I'm convinced that if Alan were to bust in a poker tournament holding A,A and losing to 7,2 offsuit, he'd NEVER play A,A again.
I'm convinced that if Alan were to bust in a poker tournament holding A,A and losing to 7,2 offsuit, he'd NEVER play A,A again.
You’re hurting my soul. He shoves, you fold and he wins what...one BB? Maybe he caught a read on you that told him you had complete junk and he wanted to try to get something for his aces. He was probably hoping you’d catch a lower pair or maybe some kind of draw that would have him in a superior position but with more money in.
Anyway, there are plenty of reasons one might slow play pocket rockets.
Were there any callers before it came around to him? If so, how many? That would make a pretty big difference.
But, if no callers and I think I read you for a bad hand, then I’d slow play from SB and just limp in. Hell, maybe you’ll try to steal it from me...that’d be nice.
Actually he was the small blind, there was one other player. The SB with AA bet big after the flop and I called but did not raise. I don't know what he was thinking. Im sure he thought evetyone at the table had junk compared to his rockets. How many players fold rockets?
By, "One other player," I take it you mean one other caller. I don't understand the move, then. If Axelwolf disagrees with me on this one, then you should defer to his opinion over mine. DEFINITELY defer to Dan Druff's opinion over mine if he disagrees with me.
If I'm the SB and I have a caller, then if I'm not going to just shove AA, I definitely want to try to get at least one of you out of the hand. With two hands against mine, there are going to be a lot of flops that are going to scare me a bit. If you do limp, now you have to be really willing to fold if it's called for...and you know and I know that's going to be a near-impossible lay down for most people.
I think a really great player could still limp that to try to get more value. I don't think I'm anywhere good enough to get away with that because I don't think I have it in me to make either the read or the subsequent lay down if it becomes necessary...and that's why I'm not a NLHE cash game player...or really a player of any other kind anymore.
If the SB has rockets and two callers with the BB still to act, then I see no way to limp in there.
I don't know. Hopefully Axel and Dan Druff chime in on this one. I'm really interested in what Dan Druff has to say here.
Read Mike Caro's book. He is a big proponent for slow playing aces. Look the guy got caught. Accidents happen. He actually played correctly.
We chickens make big bets with AA and we scare away the customers. I certainly would have folded my 92 to any raise and the other player (caller) likely would have folded unless he held AA, KK, QQ, JJ which isn't likely since he called and didn't raise either.
You should not limp in with AA unless you think an aggressive opponent to your left will raise you, and then call your reraise.
Otherwise, limping with AA is a disaster, because it is impossible to put the blinds on a hand, and fairly difficult to put the non-blinds on a hand.
Without the ability to put people on a hand, it makes it much tougher to make good laydowns, and you're not likely to extract all that much money with the AA unless you flop a set and they also hit something.
AA's greatest strength is making a lot of money preflop, either from all-ins or by pot committing your oppponent with another pocket pair when both of you flop an underboard.
Limping with AA from the SB isn't quite as bad, because the BB calls a ton of hands to a SB raise anyway, so you're still dealing with having a hard time putting them on a hand even if you raise and they call. Additionally, blinds don't tend to trust each other regarding actually having a hand, so sometimes you can still extract decent money when your opponent on the other blind flops top pair or middle pair. However, you can't commit too much, because they easily could have flopped a funny two pair on you.
Bottom line is that, in general, if you always raise with AA and never limp with it, then you're probably playing correctly preflop.
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I have no idea what Alan's skill level is, but he would hardly be the first player to check his cards before his turn to act that I've ever seen...and I don't play much.
He could also be playing Alan's tendencies. Maybe he knows that Alan is tight pre-flop, if that's the case. I don't know the exact situation, I'm just saying that the guy may have been doing it for a reason that had something to do with what he thinks Alan is likely to do.
You call it the wrong strategy. I think it's strategy that makes sense. I'm sorry you see it differently. So okay we disagree.
Regarding AA: the best strategy is always to slow play AA. What was the SB going to do? Should he have pushed pre flop to win my BB and one caller?
With only two other players he HAD to slow play his AA and unfortunately my junk hit. That's poker. (Isn't that the saying?)
If you only called the BB and then someone shoves you had better fold anything besides AA or KK.
"More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ
Although the game is different, the concept is the same. You'll get more back holding the straight flush draw. You CANNOT be results oriented in gambling. That's why I used the AA vs 72 analogy. Read this:
https://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/gamb...ey-back-often/
Dan Druff,
Cool, thanks for the answer! Having you basically agree with me on that one makes me feel somewhat validated as I'm not usually too comfortable talking about poker.
In Alan's case, there was one caller, so you would definitely not limp the aces as the SB. It seems that you're saying you could make an argument for limping in if everyone folds around to the SB and the SB has the rockets, right? My thinking would be if I know the BB is really conservative and has a very narrow range of calling hands, then I would want to go ahead and limp in and, as you pointed out, hope that he catches top pair or middle pair.
There's also always the chance that the BB takes you for a weak hand and tries to steal one from you pre-flop.
I do agree that a player isn't wrong just to always raise AA.
You would only limp with AA in a SB/BB confrontation if one of the following is true:
1) You think the BB is aggressive and will raise your limp, and you can then re-raise him (though this will pretty much give away that you have a strong hand)
-or-
2) You're looking to deceive your opponent into believing you have a weak hand, thus calling your flop bets with only a small piece of it
But you're really just better off raising here.
Why?
First off, most good players will raise the SB in a SB/BB confrontation with a very wide range of hands (even some below average ones), so raising is not giving anything away.
Second, and somewhat related to the first, you might get 3-bet, which will then allow you to 4-bet, and possibly get a call if they have something decent.
Third, against certain opponents who will fold trash in the BB to a SB raise, you are helping yourself put them on a hand if they call your preflop raise. So if the board comes 842, you know they probably don't have 84, 42, or 82, which is useful information.
Fourth, and this is sometimes over looked, is that you actually WANT your opponent to have big cards, and those are the ones most likely to call your preflop raise. Not only does AA crush big-card and high pocket pair holdings heads up, but AA is also likely to extract a lot of money against them postflop. When AA faces a hand like 74o, the pot is usually only getting pumped up postflop when the AA is behind (such as being against a straight, trips, or 2 pair), and obviously you don't want that. So it's not even a huge deal if a hand like that folds to you pre, as you're not likely to get a lot of chips from them postflop anyway. Compare this to hands like AK (wins 5% of the time against AA) or KQ, where if they flop something like top pair, you're still getting good money from them, and your chances to win are high. Bottom line is that it's not a tragedy if junk hands fold against your AA prefop from the blinds. The strongest hand against AA is 67 suited (different suited than both aces) -- still an underdog, but the best thing to have against AA in a heads up runout.
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