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Thread: Caesars claims 15-20% of customer base is "unprofitable" for them, aims to drive those people out

  1. #21
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Gosh I saw nothing in the letter referencing addiction. You talk about addiction too much redietz. Why?
    redietz is right. That disturbing "You don't qualify for 7 Stars" e-mail very clearly makes reference to addiction without directly saying it.

    Representative Kent Houston wrote, "Third, we look for steady and increasing trip to trip casino play."

    Notice he wrote steady AND increasing. That means they're looking for people who are moving up in amount of money gambled, rather than just those maintaining the same level.

    It's possible that Kent wrote it incorrectly, and actually meant OR.

    In fact, that would make more sense. It looks like this e-mail was received in response to an inquiry submitted through the Total Rewards online contact form. They don't exactly hire the best and the brightest to respond to those inquiries.

    However, I believe most of the information Kent provided was correct.

    Indeed, Caesars seems to finally be enforcing their long-claimed "invitation" requirements for Seven Stars.

    Up until this year, despite the "invitation" claim, all players reaching 150,000 tiers were approved unless they had behavior/financial problems at Caesars properties.

    Now it seems they're requiring regular play AND a relatively moderate use of comps.

    So if you're overcomped, you're not becoming Seven Stars.

    I wonder what they're going to do about existing Seven Stars who have reached 150,000 tiers. Aside from those who did the "every other year" plan (earning it one year, then no-playing the following year while keeping Seven Stars, then re-earning Seven Stars the following year), they did not review existing Seven Stars for re-entry.

    They may start doing so.

    Ironically, they are tightening entry to the program after majorly degrading its benefits. So that's kind of like leaving the door open to your home with expensive jewelry inside, and then locking it securely once your house is mostly empty.

    Caesars is ass backwards as usual.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  2. #22
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    I was RFB at Caesars before Total Rewards and I never had a suite or was even a high roller. RFB meant room, food and beverage was comped up front. That's the definition and always was. There is no modern definition.

    Today when you exhaust your reward credits you're not given RFB, what happens is the host writes off additional expenses with host comps. I'm sure there's a term for it but it's not RFB.
    Alan Mendelson
    www.AlanBestBuys.com
    "(Alan) simply can't get past a die having six sides." -- Michael Shackleford May 12, 2015

  3. #23
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    Come on now. The Caesars letter isn't about addiction. It's about rewarding loyal customers.

    I'm getting the impression here that anyone who is a low level gambler is calling everyone else an addict. Well now that I'm retired I'm also a low level gambler. But I do not call high level gamblers addicts.

    Geesh.
    Alan Mendelson
    www.AlanBestBuys.com
    "(Alan) simply can't get past a die having six sides." -- Michael Shackleford May 12, 2015

  4. #24
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    After you exhaust your reward credits the host can use DISCRETIONARY COMPS.
    Alan Mendelson
    www.AlanBestBuys.com
    "(Alan) simply can't get past a die having six sides." -- Michael Shackleford May 12, 2015

  5. #25
    Yes, discretionary comps is the specific term for hosts giving comps to players.

    But it's all from RFB. Hosts see if you qualify for RFB, and then give you these discretionary comps if you're out of RCs. They also can make you their own offers or allowances through RFB.

    But by modern usage, getting a mailed offer for room, food, and beverage is not considered RFB. RFB is used by hosts, and marketing offers come from a different system.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  6. #26
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    Oh for heavens sake. Why do you have to reinvent the wheel and redefine established terminology?

    Free play is free play. RFB is RFB. A blackjack is a blackjack. A passline bet is a passline bet.

    Have these forum discussions really reached the point where people have to change long standing terminology to win an argument?

    This is just too silly.
    Alan Mendelson
    www.AlanBestBuys.com
    "(Alan) simply can't get past a die having six sides." -- Michael Shackleford May 12, 2015

  7. #27
    I'm not trying to win an argument. As an overcomped player at Caesars for years, I still received a number of marketing offers including room, food, and beverage, yet if I approached a host (either before or during the stay) and asked for anything, I would be refused.

    That's because I didn't qualify for RFB.

    So going back to what I originally said, I believe RFB will be decreased or cut for these "unprofitable" players, as will the marketing offers.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  8. #28
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    I don't think that under Total Rewards you ever got an offer for RFB. Getting an offer from TR for a room and $500 dining credits and/or maybe show tickets is not RFB.

    The offers that TR sends out, and I get them all the time, are defined with limits. RFB had NO LIMITS.

    NO LIMITS is what RFB is and always has been.
    Alan Mendelson
    www.AlanBestBuys.com
    "(Alan) simply can't get past a die having six sides." -- Michael Shackleford May 12, 2015

  9. #29
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    I don't think that under Total Rewards you ever got an offer for RFB. Getting an offer from TR for a room and $500 dining credits and/or maybe show tickets is not RFB.

    The offers that TR sends out, and I get them all the time, are defined with limits. RFB had NO LIMITS.

    NO LIMITS is what RFB is and always has been.
    That's not true. RFB usually has limits.

    A few whales will get RFB with no limits, but that's highly unusual.

    Otherwise, a mid-limit player with RFB could take out 20 people to a super-expensive dinner and get all of that comped off. Even 30 years ago that wasn't possible.

    I used to be a blackjack player in the early 2000s and would qualify for RFB. It wasn't always a hard limit, but rather a ballpark where you would charge food to your room, and the host would comp it off if it were reasonable.

    So if I ate $200 worth of food, he would comp it off. If I wanted him to take care of a $3000 bill, he wouldn't.

    Google "RFB" and you will see old discussions all over gambling forums where people are asking the minimum to "qualify for RFB". Basically these people were asking how much they had to play so they could call a host and get comped for next trip.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  10. #30
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    I was RFB for many years, although there may have been limits that I never reached as I was not an abuser. Only time I had a problem was when I took a small group to the place at Paris up the Elevator (what the hell is it called?). When I got the check and signed the maître d called me over and told me that you couldn't use comps of any kind at that restaurant. He said since it was privately owned (at least at that time) you had to pay.


    Since it was an occasion and we had caviar and champagne, it was a pretty big ticket. The next day I questioned my host about it and she said they would have comped it at the other restaurants, but couldn't do it there. So she picked up my group's airfare for me instead.

  11. #31
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    Dan if you were given RFB you were given it based on a certain trust factor. In other words, they didn't think you'd take twenty couples to dinner when normally it was you and your wife.

    I'll tell you a true and funny story about RFB.

    Years ago before Total Rewards I was RFB and I never abused it. Then I was given the name of a gal that a friend wanted to fix me up with. I called her -- she lived in LA -- and told me she was going to a nurses convention on Thursday at the Palms.

    So...I said I'd take her to dinner Thursday night.

    After work on Thursday I drove to Burbank and flew up. Room at Caesars was RFB and so was the limo. No problem I just made a phone call.

    The nurse takes a cab from the Palms and I meet her at the front door. This is years ago... before the Augustus valet entrance.

    I made a reservation at Neros, the steakhouse that Caesars had.

    She was very attractive. And I really was happy with this blind date... at the moment. LOL

    We're at Neros and she's looking at the menu. It was very expensive and she asks me if I knew the place was pricey. I said it's fine, I'm RFB, you can order anything.

    OMG. What a mistake that was.

    She started with $135 caviar appetizer. That's the only individual price I remember. The rest was a blur.

    The blur included two glasses of champagne. Since I don't drink I just had a sip of mine and she finished it. Then she ordered a bottle of champagne. And there were salads and fish and the check came to $850 before the tip.

    When the check came I told the waiter to charge it to my room. This was the only time at Caesars I was ever asked for ID.

    $850 for dinner for two. All I could think was that my host would be angry because it was so out of my normal range. But it was covered and my host never said a word.

    By the way. The nurse was drunk by the end of dinner and I took her back to the Palms and literally had to carry her into her room. Several years later she lost her nursing license for being drunk during surgery.
    Alan Mendelson
    www.AlanBestBuys.com
    "(Alan) simply can't get past a die having six sides." -- Michael Shackleford May 12, 2015

  12. #32
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    Originally Posted by regnis View Post
    the place at Paris up the Elevator (what the hell is it called?).
    Eiffel Tower Restaurant? Kind of odd you'd get pushed back on that; I've used my celebration dinner vouchers there a few times with no issue.

    Since it was an occasion and we had caviar and champagne, it was a pretty big ticket. The next day I questioned my host about it and she said they would have comped it at the other restaurants, but couldn't do it there. So she picked up my group's airfare for me instead.
    "we can't give you this off-property hard comp, so we'll give you this other off-property hard comp instead". It's like they're TRYING to be nonsensical.

    Speaking of which, does anyone even know what the 4th item on that email means?

  13. #33
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    This discussion has turned stupid, and that began once Dan gave his very erroneous definition of RFB.

    I've been to Wynn twice under RFB, Bellagio many times, other places many times, and the Venetian too many times to count. And every casino that offers RFB designates it as Full or Limited. If it's limited, they identify which venues are a no-go and/or if there's a monetary limit on certain bottles of wine or champagne. Otherwise, Full RFB HAS NO LIMITS. And you do not have to be a whale to receive it.

  14. #34
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    I have to admit I agree with Alan on this one. However, back in the day when I was RFB at the Mirage, it was for two people. You could have a $600 dinner at Renoir for two no problem, but if you took three people to the buffet you would pay for the third person. Bar charges were no problem, if you wanted to buy drinks for 20 people it was picked up. Similarly in room service, if you ordered bottles of booze or wine, it was automatically picked up if you were RFB.

    Nowadays MGM props still have the concept of RFB but they limit it to $350/day, at least in my case. CET props have not really done true RFB for many years.

  15. #35
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    At CET sometimes they would put it through if I had more than 2 people. Other times they would comp the 2 and charge the rest to my room and the host would take care of it. Just that one time at Eiffel was an issue and this goes way back 19 years ago.

  16. #36
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    My girlfriend had RFBS at the Mirage and the Nugget back in the actual RFBS days.

  17. #37
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    For people who play for card status, why would ANYONE continue to play at properties that have slot clubs identifying certain point levels which = certain card status....then caveat it all over the map?

    CET was already gone from my potential visit list the past several years. Now they're just asking their better players to go elsewhere.

  18. #38
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    In a recent mailer from CET, the fine print required 2 hours of rated play to receive the free room, free play, and resort credits. I had not seen that before. I actually have no problem with it. It was for Nola or gulf coast, not my normal venues.

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