Video Poker Plays

[mickeycrimm]

Rob has posted photos on $25/coin machines. Why is it impossible for him to have won about $100,000 per year playing high denominations?

For the same reason it is IMPOSSIBLE that you actually saw somebody roll 18 yos in a row.

It's the math.

I'm going to point out again that Monet posted photos of negative EV games. Let me ask a different question, is Monet doomed to lose?

In the long term, yes. In the short term he will have winning sessions. Alan, I'm sure you seen the freeplay mailers that monet has posted. If you know how to work it the amount of freeplay will outrun the loss on the game.

Playing a slightly negative game and generating enough freeplay to turn the game into a positive has been going on for years. It's SOP with AP's.

[MisterV]

If he plays -EV games and doesn't employ the usual AP tricks then yeah, in the long run he's a loser.

Hell, I've received quite a few hand pays and I'm not ahead, lifetime, nor do I expect to be.

[mickeycrimm]

Did you look at the paytable? There was no reason NOT to hold all five cards. There was, for example, no bonus if the fifth card was an ace. Mickeycrimm did the correct thing holding all five.

He knows that. He was making a joke.

I missed the joke.

It was back in the nineties one of Dan Paymar's tips was hold all five cards when dealt quads that cant improve. His reasoning was if you are dealt a card of the same rank it would void the pay. I dont know that its ever happened so take the advice for what its worth. If axel wants a pic of it happening the chances are not good especially if no one is drawing to it.

[RS__]

Lol, Alan plays at Stations and thinks a 6x multiplier is worth 0.03% and that $10 CI = 1 pt.

You can't make this shit up!

[Alan Mendelson]

Lol, Alan plays at Stations and thinks a 6x multiplier is worth 0.03% and that $10 CI = 1 pt.

You can't make this shit up!

Gee RS I said from the beginning my math was bad. Why don't you give me the correct figure?

And regarding Monet's mailers: $150 twice a week is $300 per week and that's 12 hands of $5/coin Bonus Poker. So just how far is $150 per session going to go playing $5 VP?

Also I didn't see any huge buildup of credits on those photos which tells me he didn't hit those quads back to back.

So.... getting back to my original point: why does Monet get a pass while you pour the hostility on Rob Singer?

[MaxPen]

Lol, Alan plays at Stations and thinks a 6x multiplier is worth 0.03% and that $10 CI = 1 pt.

You can't make this shit up!

They don't call him ShortBus MendleFool for nothing.

[Alan Mendelson]

Let's go over it again so you math experts can make it right:

$10 coin in at video poker = 1 point
1,000 points = $1
One hand of $25 video poker = 2.5 points
With a 6x multiplier that's 15 points
You would need 66.66 hands of $25 video poker to get $1, or 1,000 points.

Gosh, are you telling me that the return is even less than what I thought?

[Rob.Singer]

Nice hits Monet. But why is it that so many doubt that Singer could also hit winners? Rob has posted photos on $25/coin machines. Why is it impossible for him to have won about $100,000 per year playing high denominations?

Does it take being an AP to influence a RNG?

It's simple, many hands played on a -EV game will always end up in the red, espesilly with his special plays. Many hands played on a +EV situation will always end up in the black. If Rob has played as many hands on VP as he insinuates, he is in the long run. Or he hasn't/doesn't play as much as he claims.

What grade did you say you made it to axel....and did you get a D or an F in math?

No math teacher or any of redietz' famous university math professors would ever teach that playing mostly -EV games will always mean you lose over any period of time....and vice versa.

And you claim to be a math-knowledgeable AP?

So mickey--you like to get involved in every discussion. Explain how you're able to handle such an embarrassing statement by one of your bunch.

[AxelWolf]

Another freeplay runner. NSUD with a .5% royal meter.

Sigh* you held the fifth card.

Did you look at the paytable? There was no reason NOT to hold all five cards. There was, for example, no bonus if the fifth card was an ace. Mickeycrimm did the correct thing holding all five.

As has allready been pointed out, it was a joke, well kinda. I never hold all 5 unless the game pays more for kickers.

Many years ago on the first VP machines supposedly there were a few instances where people drew to dealt 4 of a kinds and drew a "five of a kind". I'm skeptical. But even if it did happen a few times, I highly doubt there are very many of those type of machines left. Yet, all the VP writers to this day still seem to include this as some great advice. Also, I have seen where people post up pic's and get admonished for not holding the fifth card and they recite the same old BS they have read.

I have been playing VP since the early 90's, and I worked at a casino for about a year in the slot department. I know many people, AP's and non-AP's who have been playing VP for many years and not one of them has ever seen or heard of this happening outside the old rumors.

It kinda started before I was really participating on the forums. I had a friend who believed he was seeing this kinda nonsense(not just the five card thing, other crazy stuff like Rob thinks he sees). I told him the machines were playing tricks on his brain. He swore up and down it was happening all the time. So I made a bet with him that he couldn't ever find a legit scenario he was talking about. Obviously, he never did.

Anyways, I'm not sure exactly how it got started but a few years back there was a discussion about this on WOV. I said it was nonsense and put up a $500 freeroll bounty for anyone that could provide proof. No one ever did, however, I got a few PM's from people trying to pull a few fast ones. Eventually, I canceled the bounty(a few years was good enough because I dont want the hassle of dealing with people taking con shots at me ).

Let's think about this, there is no special reason why this would only happen on dealt4 of a kinds. Why can't you draw to any amount of cards and have the same card show up? If that isn't happening you can be damn sure it isn't going to happen during a dealt 4.

I suspect nowadays it's just as rare as your 18 yos in a row.

[Rob.Singer]

Let's go over it again so you math experts can make it right:

$10 coin in at video poker = 1 point
1,000 points = $1
One hand of $25 video poker = 2.5 points
With a 6x multiplier that's 15 points
You would need 66.66 hands of $25 video poker to get $1, or 1,000 points.

Gosh, are you telling me that the return is even less than what I thought?

You're forgetting: they are AP's. They make their own percentages. They theorize about drawings, tournament values, and even about how much a sunny day is worth. Then if you throw a couple of the tough questions their way, they deflect by bad-mouthing you because they get easily frustrated. Max is a prime example. He made up name for you with "fool" in it, and he still can't get over that we have a camper and a 45' RV. Mr.V's a close 2nd. He admits being a loser and not much of a vp player, yet he has no trouble insulting you about how you play and what you know, and he lies about the best video poker player on the planet.

Watch what they grumble about next. And if mickey's feelings get hurt he'll be begging Dan to ban ban ban!

[Rob.Singer]

Sigh* you held the fifth card.

Did you look at the paytable? There was no reason NOT to hold all five cards. There was, for example, no bonus if the fifth card was an ace. Mickeycrimm did the correct thing holding all five.

As has allready been pointed out, it was a joke, well kinda. I never hold all 5 unless the game pays more for kickers.

Many years ago on the first VP machines supposedly there were a few instances where people drew to dealt 4 of a kinds and drew a "five of a kind". I'm skeptical. But even if it did happen a few times, I highly doubt there are very many of those type of machines left. Yet, all the VP writers to this day still seem to include this as some great advice. Also, I have seen where people post up pic's and get admonished for not holding the fifth card and they recite the same old BS they have read.

I have been playing VP since the early 90's, and I worked at a casino for about a year in the slot department. I know many people, AP's and non-AP's who have been playing VP for many years and not one of them has ever seen or heard of this happening outside the old rumors.

It kinda started before I was really participating on the forums. I had a friend who believed he was seeing this kinda nonsense(not just the five card thing, other crazy stuff like Rob thinks he sees). I told him the machines were playing tricks on his brain. He swore up and down it was happening all the time. So I made a bet with him that he couldn't ever find a legit scenario he was talking about. Obviously, he never did.

Anyways, I'm not sure exactly how it got started but a few years back there was a discussion about this on WOV. I said it was nonsense and put up a $500 freeroll bounty for anyone that could provide proof. No one ever did, however, I got a few PM's from people trying to pull a few fast ones. Eventually, I canceled the bounty(a few years was good enough because I dont want the hassle of dealing with people taking con shots at me ).

Let's think about this, there is no special reason why this would only happen on dealt4 of a kinds. Why can't you draw to any amount of cards and have the same card show up? If that isn't happening you can be damn sure it isn't going to happen during a dealt 4.

I suspect nowadays it's just as rare as your 18 yos in a row.

It's another stupid discussion, and no serious player would bother explaining any of that nonsense. Strong players ALWAYS hold all 5 cards when dealt quads unless the hand can be improved upon.
Period.

[AxelWolf]

For the same reason it is IMPOSSIBLE that you actually saw somebody roll 18 yos in a row.

It's the math.

I'm going to point out again that Monet posted photos of negative EV games. Let me ask a different question, is Monet doomed to lose?

In the long term, yes. In the short term he will have winning sessions. Alan, I'm sure you seen the freeplay mailers that monet has posted. If you know how to work it the amount of freeplay will outrun the loss on the game.

Playing a slightly negative game and generating enough freeplay to turn the game into a positive has been going on for years. It's SOP with AP's.

There have been many posts discussing how people gain an advantage on VP in various diffrent ways. Alan is only interested in, and focused on trying to find ways to discredit AP's and defend his butt buddy Rob.

[Rob.Singer]

So exactly how many of these 'various different' ways are there, axel? Or maybe you could identify how many various different ways Alan is interested in discrediting ap's.

7th grade can be tough to get through.

[Alan Mendelson]

I always read that the reason for holding all five (except when there's a kicker potential) is to:

1. Avoid the error of holding a wrong card. It's simpler to just hold all five.

2. By holding all five there is less likelihood of a machine error dropping a card.

I never heard any rumor about 5oak.

[Alan Mendelson]

I'd still like someone to tell me what's the value of a 6x multiplier?

I've always heard that cashback and comps had a value of maybe one-tenth of one percent. Even at 6-tenths of one percent is 8/5 Bonus a +EV game?

[Alan Mendelson]

I'm going to do something I doubt our esteemed APs would do. I'll show you my account at Station Casinos. I have about $2.60 of free play or cash back available. Those of you who call me an addict please take note of that small amount. Also note I have about 135,000 points which is worth about $135 in dining credits. I got that from winning that $400 (400,000 points) from the free drawing in August. I've been eating free, except for tips, every day all during September at Red Rock. The cash back comes from the free play I get and some points from previous months. Today I had clam chowder, a salad and a diet Pepsi. Love their clam chowder on Fridays.

[MisterV]

Mr.V...lies about the best video poker player on the planet.

Where did I say ANYTHING about Bob Dancer?

[Alan Mendelson]

I'm going to point out again that Monet posted photos of negative EV games. Let me ask a different question, is Monet doomed to lose?

In the long term, yes. In the short term he will have winning sessions. Alan, I'm sure you seen the freeplay mailers that monet has posted. If you know how to work it the amount of freeplay will outrun the loss on the game.

Playing a slightly negative game and generating enough freeplay to turn the game into a positive has been going on for years. It's SOP with AP's.

There have been many posts discussing how people gain an advantage on VP in various diffrent ways. Alan is only interested in, and focused on trying to find ways to discredit AP's and defend his butt buddy Rob.

No. I'm trying to figure out why Monet gets a pass for playing a -EV game?

And again that free play is only worth 12 hands per month on $5/coin VP.

[Rob.Singer]

I always read that the reason for holding all five (except when there's a kicker potential) is to:

1. Avoid the error of holding a wrong card. It's simpler to just hold all five.

2. By holding all five there is less likelihood of a machine error dropping a card.

I never heard any rumor about 5oak.

I have. It's something the ap community has believed in because they never really thought all machines were 100% on the up and up. That ended when I wrote about going to the NGC with evidence of my 5th card flip over theory being true. From then on, I was the crazy guy and not them.

[Barney]

This is Barney,

Now I don't play the video pokers but this week at Indian Casino the LID drew after the four aces and hit a fifth one. The most kind casino personage paid him an extra $100 bonus for hitting the five of a kind.