Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 67

Thread: AP Exemplar

  1. #41
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    RS__ if APing means you have to do stuff that's boring or stuff you don't want to do then it can't be enjoyable.
    You’re so wise, because it has to be either enjoyable or not enjoyable, but there’s no “both”.

    I’m sure lawyers who enjoy their jobs love staying up until 3am going over lots of documents. Policemen just love to get shot at. Firefighters love it when people die from smoke inhalation. Surgeons love it when their patients die. Football players enjoy getting injuries and concussions.
    #FreeTyde

  2. #42
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    But what about you APs? Do you have fun? Or are you so damn tight with your money and always having to look over your shoulders that you get sick with nerves and stomach problems or worse?
    Quite a few things wrong with you even heading down this road Alan. You were a reporter or journalist for most of your life. Did you have fun every single day doing that? With your second, related career of hawking products for a price, do you enjoy that? And again, all the time? Every day?

    Many people absolutely hate what they do for a living. Other's may enjoy what they do, to varying degrees. But even they aren't fortunate enough to always enjoy or have fun at what they are doing. APing for a living is a job. It is work. I wouldn't expect anyone to always be having fun anymore than I would expect people in other professions to always be having fun.

    Let me ask you this, Alan, do you think professional golfers are always having fun? I don't play golf, but I am sure the recreational golfers, the lawyers and doctors and every other kind of occupation players out playing on the weekend, probably think, wouldn't it be great to play gold for a living and have fun every day. But what about all the practice, travel, nights in hotel rooms away from family. I have seen quite a few clips of Tiger Woods over the last decade, smashing his clubs and/or throwing his clubs into the water. Didn't look like he was having all that much fun those days.

    So "do you have fun" is a rather stupid question, IMO. Speaking only for myself and building off RS's answer, It isn't about fun. It is a business. It is what we do for a living. Overall (big picture), I enjoy what I do for a living, which makes me fortunate, better than many folks who hate their jobs. But that doesn't mean there aren't times...days, even weeks and sometimes months that are one hell of a lot more frustration that fun. I have mentioned on various forums that I have had 4 different 6 month periods, where I made no money playing everyday or almost everyday. This doesn't mean losing everyday. It is usually a significant losing period of weeks or a month followed by many weeks or months of climbing back to where you were. THAT is no fun. It would be kind of like going to work every day and come payday, you get no paycheck. Or worse, maybe you owe the company money.

    So at the professional level, meaning this is how one pays his or her bills, it really isn't about having fun everyday. It's about money. But hopefully, you can look at the big picture and say, I enjoy what I do. I know I can.


    As for recreational players. There is nothing wrong with that. I have no problem with recreational players or gamblers. Living in Vegas, unfortunately I see too many "recreational players" that gambling doesn't equate to hobby activities like joining a gold club. It equates to more like a crack cocaine habit.

    And BTW, you are using the term AP incorrectly. In your question it seems like you are using AP as in professional AP or player. AP stands for advantage player as I think you know. You don't have to be a professional player, paying your bills by your play to be an AP. You can be a recreational player and still be an AP. I mean what is wrong with having that hobby where you play with an advantage and make a little money instead of losing money?

    As a matter of fact, concerning blackjack card counting, I frequently say that in this day and age, I believe it works best as a part-time or supplemental type thing. Singer is correct in that card counting is a tough grind these days. Much harder than it used to be. But he is wrong that it is no longer possible. And he knows he is wrong, as he does with most other things he says....but that doesn't stop him from frequently repeating these "Singer myths". But that is another discussion.

  3. #43
    I loved being a reporter. While I hated covering the tragedies of plane crashes and riots and fires I loved what I did.

    When we heard of a plane crash my crew and I would be headed to the airport to catch a flight. We lived for it. Did we hate to see people die? Of course we did. But we wanted to be there. We wanted to work 36 hours without sleep covering riots and hurricanes. It was what we were meant to do.

    Did we want to get shot at? No. But we accepted that risk. Because we wanted to be there.

    But what about you APs? Where are your glamor bucks? You are always looking over your shoulders afraid you'll be found out. You have to worry the next "job" (play) won't be there. You have no one cheering you on or even appreciating what you do. There are no Emmys, no Golden Mics, no AP Of The Year Award, no Pulitzer for you guys.

  4. #44
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    But what about you APs? Where are your glamor bucks? You are always looking over your shoulders afraid you'll be found out. You have to worry the next "job" (play) won't be there. You have no one cheering you on or even appreciating what you do. There are no Emmys, no Golden Mics, no AP Of The Year Award, no Pulitzer for you guys.
    This isn't about "glamour." We don't need a pat on the back by others. None of that stuff matters to us. The only thing that does, is making money. Awards are meaningless.

  5. #45
    What do you mean by "glamor bucks"? I don't want to win any awards, prizes, or whatever else.

    The chances of getting 'found out' are pretty low, in my experience. Majority of the time it's after (and I suspect because) we made a killing on the play. I can think of 2 where it was found out very early and we didn't make a big profit -- one was a very small loss, and the other had a small profit. But, with one, the logistics were very difficult and likely something that couldn't even be pulled off...and the other, it wasn't going to last too long, anyway.

    A play isn't a "one and done" type of thing, at least most of the time. Usually they go on for months or years. Of course plays are going to get shut down, but that's not really something I worry about because it's not too likely.


    Right now, I count 9 plays that I'm active in. One is likely to continue, two are likely to not continue, and the other 6 are going strong. There may be more I'm not remembering off the top of my head. And there have been a bunch in the past. There are a few others I'm looking into and will likely start soon, but gotta work out the logistics of it all first before going forward (how much can I get away with, travel expenses, fitting it in [time-wise] with other plays, risk, how much it's worth, etc.). I doubt they're all going to dry up at the same time, knock on wood. Even if they do, worst case scenario, I can move onto other things, like go back to card counting or other table-games plays. I can get more involved and do more with sports betting or go do plays more around the country.

    If somehow ALL AP dries up, worst case scenario, I can go back to dealing...although I can't imagine how all AP could possibly dry up, at least not overnight.
    #FreeTyde

  6. #46
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    But what about you APs? Where are your glamor bucks? You are always looking over your shoulders afraid you'll be found out. You have to worry the next "job" (play) won't be there. You have no one cheering you on or even appreciating what you do. There are no Emmys, no Golden Mics, no AP Of The Year Award, no Pulitzer for you guys.
    Well THIS is just a very odd analogy Alan. Do you need these kind of accolades, recognition, pat on the back? Very few occupations have such things. There is no "nurse of the year" award, or computer programmer Emmy award or Banker's Hall of Fame?

    Financial rewards is our rewards! It is true that we are forced to play that cat and mouse game because we are 'competing' against the casino. Some players like that extra challenge. It adds to their excitement. Not really me though. That doesn't do anything extra for me. But I do get a little extra enjoyment out of beating, winning, earning my living from an industry that I consider a predatory industry. They make the rules favoring themselves and we win. Yeah, that gives me a little extra enjoyment. Maybe THAT is my "Golden Globe".

  7. #47
    Only insecure people need accolades for their performances. As long as there are casinos AP will live on. You really can't have one without the other. At least to the point that there is success.

  8. #48
    If it's only money then why be an AP? Why not work for any big business that offers money plus benefits and security?

  9. #49
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    If it's only money then why be an AP? Why not work for any big business that offers money plus benefits and security?
    I don't think you understand how much revenue some AP's are generating. Also, for the most part it is one of the most flexible occupations in the world. You can't even figure out how to get free juice so not many would expect you to understand. Security? You crack me up. What are you? Some kind of child that needs to be wrapped in a blanket and kept all cozy and shit.

  10. #50
    I enjoy most facets of AP -- figuring out the best way to make a play work or beat a promotion, finding creative solutions to complicated problems, and it's something I'm passionate about. Plus, I enjoy the freedom of being self-employed -- I get to work when I want and take time off [for the most part], if there's something I don't want to work on then I don't have to work on it. No one tells me what to do. My income is proportional to the work I put in -- whereas working for a business, you only get a piece of the value you generate and the business keeps the majority. If a company pays someone $20/hr, for example, that employee is generating more than $20/hr in income for the business.
    #FreeTyde

  11. #51
    Originally Posted by RS__ View Post
    I enjoy most facets of AP -- figuring out the best way to make a play work or beat a promotion, finding creative solutions to complicated problems, and it's something I'm passionate about. Plus, I enjoy the freedom of being self-employed -- I get to work when I want and take time off [for the most part], if there's something I don't want to work on then I don't have to work on it. No one tells me what to do. My income is proportional to the work I put in -- whereas working for a business, you only get a piece of the value you generate and the business keeps the majority. If a company pays someone $20/hr, for example, that employee is generating more than $20/hr in income for the business.
    That is so wrong on so many levels.

    Just about everyone who plays vp for example, knows how to maximize, strategize, and manipulate the system to get the very most out of it. It doesn't take an AP to do that or be able to do it.

    Next, playing in casinos even if you win is a far cry from having a decent real job. The benefits from that far exceed anything an AP can even dream about and in addition, the benefits keep accumulating and multiplying for all the years that you work. You people have NO IDEA of the value of these benefits. You see the stock market numbers? How's a 7-figure profit sound over the last 2 years? And that's for doing absolutely nothing.

    Any casino rat is just plain lazy and unmotivated. Lazy white guys for the most part. The phantom bucks they generate wouldn't even make the front page of a redietz publication.

  12. #52
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    If it's only money then why be an AP? Why not work for any big business that offers money plus benefits and security?
    I don't think you understand how much revenue some AP's are generating. Also, for the most part it is one of the most flexible occupations in the world. You can't even figure out how to get free juice so not many would expect you to understand. Security? You crack me up. What are you? Some kind of child that needs to be wrapped in a blanket and kept all cozy and shit.
    MaxPen I should have used words such as pension, vacation pay, sick pay, paid time off, unemployment insurance, social security, and other terms instead of "security."

    If AP life with its flexible schedule gives you what you need then good for you.

  13. #53
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    If it's only money then why be an AP? Why not work for any big business that offers money plus benefits and security?
    I don't think you understand how much revenue some AP's are generating. Also, for the most part it is one of the most flexible occupations in the world. You can't even figure out how to get free juice so not many would expect you to understand. Security? You crack me up. What are you? Some kind of child that needs to be wrapped in a blanket and kept all cozy and shit.
    MaxPen I should have used words such as pension, vacation pay, sick pay, paid time off, unemployment insurance, social security, and other terms instead of "security."

    If AP life with its flexible schedule gives you what you need then good for you.
    They know what's what Alan. The REAL advantage has been in favor of the capitalist system, which has passed these guys by like a roadrunner going by a turtle.

  14. #54
    All this talk about 401k's from America's worst VP author is such BS. The average 65+ person with a 401k has less than a 200k balance. A lot of people do not even have that. Rob sees that as a way out of his debacle. That is why he focuses on it so much. Most successful APs at a minimum have a low 6 figure bankroll.
    Many APs have other investments as well and are probably more exposed and diversified than the general population. Who is going to fair better in the long term?

    A guy making $300-500 a day working for someone, who is giving them a $700 a month health policy, and another 20k or so in bebefits per year. This is at the top end of the workforce. Want more? Start your own business and good luck.

    Or the AP that is capable of generating 1-5k per day if he so chooses. He/she is smart enough to take a portion of that and plan for their future. There is plenty of money to buy whatever insurances they desire to have. Again this is at the top end.

    Just as you have minimum wage establishment workers you have minimum wage AP plays. It's all about what you know and how you apply yourself as to where you wind up on the spectrum. AP wins over working for corporate America any day of the week, unless you are incapable of matching your corporate income with AP due to needing a more diversified skill set.

    Rob has failed at both skill sets and that it why he is so bitter and pathetic.
    Last edited by MaxPen; 10-02-2018 at 01:23 AM.

  15. #55
    Also, all the talk about dollar amounts, bankroll, life roll, and other BS means very little. What matters is whether you are getting out of life what you want. Wealth is not determined by a dollar amount. It is determined by how many days you can carry yourself into the future without further output.
    If you choose to live life under a bridge that is going to require a whole lot less money than a person with a home for every season. Each person is capable of being happy and content. The problems in life occur when one develops envy of another. That is where Rob comes in. He tried the AP life and failed miserably just as he failed in corporate America. He never got to where he wanted to go. Therefore, he has to find fault with everyone who has succeeded where he failed. A bitter old man living in a POS camper truck mooching Internet to fuel his contempt along the way.

  16. #56
    MaxPen you are absolutely right about the 401k debacle.

    I've been an active union member since 1972 and one thing I've warned about over and over again was that the demise of pensions, and the substitution of 401ks was going to kill off older Americans.

    The reality is, most people with 401ks will exhaust their plans within about ten years of retirement, leaving them only with social security. I am one of the truly lucky ones who has a pension that will never be exhausted (as long as the union plan doesn't go bust). My own brother who is a wealthy magazine publisher worries that his own 401k will not be enough.

    Back to the subject of APs. I did some estimating and if I decided to play like an AP with my limited knowledge of only a few games in the casinos, I would have very little income.

    For example, currently my TOTAL free play from all casinos is only about $750 a month. That's it. $750 a month. Being realistic, if I could convert 90% of that to actual cash I would have enough just to pay for groceries for a week for an average couple. And then, being realistic, how many months would that level of free play last? Maybe two months more?

  17. #57
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    MaxPen you are absolutely right about the 401k debacle.

    I've been an active union member since 1972 and one thing I've warned about over and over again was that the demise of pensions, and the substitution of 401ks was going to kill off older Americans.

    The reality is, most people with 401ks will exhaust their plans within about ten years of retirement, leaving them only with social security. I am one of the truly lucky ones who has a pension that will never be exhausted (as long as the union plan doesn't go bust). My own brother who is a wealthy magazine publisher worries that his own 401k will not be enough.

    Back to the subject of APs. I did some estimating and if I decided to play like an AP with my limited knowledge of only a few games in the casinos, I would have very little income.

    For example, currently my TOTAL free play from all casinos is only about $750 a month. That's it. $750 a month. Being realistic, if I could convert 90% of that to actual cash I would have enough just to pay for groceries for a week for an average couple. And then, being realistic, how many months would that level of free play last? Maybe two months more?
    Alan, you are incapable of AP'ing. It is just not in your DNA. You recognize that by quoting Mike S. in your sig line. The fact that you cannot comprehend the dice problem is proof positive AP is not for you. Look, there is nothing wrong with that. Many pension plans are going to go bust. Hopefully, yours is one of the few stable ones.
    People should be asking themselves how much longer is the party going to continue. The fact of the matter is today's kids cannot buy their parents out. They can't even come close. Your kid is a prime example. Hell, he needs you for a paycheck. If you weren't a degenerate gambler you could help him. Many parents have to help their kids today. There is a big problem with that fact alone, though.
    Why has the stock market done so well?
    Could it be mainstream America being sold the dream of putting a few shekels per week out of their check while working to become a millionaire? Today a million won't even buy a shack in San Francisco.
    Mutual funds came online in the 80's and congress made the 401k possible in 1978. People were sold the dream. All that money chasing that dream has been pumped in week after week, month after month, and year after year. By prospectus that money had to be directed into the stock market. Naturally the stock market is going to rise. What is a normal time to expect return of your investment when you buy a business? How many years did it take to get your money back in the 80's on average? How many years does it take with today's average P/E ratio? What do people who bought into the dream want? There money maybe? Don't they need to sell in order to get there money? Who is going to buy what they need to sell? Their kids that are busy slapping their junk?
    Good luck to all and God Bless America.

  18. #58
    MaxPen you are, to quote a popular line, a garden of misinformation.

    First, quoting Mike S. It's unbelievable to me that he would write such a thing and the fact is I can't get past a die having six sides and only six sides. And as we rational people all figured out there are two answers to the question depending if you are the peeker or if you are the person being asked.

    Now about Jason. My son has his own business. He worked for me only part time -- a couple of days every three months. He was never dependent on my paycheck. He built up his own business and had his own employees.

    You keep repeating your same insults over and over again while you cowardly hide behind a screen name. Use your real name and repeat your libel you piece of shit. Better yet say it to my face and watch what happens.

  19. #59
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    MaxPen you are, to quote a popular line, a garden of misinformation.

    First, quoting Mike S. It's unbelievable to me that he would write such a thing and the fact is I can't get past a die having six sides and only six sides. And as we rational people all figured out there are two answers to the question depending if you are the peeker or if you are the person being asked.

    Now about Jason. My son has his own business. He worked for me only part time -- a couple of days every three months. He was never dependent on my paycheck. He built up his own business and had his own employees.

    You keep repeating your same insults over and over again while you cowardly hide behind a screen name. Use your real name and repeat your libel you piece of shit. Better yet say it to my face and watch what happens.

    Do you ever wonder what life would be like if you’d gotten enough oxygen at birth?

  20. #60
    Being lectured by a bunch of gambling fools about what fruits the future will hold for you when you get old, based on the outcomes of actual gambling casino games, especially when combined with promotions that might be offered or not.

    Imagine taking what KiwiJ says as serious experienced wisdom at his present age. The only people that could even buy into this stuff, are other gambling fools.

    You couldn’t read about this much bullshit in one place at one time anywhere else on the internet.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •