Rob Singer's claims revisited

[kewlJ]

Thanks for weighing in SLaPiNFuNK.

[SLaPiNFuNK]

Thanks for weighing in SLaPiNFuNK.

(like)

[redietz]

I don't know the background to this... But yes... You can do this...

You do not need to see the entire card. You only need to see if it is a face card, ace, or more than a few pips (the number of clubs, diamonds, hearts, spades). You can definitely see the cards at the table next to you. You only need to be able to make out a tiny portion of a card to tell what it is. This is why I do not understand why if you do play poker (which you don't know how to do) you must sit next to or directly infront of the dealer to see the cards. You can not take photos like this from a cell phone, (especially your antiquated one)((and I gave you a brand new Galaxy S8 which you neglected to use)). The lens perspective is very different from the human eye so a photo is not going to be what you see.

OK, so I quoted your post SLaPiNFuNK, just to be sure it didn't disappear from the discussion.

Finally, a Mendelson, that makes some sense. You must have gotten most of your genes from your mother.

So, allow me to fill you in on some of the history to this discussion that you might be missing: When I made the comment that I try to track a second table when the opportunity presents itself and your father immediately began challenging the concept, I specifically attempted to explain it to him, explaining you only need look at "pips" and "paint". He flew off the handle, escalating his attempt to discredit me, insisting that I must have x-ray vision because no one can see the cards at the next table. And he has been on that crusade ever since, for a solid year now, despite that I have named quite a number of professional players, past and present, including some pretty known names like Don Schlesinger and Richard Munchkin that have stated they have tracked a second table for decades.

Had no effect on Alan. His mind was made up. But I'll bet you have experienced that quite a bit in your life.

For posterity, in case some ShShSh* occurs.

* Shilling Shyster Shenanigans

[Alan Mendelson]

Slapinfunk gave his opinion as a poker player. I went to a blackjack pit where the tables were arranged so that seeing cards over the lips of the table was impossible. Add in the bodies of other players that are in the way. Add in that the dealers at both tables may not be dealing at the opportune time that you could see the cards.

Sure, under perfect conditions I could differentiate a 2 from a 9 and a 6 from paint, but this is supposed to happen under playing conditions.

Someone, someone, go to a casino, sit in the middle seat as kewlj says he does, and report back. So far NO ONE has done it, not even redietz.

[SLaPiNFuNK]

Slapinfunk gave his opinion as a poker player. I went to a blackjack pit where the tables were arranged so that seeing cards over the lips of the table was impossible. Add in the bodies of other players that are in the way. Add in that the dealers at both tables may not be dealing at the opportune time that you could see the cards.

Sure, under perfect conditions I could differentiate a 2 from a 9 and a 6 from paint, but this is supposed to happen under playing conditions.

Someone, someone, go to a casino, sit in the middle seat as kewlj says he does, and report back. So far NO ONE has done it, not even redietz.

Actually... The cards used at blackjack (Poker Sized) are easier to read from a far than the decks used at Poker (Bridge Sized).

Plus the Black Jack cards are usually large faced (bigger letters) but then again, as I stated previously, you do not need to read the letters or numbers on the card. You simply need to only see the pips.

If a dealer has the stump off the table enough at a poker table I can makeout much of the card while being pitched. If a picture or what suit. It isn't perfect, but even having the knowledge of the player being dealt a red card rather than a black card can give you an "edge" at a poker game.

But yes... If you know how to read cards you can read them from across the room very easily...


Pop quiz... Who can tell me what this card is?

[kewlJ]

So, looking back, here is the way the discussion started.

August 7, 2017 11:11pm (yeah over a year now) I mentioned that I track two tables when I am able to. And yes Alan, I said "try to" in that very first post.

The following morning, Alan's first response is

What great eyes you must have to sit at one table and watch the cards at the next table.

To which I responded:

Not really Alan. It isn't hard to see the cards at the next table. The next table is usually 5 feet away. But one of the tricks, whether tracking a second table or just walking by a table and quickly picking up the count (wong in), is that you aren't necessarily focusing on the card number. There is a lot of looking at "pips" and "paint".

Notice the similarity to SLaPiNFuNK's pips and paint comment.

I don't know the background to this... But yes... You can do this...

You do not need to see the entire card. You only need to see if it is a face card, ace, or more than a few pips (the number of clubs, diamonds, hearts, spades).

After further discussion for most of that day, Alan jumped up at 3am, ran out to Ceasar's where he proceeded to take blurry pictures with his cellphone, to which I responded:

Alan, in his true dishonest nature is trying to be manipulative. In this case he is trying to use a photo from a cell phone, as comparison to what the human eye can see, when it is not even close.

Again notice the similarities to SLaPiNFuNK's comment of a cell phone to human eye comparison.

You can not take photos like this from a cell phone, (especially your antiquated one)((and I gave you a brand new Galaxy S8 which you neglected to use)). The lens perspective is very different from the human eye so a photo is not going to be what you see.

All I can say is it is good to see someone in Alan's family has some reasonable thought process. Can we switch out Mendelsons and only deal with Slappy from now on.

[Alan Mendelson]

Slapinfunk how many players are between you and your vision of the cards in the air at a poker table? Answer is zero.

Now put yourself in the middle seat of a blackjack table. What is the maximum number of players to your right at your table and at the table to your right would still give you a clear vision of the cards in play at the table on your right?

[Alan Mendelson]

Kewlj I took the pictures at Treasure Island.

But so far no one here has sat at,a blackjack table in a middle seat and reported if they could see the cards at the table on their right or left.

Slapinfunk you are ten minutes from Pechanga. Take a ride and take a seat.

[kewlJ]

Slapinfunk how many players are between you and your vision of the cards in the air at a poker table? Answer is zero.

Now put yourself in the middle seat of a blackjack table. What is the maximum number of players to your right at your table and at the table to your right would still give you a clear vision of the cards in play at the table on your right?

The number of players at the other tables is much less important than one particular seat at each table. For the table to your right it will be the second to last seat. To the table to your left it is the second seat. Those are the only seats at each table that might block your view of the playing area. And I stated very early on that if someone is in that key seat at each table, you may not be able to have a good enough sight line to track that table.

[RS__]

I'm gonna make an educated guess and say it's a 9, but may be an 8.

It's clearly not an A, 2, 3, or 4. On a 5, the pips would be further away. A 6 doesn't have a "center" pip. The "opposite" facing pips on a 7 don't have a pip in between them, the 4 surrounding pips on a 7 are oriented the same way as the center pip. It could be an 8, although the spacing looks more like that of a 9. It's not a 10 because both of the "center" pips on a 10 are surrounded by 4 pips that go in the same direction.



I've played at one table and counted the table next to me several times. I would generally only do it if it was "easy" to do, since my counting skillz have never been top notch. But if I was at a slow table, next to a slow table, with a view, sure, why not? But I wouldn't try to look around people or anything like that...or according to Alan, use X-ray vision. lol

[Alan Mendelson]

One more question for slapinfunk. Do you think you could watch the cards at the other table without being detected as a card counter? Can you see the other table without being obvious about what you're doing?

[kewlJ]

Alan, you don't play blackjack. You don't count cards. Near as I can tell, you may not see that well.

I play blackjack 300+ days a year. I have made a living counting cards for 15 years now. And I have pretty darn good vision.

I am through arguing this with you. It's just another case of you arguing something you just have no clue about.

[Alan Mendelson]

By the way kewlj. I held the phone at eye level while sitting in a middle seat to illustrate the angle of view. This is why I ask everyone to go to a casino, sit in the middle seat as you said you do, and report back.

[Alan Mendelson]

True kewlj I don't play blackjack and I don't count cards, but I know if you're in the middle seat of a curved table that you will have to turn your head and possibly need xray vision to see the cards at the next table. I have not seen blackjack tables neatly arranged in a group to allow anyone to casually peer at the neighboring table. My photo at Treasure Island showed the tables in a straight line. How could you see the next table without turning your head at the middle seat? How many turns could you make without being detected?

[kewlJ]

True kewlj I don't play blackjack and I don't count cards, but I know if you're in the middle seat of a curved table that you will have to turn your head and possibly need xray vision to see the cards at the next table. I have not seen blackjack tables neatly arranged in a group to allow anyone to casually peer at the neighboring table. My photo at Treasure Island showed the tables in a straight line. How could you see the next table without turning your head at the middle seat? How many turns could you make without being detected?

The photo was actually taken at Mirage, not that it matters (I just went back and looked).

The curve of the table is actually what makes it possible to see the neighboring table, just by turning your head slightly or in some cases, just your eyes.

You just don't know what you are talking about Alan. Above you said that you couldn't see over the "lip" of the table. You would have to be 3 feet tall to not see over the lip of the table. You just don't know of which you speak.

[mcap]

As an anonymous forum poster you have the ultimate advantage: you can lie without getting caught. LOL

Poor alan is jealous.

Hi buddy

[MaxPen]

True kewlj I don't play blackjack and I don't count cards, but I know if you're in the middle seat of a curved table that you will have to turn your head and possibly need xray vision to see the cards at the next table. I have not seen blackjack tables neatly arranged in a group to allow anyone to casually peer at the neighboring table. My photo at Treasure Island showed the tables in a straight line. How could you see the next table without turning your head at the middle seat? How many turns could you make without being detected?

Alan, your helmet is coming loose again. Can you please just sit down and eat your crayons? You can lick the windows if you want.

[SLaPiNFuNK]

Slapinfunk how many players are between you and your vision of the cards in the air at a poker table? Answer is zero.

Now put yourself in the middle seat of a blackjack table. What is the maximum number of players to your right at your table and at the table to your right would still give you a clear vision of the cards in play at the table on your right?

I was using that as an example to show you don't need to see much of the card to know what it is. A split second view of a card is all I need to know what it is. Stationary on a table can see them even clearer.

[SLaPiNFuNK]

Kewlj I took the pictures at Treasure Island.

But so far no one here has sat at,a blackjack table in a middle seat and reported if they could see the cards at the table on their right or left.

Slapinfunk you are ten minutes from Pechanga. Take a ride and take a seat.

I don't need to. I know what all 52 cards look like in a deck. I only need to see an 1/8th of a card to know what it is let alone having them laid out on a stationary table.

Do you know what a stop sign looks like from a block away?

[SLaPiNFuNK]

I'm gonna make an educated guess and say it's a 9, but may be an 8.

It's clearly not an A, 2, 3, or 4. On a 5, the pips would be further away. A 6 doesn't have a "center" pip. The "opposite" facing pips on a 7 don't have a pip in between them, the 4 surrounding pips on a 7 are oriented the same way as the center pip. It could be an 8, although the spacing looks more like that of a 9. It's not a 10 because both of the "center" pips on a 10 are surrounded by 4 pips that go in the same direction.



I've played at one table and counted the table next to me several times. I would generally only do it if it was "easy" to do, since my counting skillz have never been top notch. But if I was at a slow table, next to a slow table, with a view, sure, why not? But I wouldn't try to look around people or anything like that...or according to Alan, use X-ray vision. lol

It is an 8. 7 the pips are the same direction and spaced the same. Very good.