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Thread: Card-Counting Is A Waste Of Time For Real Profitting

  1. #121
    KJ. We have been through the typical phases already.

    Alan doesn’t understand some basic concept.

    People explain, first in cliffs notes, then in excruciating detail.

    Alan still doesn’t understand.

    We were almost up to the phase when Alan says “BS!” And Robbie chimes in denouncing and/or insulting all the people who tried to explain things to Alan.

    But you introduced a few new concepts which will be unfamiliar to Alan, and we will have to start all over.

    Let it go.

  2. #122
    Ha! He practically got to the “That’s BS” phase while I was typing.

  3. #123
    There was a point I was going to say even Alan could win at craps with a 20% rebate, but I guess not.

  4. #124
    Originally Posted by Dankyone View Post
    There was a point I was going to say even Alan could win at craps with a 20% rebate, but I guess not.
    Is a 20% rebate on losses going to influence the dice to show winning numbers?

  5. #125
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    "Johnson had shown up at the casino with two guys in tow and a pair of hot looking girls....things got hopping enough that the pit-boss failed to recognize Johnson CARD COUNTING, the guy next to him catching glimpses of the dealer's HOLE CARDS, and another collaborator SEQUENCING THE DECK, telling Johnson when strong cards would be coming his way. Besides serving as distractions, the good-looking girls made small bets and ate cards when THE COUNT got bad.
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Belly, you cherry picked some quotes out of the 888 article to make your case but you conveniently left the above passage out of it. And you and Rob are ignoring it because it doesn't fit your narrative.
    I don't have a narrative, I originally asked how the loss rebate
    could have affected his results if he didn't use it.

    I understand that the 888 piece claimed that DJ counted cards,
    but in the GWAE interview he denied counting, so I'm not sure what your point is.

    Which story do you believe...the one that fits your narrative?

    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    I was not aware that James Grosjean was involved in any way.
    Nobody here is aware that Grosjean was involved,
    they are assuming it based upon a photo credit on 888.

    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    if he was, I can almost guarantee, Johnson was applying some sort of advantage play technique. Probably not card counting though.
    Others are insisting that DJ used card-counting in AC,
    and it was Grosjean AKA "Andy" who helped him.

    But Andy was not in AC with DJ.

    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    I can also guarantee Atlantic City casinos involved were watching a player betting $100,000 a hand checking for card counting. Hey I played Atlantic City the first 5 and a half years of my career, so I know they would be looking for that from a player of this size stakes.
    Could a player use card-counting spreading techniques while betting $25K+ per hand
    without being detected, and either backed off or flat-betted?

    Is it likely that a dealer at a $100K max table would expose his hole cards,
    like some rookie dealer?

    Could DJ have beaten the AC casinos for $15 mil, then get loss rebates in Vegas?
    Wouldn't word have gotten to LV?

    Can a player sit down at a high stakes table with Grosjean in Las Vegas
    and not draw scrutiny?

  6. #126
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    As a matter of fact you don't know if I lost money or not in the years I hit $100k royals no matter what I said on this forum.
    The sound you just heard was jbjb's whole world crumbling.

  7. #127
    Originally Posted by coach belly View Post
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    As a matter of fact you don't know if I lost money or not in the years I hit $100k royals no matter what I said on this forum.
    The sound you just heard was jbjb's whole world crumbling.
    Believe me or not, but I hope Alan is 'not' telling the truth that he's never had a winning year. But that's irrelevant. What he's done LIFETIME is all that matters. Personally, I don't care. The only time I want someone to lose is when I need that seat and Alan has never occupied it.
    Last edited by jbjb; 08-29-2018 at 07:58 PM.

  8. #128
    Originally Posted by coach belly View Post
    Can a player sit down at a high stakes table with Grosjean in Las Vegas
    and not draw scrutiny?
    No. I don't believe Grosjean can get much play in Las Vegas. With his reputation and being known as he is, even if casino personnel couldn't figure out what he was doing, they wouldn't let him play for long. And you are correct, we don't know for sure if he was involved. But if he was, the fact that he is so known is likely why he wasn't at the table with Johnson. That would have been a huge flashing light.


    Now I know, I was just told I shouldn't continue to try to explain anything to Alan, but....here goes.

    Alan, I am going to move the analogy to roulette, because I don't play craps. I think even you will get this. You say to benefit from a loss rebate you have to lose. There is truth in that, but everyone knows everyone loses some. I lose sometimes (even with an advantage)….make that regularly....EVEN with an advantage. But, let me try to stay on point.

    So roulette. You are betting a $100 a spin, betting black. Each time you win you win $100. Each time you lose you lose $100, BUT the casino gives you back $20, for a loss of $80. So win $100. Lose $80. You don't think you would be playing with a big advantage?

    That is what a loss rebate is. Just not paid after every round. But works the same way. Winning sessions you win 100%. Losing sessions you lose 80%. Huge advantage.
    Last edited by kewlJ; 08-29-2018 at 08:09 PM.

  9. #129
    Kewlj wrote: "You say to benefit from a loss rebate you have to lose."

    No. I did not say that. You have to WIN. A loss rebate by itself does not make you win, but it only makes you lose less. Unless you are winning bets the loss rebates only let you lose slower.

    And loss rebates do not impact your chances of winning whether it be blackjack, craps, roulette or Pickup Stix.

    Kewlj if you are betting black will a 20% loss rebate make black hit?

    What a loss rebate is, and only is, is a discount on your losses. If you want to call that an advantage then I guess losing less than the next guy is.

  10. #130
    A tard is gonna tard. Looks like KJ doesn't understand and needs a crash helmet now. Maybe Mission will lend him his.

  11. #131
    Every true advantage play helps you win a bet. I'll give you examples:

    Card counting, distracting a dealer, hole carding, edge sorting, changing betting rules, clocking a Roulette wheel, identifying an unbalanced roulette wheel, getting a craps dealer to let you slide the dice.

    These are all advantage plays and they can help you win.

    Now, some of you are insisting that loss rebates help you win. So tell me, how do loss rebates impact the cards, dice or wheel to increase your chances of winning?

    Or are you telling me that when you lose less because of a loss rebate that that constitutes some kind of an advantage even though it doesn't help you to win the next bet?

    I invite troll MaxPen to contribute something meaningful and to reply first. Go ahead MaxPen and show me you're smarter than a foul mouthed fourth grader.

  12. #132
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by coach belly View Post
    Can a player sit down at a high stakes table with Grosjean in Las Vegas
    and not draw scrutiny?
    No. I don't believe Grosjean can get much play in Las Vegas. With his reputation and being known as he is, even if casino personnel couldn't figure out what he was doing, they wouldn't let him play for long. And you are correct, we don't know for sure if he was involved. But if he was, the fact that he is so known is likely why he wasn't at the table with Johnson. That would have been a huge flashing light.


    Now I know, I was just told I shouldn't continue to try to explain anything to Alan, but....here goes.

    Alan, I am going to move the analogy to roulette, because I don't play craps. I think even you will get this. You say to benefit from a loss rebate you have to lose. There is truth in that, but everyone knows everyone loses some. I lose sometimes (even with an advantage)….make that regularly....EVEN with an advantage. But, let me try to stay on point.

    So roulette. You are betting a $100 a spin, betting black. Each time you win you win $100. Each time you lose you lose $100, BUT the casino gives you back $20, for a loss of $80. So win $100. Lose $80. You don't think you would be playing with a big advantage?

    That is what a loss rebate is. Just not paid after every round. But works the same way. Winning sessions you win 100%. Losing sessions you lose 80%. Huge advantage.
    Everyone knows Alan will claim he seen a guy doing that and witnessed it landing on 18 greens in a row (and of course didn't bet it).

  13. #133
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Every true advantage play helps you win a bet. I'll give you examples:

    Card counting, distracting a dealer, hole carding, edge sorting, changing betting rules, clocking a Roulette wheel, identifying an unbalanced roulette wheel, getting a craps dealer to let you slide the dice.

    These are all advantage plays and they can help you win.

    Now, some of you are insisting that loss rebates help you win. So tell me, how do loss rebates impact the cards, dice or wheel to increase your chances of winning?

    Or are you telling me that when you lose less because of a loss rebate that that constitutes some kind of an advantage even though it doesn't help you to win the next bet?

    I invite troll MaxPen to contribute something meaningful and to reply first. Go ahead MaxPen and show me you're smarter than a foul mouthed fourth grader.
    Alan, it has already been explained ad nauseum by Mission and KJ. If you can't get it from them, I can't help you. Plus I'm smart enough to recognize up front that you are a fool. Hence the name issued to you early on, MendelFool. Your attempt to bait me has failed just like your feeble attempts to be a father and man of your word to your son.

  14. #134
    Originally Posted by coach belly View Post



    I don't have a narrative, I originally asked how the loss rebate
    could have affected his results if he didn't use it.

    I understand that the 888 piece claimed that DJ counted cards,
    but in the GWAE interview he denied counting, so I'm not sure what your point is.

    Which story do you believe...the one that fits your narrative?

    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    I was not aware that James Grosjean was involved in any way.
    Nobody here is aware that Grosjean was involved,
    they are assuming it based upon a photo credit on 888.

    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    if he was, I can almost guarantee, Johnson was applying some sort of advantage play technique. Probably not card counting though.
    Others are insisting that DJ used card-counting in AC,
    and it was Grosjean AKA "Andy" who helped him.

    But Andy was not in AC with DJ.

    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    I can also guarantee Atlantic City casinos involved were watching a player betting $100,000 a hand checking for card counting. Hey I played Atlantic City the first 5 and a half years of my career, so I know they would be looking for that from a player of this size stakes.
    Could a player use card-counting spreading techniques while betting $25K+ per hand
    without being detected, and either backed off or flat-betted?

    Is it likely that a dealer at a $100K max table would expose his hole cards,
    like some rookie dealer?

    Could DJ have beaten the AC casinos for $15 mil, then get loss rebates in Vegas?
    Wouldn't word have gotten to LV?

    Can a player sit down at a high stakes table with Grosjean in Las Vegas
    and not draw scrutiny?
    Johnson counted at Taj and Caesars. After that, working with Grosjean, he didn't. Grosjean has other techniques and while Johnson got away with it at Caesars it likely wouldn't hold up if he kept doing it. Grosjean's involvement is based on the 888 photo credit and where the article referred to "the sharpest mind in gambling." Per the TV interview Johnson hired top professionals to teach him a better game. Grosjean was a top professional. It is well known that Grosjean wore disguises in those days to fool security. But it's possible Grosjean only worked behind the scene.

    It's been established Andy wasn't one of the hole carders or sequencers Johnson used at Caesars.

    There weren't any 100K max tables. Johnson negotiated the high limit with different rules. Per Johnson in the TV interview the dealers were not used to dealing such a game and made mistakes, which Johnson capitalized on.
    Last edited by mickeycrimm; 08-30-2018 at 12:27 AM.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  15. #135
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Every true advantage play helps you win a bet. I'll give you examples:

    Card counting, distracting a dealer, hole carding, edge sorting, changing betting rules, clocking a Roulette wheel, identifying an unbalanced roulette wheel, getting a craps dealer to let you slide the dice.

    These are all advantage plays and they can help you win.

    Now, some of you are insisting that loss rebates help you win. So tell me, how do loss rebates impact the cards, dice or wheel to increase your chances of winning?

    Or are you telling me that when you lose less because of a loss rebate that that constitutes some kind of an advantage even though it doesn't help you to win the next bet?

    I invite troll MaxPen to contribute something meaningful and to reply first. Go ahead MaxPen and show me you're smarter than a foul mouthed fourth grader.
    Alan, it has already been explained ad nauseum by Mission and KJ. If you can't get it from them, I can't help you. Plus I'm smart enough to recognize up front that you are a fool. Hence the name issued to you early on, MendelFool. Your attempt to bait me has failed just like your feeble attempts to be a father and man of your word to your son.
    Sorry MaxPen but you can't tell me how a loss rebate or a discount on your loss will make your next bet win. Because it can't. Loss rebates don't have any impact on dice, cards or wheels.

    Now, why can't you admit that? I'll tell you why. Because somewhere you read that loss rebates are an advantage play and you forgot to define an advantage play.

    So I'll put the question to you differently. What is the purpose of an advantage play? Careful now because it's a trick question. If you say an advantage play is to help you win I'm going to ask how does a loss rebate affect cards, dice and wheels to make you win?

    Now MaxPen try to put that high school GED to good use and answer the question.

  16. #136
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Sorry MaxPen but you can't tell me how a loss rebate or a discount on your loss will make your next bet win. Because it can't. Loss rebates don't have any impact on dice, cards or wheels.

    Now, why can't you admit that? I'll tell you why. Because somewhere you read that loss rebates are an advantage play and you forgot to define an advantage play.

    So I'll put the question to you differently. What is the purpose of an advantage play? Careful now because it's a trick question. If you say an advantage play is to help you win I'm going to ask how does a loss rebate affect cards, dice and wheels to make you win?
    Wow Alan....just Wow. I seriously just feel bad for you. We led you to water, but we can not make you drink. All I can say is the casinos must love you.

    Alan, just keep doing what you are doing. It seems to be working out real well for you.
    Last edited by kewlJ; 08-30-2018 at 12:31 AM.

  17. #137
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Every true advantage play helps you win a bet. I'll give you examples:

    Card counting, distracting a dealer, hole carding, edge sorting, changing betting rules, clocking a Roulette wheel, identifying an unbalanced roulette wheel, getting a craps dealer to let you slide the dice.

    These are all advantage plays and they can help you win.

    Now, some of you are insisting that loss rebates help you win. So tell me, how do loss rebates impact the cards, dice or wheel to increase your chances of winning?

    Or are you telling me that when you lose less because of a loss rebate that that constitutes some kind of an advantage even though it doesn't help you to win the next bet?

    I invite troll MaxPen to contribute something meaningful and to reply first. Go ahead MaxPen and show me you're smarter than a foul mouthed fourth grader.
    Alan, it has already been explained ad nauseum by Mission and KJ. If you can't get it from them, I can't help you. Plus I'm smart enough to recognize up front that you are a fool. Hence the name issued to you early on, MendelFool. Your attempt to bait me has failed just like your feeble attempts to be a father and man of your word to your son.
    Sorry MaxPen but you can't tell me how a loss rebate or a discount on your loss will make your next bet win. Because it can't. Loss rebates don't have any impact on dice, cards or wheels.

    Now, why can't you admit that? I'll tell you why. Because somewhere you read that loss rebates are an advantage play and you forgot to define an advantage play.

    So I'll put the question to you differently. What is the purpose of an advantage play? Careful now because it's a trick question. If you say an advantage play is to help you win I'm going to ask how does a loss rebate affect cards, dice and wheels to make you win?

    Now MaxPen try to put that high school GED to good use and answer the question.
    Alan, if that's the case how come you and others aren't getting loss rebate offers in the mail everyday?
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  18. #138

  19. #139
    Mickeycrimm I have a standing loss rebate offer for table games at Rincon. But Rincon gives VP players free play and there is no loss rebate for VP.

  20. #140
    Originally Posted by Alan Maths Moron
    Every true advantage play helps you win a bet.
    No. JUST FUCKING NO!
    That's the Alan Maths Moron definition of advantage play.
    That's the I KNOW FUCK ALL ABOUT ADVANTAGE PLAY definition.

    OK.I Can't resist any longer. I've seen Mission make a fool of himself trying to train a donkey and I've seen KJ make a fool of himself trying to train a donkey and I was even inclined to thank Maxpen for congratulating those guys, though admittedly Maxpen did resist trying to train the donkey. So now I'll try.

    OK Alan. 20% loss rebate cannot influence whether you win the next hand, or throw of the dice.
    Let's try an example, all spiced up. Let the game have a 100% loss rebate. It might be a bit extreme, but what the heck. 100% loss rebate cannot make the next round a winner right?
    Alan, Do you think you now have a real advantage? Is this 100% loss rebate valuable? Maybe just a tiny bit?
    Now, let's play roulette. Me and Alan.
    Alan bets £1 on red and I bet £1 on black. Fuck the zero.
    It comes up red. Alan wins. I lose.
    The dealer gives Alan his $1 + $1 profit.
    The Dealer gives me my $1 back ( loss rebate remember ).
    Alan played the same game as me. Poor motherfucker won, so he got no advantage from the 100% loss rebate. Sucks to be Alan.
    Unlucky me lost. Sucks to be me, because I lost $0.
    I think I'll keep playing. Maybe, I'll start playing $100 per spin on Black. Tell you what, I want to save myself a few minutes....

    I place $100 on red and $100 on black. Fuck the green ( If green lands, i get my $200 back anyway)

    Is there ANY way I can lose? Am I soon going to make $100 profit.

    Well, all it took was a loss rebate and a bit of imagination. The percentage of the loss rebate increased the certainty of my profit. 20% would have been nice. 100% was pretty cool. 200% would have been even sweeter.

    Loss rebates don't influence the next game outcome. They are just free play in another disguise. The more, the better. They DO influence the house edge, usually massively.

    Over to you Alan.
    Last edited by OnceDear; 08-30-2018 at 12:58 AM.

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