
    I am probably wrong because whenever I debate you I end up on the losing end.

    I just don't understand how hard it is to print up a strategy for whatever game you are playing and if you get stuck you look up the hold.

    If you are in some Casino and fear looking up a hold I would either have it on my phone or I would memorize it perfectly before I played.

    I guess the last circumstance if I have to play asap and I can't learn it and I can't look at a strategy chart on my phone or on paper.
    This sounds highly unlikely but I guess you could play and make mistakes which would be better if the promotion is pushing you way over.

    Most of what I have done for a very long time is play thin edges so I know these Advanced Strategies forwards and backwards but when I get stuck I look it up.

  18. #18
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    These guys are lost causes.

    But on the bright side, he could've just picked a random slot machine, which would've been worse then the bad play in this video.
    I can't see how you are wrong... No reason to really try to talk or teach these guys anything. They don't give a shit and they just like to argue.

    When a guy doesn't want to change the incorrect strategy because he learned the wrong strategy how can you help him?
    Even after he knows the math and how bad it is he isn't going to change it because that isn't the way he learned it!

    This is like how those BJ players stand on 16 all the time vs a 10 and they say I don't want to bust.
    I want to give the dealer the chance to bust.

  19. #19
    Originally Posted by monet View Post
    I am probably wrong because whenever I debate you I end up on the losing end.

    I just don't understand how hard it is to print up a strategy for whatever game you are playing and if you get stuck you look up the hold.

    If you are in some Casino and fear looking up a hold I would either have it on my phone or I would memorize it perfectly before I played.

    I guess the last circumstance if I have to play asap and I can't learn it and I can't look at a strategy chart on my phone or on paper.
    This sounds highly unlikely but I guess you could play and make mistakes which would be better if the promotion is pushing you way over.

    Most of what I have done for a very long time is play thin edges so I know these Advanced Strategies forwards and backwards but when I get stuck I look it up.
    You do? Comes as a surprise to me, I thought I was the one losing most of the debates.

    I agree with you 100% about printing up a strategy, especially if you're a recreational player. I don't know that I want to make a customized strategy for playing a JP promo on high denom and be sitting there with that in front of me as it would be a surefire heat magnet. I also don't know that you want to be busting out a strategy chart for borderline holds whilst vulturing UX if you're a hustler like me...my knowledge of DDB is, "Good enough for the purpose."

    But, yeah, I agree 100% that it is a great thing to have if you're playing a session and you don't have the strategy down cold. Either on the phone or on paper. Especially when it comes to the thin edges you describe. I'm pretty sure we're close to 100% in agreement on this one with only two possible points of departure:

    -I wouldn't worry about it vulturing.
    -I would hesitate to use it on a high EV promotion.

  20. #20
    If I were you use the type of strategy Alan uses, I would've just went to a $10 machine and played just one hand with the free play trying to get two pair or better.

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