Normal people

[Bill Yung]

It would be nice to hear from some NORMAL people, or at least a few who strive to be normal. People who don't gamble at all would be a nice start.

Redietz seems to think that the best way to run a gambling site is to chase 99.999% of the people away who don't gamble, and, then, scam the rest with one Earth-to-Pluto story after another. (Honestly, I can't figure out, anymore, from which person (of speech) he is talking.)

[Moses]

It would be nice to hear from some NORMAL people, or at least a few who strive to be normal. People who don't gamble at all would be a nice start.

Redietz seems to think that the best way to run a gambling site is to chase 99.999% of the people away who don't gamble, and, then, scam the rest with one Earth-to-Pluto story after another. (Honestly, I can't figure out, anymore, from which person (of speech) he is talking.)

You sound like one of my best friends in life who doesn't gamble. I'm curious, why would the notion of someone who doesn't gamble surf the net in search of a gambling site? I didn't even know such a thing existed until a few years ago. People tell me I'm somewhat unique in that I find solace both in a church and a casino. To me, it's just people. Life is simpler, if one doesn't waste time sitting in judgement of others. And I don't give two boots about those who have deemed themselves worthy enough to sit in judgement of me.

There was a lady I met at church maybe a year after I was divorced. But she didn't think it was good for her persona to be dating someone who played some blackjack and bet on a few games. I tell people with a straight face that I do not gamble. The time spent in study makes it far less risky than many ventures. For instance, I bought a house, retired, and now pay my bills with casino earnings. Maybe take a trip or remodel a room or two. I'm not yet eligible for SSI.

Now the lady, is selling her house because it's too expensive to maintain, struggling to pay some bills even though she now receives SSI and lost a small fortune investing in her sons trucking business that went belly up. So I ask you Mr. Bill, who is the gambler?

[Bill Yung]

I'm curious, why would the notion of someone who doesn't gamble surf the net in search of a gambling site?

Many purely mathematical and sociological reasons to study gambling per se. But sources of those are best Googled, and pursed individually. You might be amazed at some of the extremely in-depth or academic ones, if you take the hours to try to read and understand those. Studies beyond even the everyday psychological ploys of the casinos to maximize their profits.

For the rest of us, though, casinos of mass gambling permeate our civilian existence. The industrial age of gambling. Wouldn't it be great if everyone got on one of these sites before their first experience at a casino? Same as, say, first checking out an on-line company for complaints, etc. Ha, but not such a good idea if your first stop is somewhere like the WoV forum or Odds site. Why learn to gamble "better" to lose everything more slowly? Gambling addiction whether to AP "winning" is a lifelong addiction that very, very few ever extricate themselves from. It permeates all aspects, thoughts, and discussions, of their lives. People come to the "learn to gamble" sites, last about five years, on average, and disappear for good after that final plunge to nothingness. You don't have to lose all of your money to find that. The brain can only take so much abuse, and a lot less when it's at the hand of oneself.

I tell people to go to a casino a few times to see what it's about, and, then, get the f*** out. Try it, and forget about it. There just isn't any "right" amount to play at the casinos. With the internet gambling sites, it's so much easier to just see what it's all about, regardless which way you think you would play.

I didn't even know such a thing existed until a few years ago. People tell me I'm somewhat unique in that I find solace both in a church and a casino. To me, it's just people. Life is simpler, if one doesn't waste time sitting in judgement of others. And I don't give two boots about those who have deemed themselves worthy enough to sit in judgement of me.

That's a standard narrative. "I'm different." "My wife is different." When it comes right down to it, we are all the same. It just takes a different set of circumstances for each of us to do things in the casinos that we never thought we would. Gambling is a gradual process of self-abuse, however.

There was a lady I met at church maybe a year after I was divorced. But she didn't think it was good for her persona to be dating someone who played some blackjack and bet on a few games. I tell people with a straight face that I do not gamble. The time spent in study makes it far less risky than many ventures. For instance, I bought a house, retired, and now pay my bills with casino earnings. Maybe take a trip or remodel a room or two. I'm not yet eligible for SSI.

Now the lady, is selling her house because it's too expensive to maintain, struggling to pay some bills even though she now receives SSI and lost a small fortune investing in her sons trucking business that went belly up. So I ask you Mr. Bill, who is the gambler?

Obviously she made the right decision to ditch you. Gambling addicts suck the life out of everything they touch. Physically and emotionally. Again, we are all addicts, or addicts-in-waiting. I, in your position, would have given up the blackjack, in an instant, shacked up with her, and lived happily-ever-after. Her son? She would've done the same for you.

[Moses]

Bill: You've made some very good points.

Many purely mathematical and sociological reasons to study gambling per se. But sources of those are best Googled, and pursed individually. You might be amazed at some of the extremely in-depth or academic ones, if you take the hours to try to read and understand those. Studies beyond even the everyday psychological ploys of the casinos to maximize their profits..

I have some friends who are college professors that love to come visit and gamble. I get that "deer in the headlights" look at just the notion of HiLO. It's the casinos job to extract people from their money. It's my job to make sure they don't do it to me. I'm good at my job.

For the rest of us, though, casinos of mass gambling permeate our civilian existence. The industrial age of gambling. Wouldn't it be great if everyone got on one of these sites before their first experience at a casino?..

My first boss once told me of a story where a beautiful girl would sleep with him if he'd pay for a motel room. Back then, rooms were like $7. He declined beucause he slept in his car to save money. He said, "damn, I didn't know I was going to be a millionaire." I said, "Harry, that's why you became a millionaire."

Same as, say, first checking out an on-line company for complaints, etc. Ha, but not such a good idea if your first stop is somewhere like the WoV forum or Odds site. Why learn to gamble "better" to lose everything more slowly?

What is overlooked is the time invested in gambling. Suppose the product sells for $.98 but costs a dollar to produce. "That's okay. We'll make it up in volume." Naw, this is a get in, get paid, get out venture.

Gambling addiction whether to AP "winning" is a lifelong addiction that very, very few ever extricate themselves from. It permeates all aspects, thoughts, and discussions, of their lives. People come to the "learn to gamble" sites, last about five years, on average, and disappear for good after that final plunge to nothingness. You don't have to lose all of your money to find that. The brain can only take so much abuse, and a lot less when it's at the hand of oneself.

This venture isn't for wimps.

I tell people to go to a casino a few times to see what it's about, and, then, get the f*** out. Try it, and forget about it. There just isn't any "right" amount to play at the casinos. With the internet gambling sites, it's so much easier to just see what it's all about, regardless which way you think you would play..

Excellent point.

Gambling is a gradual process of self-abuse, however...

Can't argue. I'm amazed at the people who have put that label on me. Then they need money. Who do they call? Me. Instead of answering the phone "hello." I answer "how much."

Obviously she made the right decision to ditch you. Gambling addicts suck the life out of everything they touch. Physically and emotionally. Again, we are all addicts, or addicts-in-waiting. I, in your position, would have given up the blackjack, in an instant, shacked up with her, and lived happily-ever-after. Her son? She would've done the same for you.

I don't recall stating she ditched me. I simply moved away and found someone else. On the other hand, last I heard she is still searching for Mr. Perfect. Now, let me get this straight Bill. You're saying it's okay to shack up with someone - use them for their money is good? Playing blackjack is bad? I don't need anyones money. I don't like being a target for money from family and so called friends. As you said, it sucks the life out of me physically and emotionally.

[Rob.Singer]

This whole sub-discussion can be put up on the big screen starring two self-described top-of-the-heap AP's: Bob Dancer and Mike Shackleford. And I mention them because they are both perceived as high-profile, and unlike the plethora of cowardly anonymous boasters and life-beaters here, they are both real known people in the gambling business.

Dancer was asked to retire from his vp addiction to help his ill wife. He despicably told her to shove it (which one would expect any problem gambler to do--especially an aging one). I'm guessing that Dancer was simply trying to hide his inability to get out of the video poker business (which supplies him with the funds to keep on playing the poker machines) because he had very little in retirement savings or benefits (yes, Shirley soaked him dry in the divorce), and losing his home and his wife got out-ranked by his very serious habit. I also heard that Shack's wife left him but don't know if that's true. But anyone who had to beg forum members for cash OF COURSE is gonna hear from the wife about it.

[AxelWolf]

I also heard that Shack's wife left him but don't know if that's true.

That's nonsense. I don't know or care about the Dancer stuff.

Hasn't your buddy Mendelson been married or close to it a bunch of times? I wonder if his gambling has anything to do with that? My guess would be yes since it seems to have even caused problems between him and his kids.

Getting married at a craps table says a lot(None of it good). It may seem cool to a bunch of guys who like gambling.

"What a neat idea to have a wedding at a craps table".... said no female ever

[blackhole]

What cracks me up about Mike S. is this phony reputation he gets to maintain. Any mathematician could have figured out casino game percentages and posted them. They just never bothered for the simple reason, why bother?

Obviously, the math that he thought would lead him to riches over the years instead led him to a tin cup and begging for donations.

I got banned a couple of times at WOV just calling out the alleged AP’s on their bullshit claims. But when I called out Mike S. on his claims and his tin cup, I got nuked by him.

So, illegal offshore casino promoters looking for degenerate gamblers in the USA figured they would kick a fool around while lying in the gutter, and take advantage of his myth. I would love to know the actual details of that agreement.

After the alleged deal, the remaining phony AP’s who just so happen to still be there, cheered him on again as if his math proved how much of a genius he was. After all, they got to keep their forum home they get to live their phony claims through, and induct suckers who actually believe in them. Jeez, I even remember the drunk AP Axel offering AP jobs to join his team asking for resumes.

It looks like this same group of cheerleaders travel around different forums spreading their bullshit. They keep doing it, so their must be a reason. I only wish I knew what was going on through the PM end of these sites. Remember the Wizard of Nothing? Redditz comes to mind here.

[blackhole]

All this talk about Mike S. I just visited his site.

He is giving some new good mathematical advice and suggestions about how to play Mega Millions. You can’t make this stuff up.

[Bill Yung]

Obviously, the math that he thought would lead him to riches over the years instead led him to a tin cup and begging for donations.

For sure, he and a bunch of others thought that they were going to hit the "mother lode". He was barely at that forum, in the years following its creation, so, other people had to be involved from the ground up. What's so telling now, is that all the ones who pushed the computer, blackjack, etc, coaching, like Romes, are long gone, and, Mike hangs around there all day, everyday, to welcome the likes of Nathan.

Had to laugh a little more, about six months ago, when Don put up another math question for the Wizard. About game theory. He kept trying to lead the Wizard on to the right answer. With the Wizard pretending to have half an idea. It was abundantly obvious to me, someone who has actually done some game theory math, what was happening. Don didn't really know what he was doing, either, so I popped in with a couple of "innocent" questions to, more or less, show that I knew that he was sort of plunging around, himself.

Finally, not to show bias, have my motives questioned, or anything - you know how they get over there when someone shows them something - I went to a real math forum to ask them to post up a solution to Don's problem. Within minutes, one guy had a textbook solution up. I posted a link of that to the thread at the WoV's, and, clearly stated that it wasn't my solution, but where I got it from.

Day and night contrast to what Don and the Wiz were going on about. The Wizard didn't even acknowledge the link, if I recall, but continued right along with Don, and, ha, came up with the very same answer as Don's, but neither of them showed any of their work. Don seems to me to be some sort of high school algebra teacher. It's just a con game over there. The Wizard couldn't care less about any area of math, let alone math in general.

When you sell out your real credentials (as a mid to low -level actuary) to create a conflict of interest with giving casino math advice while working for those, you can expect (pun intended) to never work again. Perhaps, this, and the fact that he is bound to keep working for those foreigners, for peanuts, explains his always hanging around that site now. It's pathetic. Will he be there for another ten or so years, until he's sixty-something, and completely alone and broke? He has such a "hard head" on him. Ha, he thinks it's cute that he failed the Mensa test. A test, more or less, made easy enough for most fools to become eligible for the yearly admission fee to their dumb club.

[Dan Druff]

I've banned "18 Yos LOLZ", as this was clearly a troll account, and it never did anything but troll Alan or Rob.

[The Boz]

I've banned "18 Yos LOLZ", as this was clearly a troll account, and it never did anything but troll Alan or Rob.

So you ban a troll account who only trolled Alan and Rob. Yet Rob is a former banned member who you brought back. Who only trolls and again you have to remove from thread after thread for doing the same thing you banned him for before. You can’t make this shit up.

I don’t ever think I read your reasoning for allowing Rob back or why you allow him to break every rule YOU set when allowing him to return. If I missed it, I apologize in advance.

Your forum, your rules, I get that.

[Bill Yung]

Hey, the Boz. So you guys chased everyone who said the slightest thing against the Wizard off his forum? The guy who became the biggest joke of the gambling world. Just go back to finish that one off, and let the rest of us alone. You add NOTHING here, either.

[Bill Yung]

The Wizard should change the name of his site to the Disgruntled Degenerates of Vegas In Training Forum.

[The Boz]

Hey, the Boz. So you guys chased everyone who said the slightest thing against the Wizard off his forum? The guy who became the biggest joke of the gambling world. Just go back to finish that one off, and let the rest of us alone. You add NOTHING here, either.

Yung, why not grow some balls and announce the name or names you are banned from over there. In the name of transparency of course. And what exactly do you add other than appearing to be a lifetime loser in life?

As I said, Dan’s forum, he can do what he wants. Just calling him out for the same garbage you say the Wiz does.

And yea, the Wizards credibility has been hurt in my opinion with the WoN nonsense along with the current Kendry/Nathan stuff.

[jbjb]

Hey, the Boz. So you guys chased everyone who said the slightest thing against the Wizard off his forum? The guy who became the biggest joke of the gambling world. Just go back to finish that one off, and let the rest of us alone. You add NOTHING here, either.

Yung, why not grow some balls and announce the name or names you are banned from over there.

Garnaby, grimreaper, etc. Just another baccarat systems loser.

[Bill Yung]

Hey, the Boz. So you guys chased everyone who said the slightest thing against the Wizard off his forum? The guy who became the biggest joke of the gambling world. Just go back to finish that one off, and let the rest of us alone. You add NOTHING here, either.

Yung, why not grow some balls and announce the name or names you are banned from over there.

Garnaby, grimreaper, etc. Just another baccarat systems loser.

The Wizard put out far more baccarat stuff than me. I just tried to do the advanced salient stuff that no had done. Did you know that he has his own pet baccarat system? He asked me to post it on a different forum for him, years ago, because he won't post on other forums. So, by your rather simplistic reasoning, he, too, is "another baccarat systems loser".

The difference between us, however, is that I never encouraged anyone to take up gaming under the guise of recreation or sport towards some sort of underground AP'ing system of players. On the contrary, I always told the systems people to make sure that it works, before heading to any casino. And, more or less, that if you can't beat the casino with some such (simple) system, then there is no other reason or way to try. It has to be something that can make a lot of quick cash, without casino heat (because no one there thinks it's possible.) AP'ing simply can't do that. That's a big joke.

Say, if you admit to being Ibeatyouraces, then I will admit to being Garnabby. We could do the lock-step walk down the aisle. Look, if you can't make some fun of yourself, and leave the world a little sillier than you found it, well, you're in for a long short life.

[Rob.Singer]

It's just so amazing to a normal person to see how so many sheep STILL bow at the alter of WoV, when it's "sacred leader" is nothing more than a completely disgraced beggar, who then had no choice but to sell his damaged soul to foreigners in order to be able to keep going to casinos.

And THAT'S what a true degenerate gambler is made of.....

[MisterV]

You may be many things, but "normal" is most certainly not one of them.

[Rob.Singer]

You may be many things, but "normal" is most certainly not one of them.

OK so I'm well above normal.

[mickeycrimm]

This whole sub-discussion can be put up on the big screen starring two self-described top-of-the-heap AP's: Bob Dancer and Mike Shackleford. And I mention them because they are both perceived as high-profile, and unlike the plethora of cowardly anonymous boasters and life-beaters here, they are both real known people in the gambling business.

Dancer was asked to retire from his vp addiction to help his ill wife. He despicably told her to shove it (which one would expect any problem gambler to do--especially an aging one). I'm guessing that Dancer was simply trying to hide his inability to get out of the video poker business (which supplies him with the funds to keep on playing the poker machines) because he had very little in retirement savings or benefits (yes, Shirley soaked him dry in the divorce), and losing his home and his wife got out-ranked by his very serious habit. I also heard that Shack's wife left him but don't know if that's true. But anyone who had to beg forum members for cash OF COURSE is gonna hear from the wife about it.

And in another post you are praising Alan for being on an incredible craps run.