Free play reduced

[monet]

Some of us in Vegas actually play all the time.
We aren't arm chair gamblers.
We don't drive all over the land in an RV playing in Vegas occasionally.

Some of us actually practice what we preach and teach.

I didn't like that they cut the multipliers for the month even though they still have a huge billboard saying they have it.
Nothing new though. This happens all the time with promotions not running the intended course.

I played some anyways because it is good to play on non point days.
I put in about 2 hours.
I made 6 quads. This game isn't as bad as some would suggest.
Although you can have bad days, your sessions usually go very steady if you are well funded.
The most important thing is to not tilt or give up hope.
Always remember if this play gets taken down you have something else to go play.
Try to rotate to many different type of plays and you will never run out.

I hardly ever take pictures of Quads but since I was disputed on this play right off the bat...
I thought I would take a few today. You can see how this could be a problem if you are on 5 dollars.
I do not like to take the pictures because the eye in the sky is constantly watching us.
Do not expect any more in the future.

[AxelWolf]

Any member that says you can go 20k hands without a 4 of a kind on VP IS AN IDIOT.

[SLaPiNFuNK]

Any member that says you can go 20k hands without a 4 of a kind on VP IS AN IDIOT.

It's an exaggeration... It can certainly feel like that though...

[mickeycrimm]

Any member that says you can go 20k hands without a 4 of a kind on VP IS AN IDIOT.

4400 is my record. That's like 10 cycles. 20K is like 47 cycles. Impossible.

[monet]

Any member that says you can go 20k hands without a 4 of a kind on VP IS AN IDIOT.

It's an exaggeration... It can certainly feel like that though...

This is what you said and didn't delete...

The downside to this game is getting a W2G for any 4oak. Is .001% worth it?

You see way more 2 pairs than 4oak...

2 pair account for 25% of the return when pays double and are much more frequent than 40ak.

Unless you got the rungood, the 964311 JOB is a setup for AP's to lose.

So you said that "Unless you got the Run Good this game is a set up for AP's to Lose."

You said some other goofy stuff that you deleted but who cares!?
The truth is you don't understand the game or the numbers or how to AP all that goes along with it.
There is a reason why when you search VP banks all you see is 8/5 BP Deluxe and other bad meters.
The Casino got hip to giving players high 99% games at high Denomination.
Off the Jump if you look at the numbers it looks like a Scary Omaha 8 or Better Board where you need 150k to not go broke.
However, once you factor in all the promotions and mailers and what not...
the game isn't so scary and if you have 30k and know the strategy you will never go broke playing at the 2 dollar level and eat for free forever if you eat that is. I am on a liquid diet.

If you want to play this game with a good progressive you can play quarters or halves at the Eureka on Sahara.
I have had days on halves where I lost 1800 cash.
I have also had days on quarters where I was up 1100 in cash in 2 hours.
Go Figure. Either way the game is good and over there it is free money.
However, The mailing system over there is set in stone on a per month basis.
They show you upfront what you can earn but they do have decent drawings.

Now at the Eureka you can play the better Deuces Wild 16/10 Version which is a better payback but...
You will cycle Royals out Faster on the BP Deluxe and that is usually why you are playing over there.
It is an option that you have to decide on which game works better for you.
The Deuces lock up on the Halves I believe, so that will slow you down.
I can't remember but they might even lock up on the quarters.

[monet]

Any member that says you can go 20k hands without a 4 of a kind on VP IS AN IDIOT.

4400 is my record. That's like 10 cycles. 20K is like 47 cycles. Impossible.

I am not sure what my record is.
I know for sure I went 8 hours on Aces and Eights a couple of times only making 3 quads in just over 10,000 hands.
That was pretty ugly.
However I have had a few days on games where I have made 12 quads in an hour.
That is my record for quads in an hour.
A friend of mine made 11 sets of Aces in about 6 hours at the 4 Queens when that 10/7 progressive bank was crazy meter movement.
Of course those machines didn't have TITO at that time and he was surrounded by buckets all around him.
Too Lazy to Cash Out or give them to the Slot Girl I guess. Too busy drinking Crown Royal as well.
That progressive used to always get over 2200-2700. I am sure MC remembers those days.

[mickeycrimm]

Any member that says you can go 20k hands without a 4 of a kind on VP IS AN IDIOT.

4400 is my record. That's like 10 cycles. 20K is like 47 cycles. Impossible.

I am not sure what my record is.
I know for sure I went 8 hours on Aces and Eights a couple of times only making 3 quads in just over 10,000 hands.
That was pretty ugly.
However I have had a few days on games where I have made 12 quads in an hour.
That is my record for quads in an hour.
A friend of mine made 11 sets of Aces in about 6 hours at the 4 Queens when that 10/7 progressive bank was crazy meter movement.
Of course those machines didn't have TITO at that time and he was surrounded by buckets all around him.
Too Lazy to Cash Out or give them to the Slot Girl I guess. Too busy drinking Crown Royal as well.
That progressive used to always get over 2200-2700. I am sure MC remembers those days.

Yep when they first put it in it had a much stronger meter. They eventually cut it to .25%. I remember when they linked all the bartops from every bar. The 9/6 Double Double Bonus 5-way meters got a lot of buildup from shortcoiners.

[AxelWolf]

Any member that says you can go 20k hands without a 4 of a kind on VP IS AN IDIOT.

It's an exaggeration... It can certainly feel like that though...

Ya, it's an exaggeration for sure, just like the 18 yo's and 5 royals in one day (and lost)type of stories. Fortunately, most people can admit when they have exaggerated and it's no big deal. And then, of course, there's Alan.

I know I have gone a full day 7 - 10 hours without a 4 of a kind while playing a 100 coin bonus up to $100 promo at the Santa Fe Station bar(not fun at all). The machines were slow, perhaps 650 hands per hour at most. I have never done that before or after. I lost about 3k, luckily my partners ran good so I still came out ahead on the promo. A few other places over the years have had a true double 4 of a kind promos and I have always seemed to run wicked good hitting 4 of a kinds during those promos. Racks were stacked many feet high and deep at times(or so it seemed). Hard to lose when you are working with 8% to 17 % returns all balled up on the quads.

[Alan Mendelson]

Any member that says you can go 20k hands without a 4 of a kind on VP IS AN IDIOT.

Who said that? I don't recall the post.

[RS__]

The worst I've run that I can remember is no four of a kinds after 4400 hands on 5 play (that's 880 deals times 5 hands). If I know I'm going to be playing a longer session, to keep from going out of my mind, I'd watch for 4oaks and see if I'd ever hit a "shockwave" four of a kind. It wasn't on a SW game that I played (don't think it exists on multi play), but the machine was slow so it's not like I could turbo through it. I was in complete shock and disbelief. Doing the math (422/423)^(4400), it's about 1-in-33k chance of occuring.

Of course the variance gets a little wonky when you deal with multi-play. So the odds aren't that long on what happened due to the co-variance. EG: Normally you'd expect the 'nothing' hand to happen 1 in 1.83 hands. If you're playing 100-play and you get dealt a winning hand for 3 hands in a row, then the math would be 1/((0.83/1.83)^(300)) = 1 in 1.98 * 10^102 .... that's almost 1 in 2 googol odds.....and clearly, that's not correct.

Correct me if I'm wrong on any math or logic -- or more interestingly, how would you figure out how to determine the odds of that, or something like that (given there's co-variance) occurring.

[monet]

I went downtown to see if they still had the 10/7 machine at the Cal by the Holo Holo Bar. I was surprised it was still there and I played dollars. I didn't check the quarters or halves but I am sure it is still 10/7 as well. The card is fixed though and the new VP system is pretty rough. I put in 6200 coin for 3100 points. Whats that break down to 3 dollars on 6000. Is that .05 lol? Anyways, whatever that play is dead unless you just want to hide and play some full pay 10/7 but you can play 10/6 DDB at the 4 Queens Bar and get .3 cash back with .6/7 comp and much better offers. I played for a little over an hour.

I guess I got the Run Good because my first two Quads were Aces (The second set had to spit out an 800 dollar ticket and it got jammed trying to cheat me) and after that I made a set of 6's and wanted to check what the new system showed on the kiosk. It could make you puke. What do you expect though. Boyd got APed the Death for a couple years on the Young at Heart Promo and on many other things before that. They are tired of Video Poker and APs from what I can tell. I noticed those properties are not only getting rid of the VP machines but also the Reels for the newer, hipper Video Reel Machines and Must Hits and other Vision Type of Machines.

Anyways I walked across the street and was a little sad to see the Las Vegas Club is completely gone now along with the Glitter Gulch and the other properties along that strip. No more Deep Fried Oreos and Frozen Bananas and Dollar Hot Dogs. Not that I ate much of that but I liked the novelty of it. I will miss the Las Vegas Club but I am glad they gave me a ton of dough before they sold the place and blew it up or down depending on how you look at it.

I found some Reel Plays and played those for about 5 hours. I ended up losing 700 on them. Sometimes you get upside down before you hit what you are after. I played some 5 dollar Bonus Poker as well to see if there is a difference in points. I ended up making 2 quads on that game in about 20 minutes and went for a walk checking out meters. I was going to play some poker at the Nugget in a game that looked good but decided to pass. I tried some more at the 165,640 Triple Diamond game but hit nothing and lost another hundred. I ended up winning 1700 or so and called it the night.

Some of us on these boards actually play every day and night.
We aren't just talking on these boards as some of the Anti-APs constantly accuse these boards of doing.
Anyways, I thought I would let you run through my brain a little and see some pictures of the night.

The D Bar is currently 100.7% payback with the Straight Flush and the Royal up at 200 and 1100.
I think that is the right payback. Double check it to be sure.
I didn't factor in the 4 of a kind but that meter is always up so you have to average it out which will bring you close to 1%.
I have hit the straight flush at that bar over $550.
I think the highest I hit it at was $576.
When it gets up like that and you have some meat on the Royal you can get close to a 6% - 8% winner.
Not only that but you usually can switch to the other game for some time as well.

I noticed the other 8/5 bank by the sports book was up to about $1350.
I didn't check the downstairs progressive.

The 4 Queens bar Deuce Bank was getting up on the Halves at almost 3k.

[quahaug]

I guess some are happy Gliter Gultch is gone. What happened to the sports memrabilia at VC?

[monet]

I guess some are happy Gliter Gultch is gone. What happened to the sports memrabilia at VC?

I think OJ stole it.
Hid it and moved to Florida.

[Alan Mendelson]

OJ is not permitted in Florida. He's still in Summerlin.

[jj5957]

For the regular Stations properties monet is correct, a local address is better than a non-local. However for premium properties (GVR, Palms, Red Rock), they are more willing to market to non-locals. I'm not sure what a good first-time coin in amount would be but I would suggest at least $20k in a single day. You should then get mailers that have $150-250 in free play or gift cards to show up and a play up feature where you can get an additional $1,000 for 100,000 points so all together worth 1.15-1.25% on top of the slot club. This isn't the greatest for 8/5 Bonus but there are some other choices around with a better EV where you can get a decent amount of coin in. Just don't try to play the "up to 99.8%" games.

[Alan Mendelson]

The conversion rate is ONE MILLION points for $1,000 and not $100,000.

[jj5957]

Correct for the slot club. The promotion was 100,000 points for $1,000.

[monet]

This is how you keep your mailers up.
You play and you usually play on point days.
You also have to scout and hopefully find glitches.
I played for about 4 hours. I made a ton of Quads but lets not get into that.
I also did not hold the Ace against the 347 of diamonds.
Some of us actually go for the straight flush and not a pay pair and get rewarded.
Some of us are not arm chair APs... we actually play all the time.
We don't record 50 dollar FP's and bitch when they get cut down to 40s.

[Guy Incognito]

Are you saying throwing away the A to keep 743s (cost you 6 cents in EV, if I'm calculating it right) helps with your mailers, because the casino tracks your mistakes?

[AxelWolf]

Perhaps he is talking about 2 different hands in his post(and not just the one in the picture), or he miss-worded by saying pay pair instead of saying high card. Unless there's was some really really special promotion, I can't imagine why anyone would ever hold a 3 card str8 flush (gaps or not) over a pay pair. However one would hold Ad 2d 3d 4d over Ad Ac.

under normal circumstances, 3d 4d 7d would not beat an A high card, even of the Ace had an SS 10 penalty card with it.