Rob Singer's claims revisited

[Moses]

LOL Good stuff Coach. I prefer the Leon Russell (piano player) look.

Alan; No. No. Yes. Yes. No. But if all fairness to KJ: Do you think you could tell how many 2-4s have been played and still remain, 5-7s, 8-9, tens, Aces in a two card deck? Easy for me, as buttering a poptart.

I'd have to see it to believe it. But KJ won't let that happen and I don't blame him. I hate it when people watch me play.

[kewlJ]

Oh good moses, you have endeared yourself to Alan. You are his new best friend because you don't track a second table.

But moses plays single deck blackjack in northern Nevada. Tracking and jumping to a second table isn't conducive to single deck blackjack. You might get 1 round in before the shuffle. Tracking multiple tables is an approach best suited for shoe (6 and 8 deck) games, so I am not surprised Moses hasn't looked into this technique. He focuses on whatever technique is better suited for single deck play.

But Alan will spin it differently, dishonestly as he always does.

[Moses]

Oh good moses, you have endeared yourself to Alan. You are his new best friend because you don't track a second table.
:

I think can't is a better word than don't. I can do alot of things with counting, memory retention, ratios, percentages, that evidently others cannot perform. But this is beyond my ability to perform. Can you run the 100 yard dash in 11 seconds? I can't either. But there was a time not too long ago. lol

[kewlJ]

Oh good moses, you have endeared yourself to Alan. You are his new best friend because you don't track a second table.
:

I think can't is a better word than don't. I can do alot of things with counting, memory retention, ratios, percentages, that evidently others cannot perform. But this is beyond my ability to perform.

It's not as hard as you think moses. I'll bet if you were playing shoe games you would start doing so. Actually when I started, it wasn't even a conscious decision. I didn't say "hey I think I will count the table next to me". You just start looking a round, especially if the dealer or other player aren't very fast, and you just sort of notice what is going on at the next table. Next thing you know you see 3 or 4 rounds with many small cards on the felt and you say "hey that is a much better opportunity than this negative or neutral count that I am stuck with for the next 15 rounds". Before you know it you are frequently tracking a second table.

But again, this is really a shoe thing. It just won't be beneficial for Single deck. Not even beneficial for double deck that I play on occasion.

[Moses]

Interesting KJ. I'm not trying to grill you. IYO is this a common activity for shoe counters we know in common? Im curious enough to pay a little closer attention to shoe tables. Don't worry i wouldn't stand and stare. I pick up on things in a millisecond that some take a minute or totally miss.

[kewlJ]

Interesting KJ. I'm not trying to grill you. IYO is this a common activity for shoe counters we know in common? Im curious enough to pay a little closer attention to shoe tables.

It is a form of 'wonging in' otherwise known as back counting. I don't question other counters as to who uses this technique or that technique. I do happen to know a few counters that we know that do it because I posted that thread, after Alan decided that it was impossible. I wanted to see just who else might be doing it as well.

Turned out Richard Munchkin had been doing it for years. I actually knew that from private discussions. But by posting that thread, I found out that 21forme has also been doing so for years and Don Schlesinger for....I think he said 40 years. In the mirror discussion at Norm's site, there were several more players that stated they also track a second table. Not all the time of course, but when they can. I forget exactly who. I am sure members we both know, since we were both on that site for many years.

I think...can't swear to it, but I think bigplayer may have mentioned tracking a second table at one time. That would make sense since bigplayer was/is a longtime member of one of the very famous BJ teams (not MIT). BJ teams use the call in approach with spotters. Tracking a second table is basically the same thing except you are playing both roles, spotter and call-in player.

[Moses]

I dunno Alan. It sounds preposterus and without logic. However, I've read KJ's posts for over 5 years on a several different forums. I will say this, KJ remains consistent. He stands up for what he believes in and not wavered when odds were stacked against from other posters. Including me being a huge adversary. He has paid the price for what he does, says, and believes. Therefore, I give him a pass. There is no logical reason for him to lie either.

Trust me, I read many posts from bullshitter extraordinaires over the years. IMO, KJ speaks the truth. More power to you KJ.

[kewlJ]

I dunno Alan. It sounds preposterus and without logic. However, I've read KJ's posts for over 5 years on a several different forums. I will say this, KJ remains consistent. He stands up for what he believes in and not wavered when odds were stacked against from other posters. Including me being a huge adversary. He has paid the price for what he does, says, and believes. Therefore, I give him a pass. There is no logical reason for him to lie either.

Trust me, I read many posts from bullshitter extraordinaires over the years. IMO, KJ speaks the truth. More power to you KJ.

Thank you moses. I appreciate that.

[Alan Mendelson]

I dunno Alan. It sounds preposterus and without logic. However, I've read KJ's posts for over 5 years on a several different forums. I will say this, KJ remains consistent. He stands up for what he believes in and not wavered when odds were stacked against from other posters. Including me being a huge adversary. He has paid the price for what he does, says, and believes. Therefore, I give him a pass. There is no logical reason for him to lie either.

Trust me, I read many posts from bullshitter extraordinaires over the years. IMO, KJ speaks the truth. More power to you KJ.

I understand. And you should understand why I never backed down from my report that I saw a random shooter throw 18 yos in a row at a table at Caesars Palace. There was no logical reason for me to lie either. I had no skin in the game. In fact I was a jerk for not betting a single buck on 11.

[RS__]

I dunno Alan. It sounds preposterus and without logic. However, I've read KJ's posts for over 5 years on a several different forums. I will say this, KJ remains consistent. He stands up for what he believes in and not wavered when odds were stacked against from other posters. Including me being a huge adversary. He has paid the price for what he does, says, and believes. Therefore, I give him a pass. There is no logical reason for him to lie either.

Trust me, I read many posts from bullshitter extraordinaires over the years. IMO, KJ speaks the truth. More power to you KJ.

I understand. And you should understand why I never backed down from my report that I saw a random shooter throw 18 yos in a row at a table at Caesars Palace. There was no logical reason for me to lie either. I had no skin in the game. In fact I was a jerk for not betting a single buck on 11.

When has that EVER stopped you?

[Moses]

I understand. And you should understand why I never backed down from my report that I saw a random shooter throw 18 yos in a row at a table at Caesars Palace. There was no logical reason for me to lie either. I had no skin in the game. In fact I was a jerk for not betting a single buck on 11.

I'm pretty much from the "Hmmm, never saw that one before" daily world. For instance, I'm sitting with a rather large bet on Cubs in a 1-1 Suspended extra inning game to be finished this morning. Currently, I have no idea if my ticket is good or if it's going to be treated as a wash. If it's still good, then I consider it a high value IF they don't adjust the price. Doesn't mean I will win.

People will do and say alot of things. In my world, I'd say it's about 90% bullshit. Maybe I need to change my world? The shoe game itself boggles my mind as to how anyone could compete. But as long as others or myself are not harmed, then what the hell does it matter?

By comparison, KJ is pretty much a straight shooter. My belief of this derives from his best work on another site. He pretty much stood alone for right(s) versus wrong as I'm currently doing on that site. In short, there are some real creeps out there that use unsuspecting naive people for personal financial gain. There stories are wild and unbelievable.

The truth shall set you free? Well, I don't know about that. But I'm certain, first hand, that lies and deception will put one and others in bondage for a very long time - maybe forever. I guess that is what I'm standing against.

[kewlJ]

By comparison, KJ is pretty much a straight shooter. My belief of this derives from his best work on another site. He pretty much stood alone for right(s) versus wrong as I'm currently doing on that site. In short, there are some real creeps out there that use unsuspecting naive people for personal financial gain. There stories are wild and unbelievable.

Again, I thank you for the kind words moses. From my online presence on a number of forums, there are a few people that seem to big fans of me...not so much here, but on other sites. And there are some that just really dislike me. Some of those are here. I seem to rub some people the wrong way.

I have several reasons why I participate in the AP/gambling community. As I have said on numerous occasions, I want to share my experiences, my journey and what little knowledge I have accumulated along the way just as others did for me a decade ago when I was starting. It is my hope that others, especially guys just starting out, can and have benefited.

Second thing is I believe we (somewhat successful AP's) have a responsibility to call out some of the bullshit claims that are made, as I did with the phony super-duper count guy on the blackjack site that lead to my banning there and at WoV and as I do with this Rob Singer person here. I don't challenge every claim that I hear. Lot's of times I read something and say to myself "I find THAT hard to believe" or "that is just not credible" and say nothing. But the really egregious claims that really mislead other players...you know the kind where someone has gone to a whole elaborate story with phony math and/or formulas and usually speaks in code words and circles attempting to muddy the waters....THAT I feel I must call out and I do. It is just not fair to other players, not to. I am not trying to protect the world, I just think there is some responsibility to call out this kind of elaborate, intentional bullshit.

And third, I am probably too insecure, and don't like it when people say things about me that aren't true, and feel the need to answer back. I would probably be better off to not engage with these kind of trolls, but I guess I just haven't figure that out yet or am not strong enough to ignore them. Hopefully I will grow into that.

So as I said, there are people on these forums that just don't like me. I guess I have rubbed them the wrong way, one way or another. (insert Michael Scott...that's what she/he said joke here). It is not often when someone like you, who has stated that they generally don't like me, says something like "KJ is a straight shooter", or "that they find me very credible" as MrV and LarryS, who are no fans, have on occasion said. That really means a lot to me. So again, thank you.

[Moses]

Quick story: I remember in junior high, a neighbor kid got a pair of boxing gloves for his Birthday. So he wanted to try them out even though he had no idea how to box. Well, I had a good time. But the next day his gloves were in the trash. Evidently, it wasn't so much fun for him getting hit as it was me delivering.

A couple of points to this story. It's the same thing for blackjack in a casino. They really don't like getting hit. I (or we) understand that getting hit is part of the process to profit. The difference is my strategy is also really good at ducking. So my job is like a paper route. Somedays I'm done by 2pm because delivering more hits might find them putting their gloves in the trash tomorrow. They don't understand the process.

Well, on those days, there is still a helluva lot of daylight to fill. I might go to a movie or go watch a game in the sportsbook. Now, what I've noticed is the guys in the sportsbook are very similar to those that write on the forums. Great group of guys. But the stories tend to grow.

It's important to discern what is fun versus what is damaging. The latter most guys just get up and walk away. I've learned (the hard way) not to be the last one sitting at the table with a bullshitter. lol

From what I've read here, it's a fun bunch of guys. You must remember how serious and boring it was on another site (sight). I don't know a thing about machines, so for me, the reading is pure enjoyment.

Let's take Zee for example. To say he pisses people off would be an understatement. No? In a sportsbook, guys would exit the table in record time. But on a forum it can go on for years. So KJ, my advice is you've got become a better ducker. Someday, you'll be an expert ducker and people will refer to you as a mother ducker. lol

[AxelWolf]

I dunno Alan. It sounds preposterus and without logic. However, I've read KJ's posts for over 5 years on a several different forums. I will say this, KJ remains consistent. He stands up for what he believes in and not wavered when odds were stacked against from other posters. Including me being a huge adversary. He has paid the price for what he does, says, and believes. Therefore, I give him a pass. There is no logical reason for him to lie either.

Trust me, I read many posts from bullshitter extraordinaires over the years. IMO, KJ speaks the truth. More power to you KJ.

I understand. And you should understand why I never backed down from my report that I saw a random shooter throw 18 yos in a row at a table at Caesars Palace. There was no logical reason for me to lie either. I had no skin in the game. In fact I was a jerk for not betting a single buck on 11.

Why did you lie about your son hitting 5 single line royals in one day? I know why, but I thought I would ask you anyways since I like hearing a good yarn. You never backed down from that untill the truth came out. You were so sure it happend that you wanted to put money on the line.

[kewlJ]

Why did you lie about your son hitting 5 single line royals in one day? I know why, but I thought I would ask you anyways since I like hearing a good yarn. You never backed down from that untill the truth came out. You were so sure it happend that you wanted to put money on the line.

Axelwolf, I don't understand why you are making such a big issue about this? Nobody thinks Alan is generally dishonest more than I, but I just don't see this as that huge of a deal. So he exaggerated, including a couple royal that were not "single line Royals" into the claim. Real "gamblers", degenerate type gamblers, like Alan clearly is, have that excitement factor concerning jackpot wins and I think often exaggerate as Alan did here and I am quite sure as he did with the 18 y.o.'s in a row.


I sort of build that into the equation when I know I am dealing with these type of gamblers making such a claim. Why is this such a big issue for you? What am I missing? You say "you think you know why he did this" so tell us what you are thinking?

[Moses]

I have several reasons why I participate in the AP/gambling community. As I have said on numerous occasions, I want to share my experiences, my journey and what little knowledge I have accumulated along the way just as others did for me a decade ago when I was starting. It is my hope that others, especially guys just starting out, can and have benefited.

Second thing is I believe we (somewhat successful AP's) have a responsibility to call out some of the bullshit claims that are made, as I did with the phony super-duper count guy on the blackjack site that lead to my banning there and at WoV and as I do with this Rob Singer person here. I don't challenge every claim that I hear. Lot's of times I read something and say to myself "I find THAT hard to believe" or "that is just not credible" and say nothing. But the really egregious claims that really mislead other players...you know the kind where someone has gone to a whole elaborate story with phony math and/or formulas and usually speaks in code words and circles attempting to muddy the waters....THAT I feel I must call out and I do. It is just not fair to other players, not to. I am not trying to protect the world, I just think there is some responsibility to call out this kind of elaborate, intentional bullshit.
.

Be careful with that first paragrah KJ. Not that you need advice from me. But I have seen, with my own two peepers, a guy come up and ask for an opinion on a sports bet. Then, want to take it outside with the guy who provided his opinion because he lost. Of course, I live in the Entitlement capitol of the world.

Now, I wouldn't know Rob Singer from Rod Stewart. Wake up Maggie. lol But the super-duper count guy T3? It seems there are many inconsistencies as I've tried to follow along. It could simply be above my capability to absorb all that he is saying. But if I can't get it, how the hell would a newbie understand? I've picked up somethings long the way to add. At the very least, he is an interesting cat?

[Alan Mendelson]

Two comments for AxelWolf and Kewlj.

1. Yes, I was at the table and watched the random shooter roll 18 yos in a row and heard the stickman keep count and watched as he checked the dice. I stand by what I saw and heard.

2. While Jason and I spent that time together in Vegas I did not play next to him so I did not personally see him hit the four single line royals nor his W2Gs with the exception of the royal at Gold Strike which preceded our drive to Caesars. The only royal and hand pay I saw was at Gold Strike as the machine I was playing was only a few feet from where Jason was playing.

[MaxPen]

Two comments for AxelWolf and Kewlj.

1. Yes, I was at the table and watched the random shooter roll 18 yos in a row and heard the stickman keep count and watched as he checked the dice. I stand by what I saw and heard.

2. While Jason and I spent that time together in Vegas I did not play next to him so I did not personally see him hit the four single line royals nor his W2Gs with the exception of the royal at Gold Strike which preceded our drive to Caesars. The only royal and hand pay I saw was at Gold Strike as the machine I was playing was only a few feet from where Jason was playing.

Geeze, let it rest already. You are making yourself look even more pathetic.

[RS__]

Two comments for AxelWolf and Kewlj.

1. Yes, I was at the table and watched the random shooter roll 18 yos in a row and heard the stickman keep count and watched as he checked the dice. I stand by what I saw and heard.

2. While Jason and I spent that time together in Vegas I did not play next to him so I did not personally see him hit the four single line royals nor his W2Gs with the exception of the royal at Gold Strike which preceded our drive to Caesars. The only royal and hand pay I saw was at Gold Strike as the machine I was playing was only a few feet from where Jason was playing.

Four?!

I thought he hit 1 single line, 1 on triple play, and 1 on that other game (the 5 + 2 cards game).

[Moses]

I understand. And you should understand why I never backed down from my report that I saw a random shooter throw 18 yos in a row at a table at Caesars Palace. There was no logical reason for me to lie either. I had no skin in the game. In fact I was a jerk for not betting a single buck on 11.

I'm pretty much from the "Hmmm, never saw that one before" daily world. For instance, I'm sitting with a rather large bet on Cubs in a 1-1 Suspended extra inning game to be finished this morning. Currently, I have no idea if my ticket is good or if it's going to be treated as a wash. If it's still good, then I consider it a high value IF they don't adjust the price. Doesn't mean I will win.

People will do and say alot of things. In my world, I'd say it's about 90% bullshit. Maybe I need to change my world? The shoe game itself boggles my mind as to how anyone could compete. But as long as others or myself are not harmed, then what the hell does it matter?

By comparison, KJ is pretty much a straight shooter. My belief of this derives from his best work on another site. He pretty much stood alone for right(s) versus wrong as I'm currently doing on that site. In short, there are some real creeps out there that use unsuspecting naive people for personal financial gain. There stories are wild and unbelievable.

The truth shall set you free? Well, I don't know about that. But I'm certain, first hand, that lies and deception will put one and others in bondage for a very long time - maybe forever. I guess that is what I'm standing against.

Damn. It's a push.