Strong Arm Removal at MGM

[mickeycrimm]

Another incident has occurred that goes right to the heart of what some say about casinos itching to get AP money into their casinos. It just got reported that Railroad Pass put on a promotion very lucrative to AP's. They trespassed the AP's and kept thousands of dollars worth of points. The victims called Gaming who are now investigating.

[redietz]

I can't get anyone to give any details on the strong arm removals.

Why do you think that is?

I don't know. There's a bunch of guys on twitter I network with. We basically trade information on different accumulator slots, especially new games. These guys are all over the country but some of them are in Las Vegas. Most of it is going on through Direct Messaging. One of them, regengambler, put the public message up that two machine AP's had been strong arm removed from MGM properties within a week of each other. Tonybigcharles jumped in and guessed one of them was counteverything and someone else jumped in and said it was. However, I DM'd counteverything and he said it wasn't him. I put up a public message asking if anyone knew details but so far no one has responded. It is well known that there is major heat in some strip casinos on some of the higher denom accumulators like Golden Egypt and Alladin's Fortune. Some of those machines have bet levels as high as $60 a spin so are super lucrative when one finds them in advantage mode. You have to check the different bet levels to find advantages and that's the tip off to surveillance and security.

Mickey,

I hate casinos in general, but especially when they pull this nonsense. I have an idea -- I'll be in LV in a few weeks. If you PM me how one goes about checking bet levels, I'll go into whichever MGM properties are doing this and get in a row with them. I don't know how to play these games, and I won't play these games. I just want to piss them off with somebody who doesn't know what they are doing drawing their fire.


Any comments? I enjoy this stuff, being as how I've never played these machines in my life, and I think being trespassed for just looking at them would be a hoot.

[mickeycrimm]

Why do you think that is?

I don't know. There's a bunch of guys on twitter I network with. We basically trade information on different accumulator slots, especially new games. These guys are all over the country but some of them are in Las Vegas. Most of it is going on through Direct Messaging. One of them, regengambler, put the public message up that two machine AP's had been strong arm removed from MGM properties within a week of each other. Tonybigcharles jumped in and guessed one of them was counteverything and someone else jumped in and said it was. However, I DM'd counteverything and he said it wasn't him. I put up a public message asking if anyone knew details but so far no one has responded. It is well known that there is major heat in some strip casinos on some of the higher denom accumulators like Golden Egypt and Alladin's Fortune. Some of those machines have bet levels as high as $60 a spin so are super lucrative when one finds them in advantage mode. You have to check the different bet levels to find advantages and that's the tip off to surveillance and security.

Mickey,

I hate casinos in general, but especially when they pull this nonsense. I have an idea -- I'll be in LV in a few weeks. If you PM me how one goes about checking bet levels, I'll go into whichever MGM properties are doing this and get in a row with them. I don't know how to play these games, and I won't play these games. I just want to piss them off with somebody who doesn't know what they are doing drawing their fire.


Any comments? I enjoy this stuff, being as how I've never played these machines in my life, and I think being trespassed for just looking at them would be a hoot.

I'm starting to get some feedback. Mlife has pretty much declared war on slot AP's. Their only "crime" is only playing certain slots....and only playing them when they find them in advantage mode. There have been many removals in the last month. If I were in Las Vegas I would head right to those joints. With all the other AP's cleared out I would get all the plays and make a bunch of money. That is, until I get 86'd too. LOL!

Redietz, I'll get some screenshots today and PM them to you describing what to look for.

[pepe]

If you PM me how one goes about checking bet levels

On some games its as simple as looking at the button panel and pressing the different bet amounts "75 credits" "150 credits" etc. If you are just trying to obviously be noticed without playing walk by a bank of Golden Egypts and do this to all the machines.

[pepe]

I don't know. There's a bunch of guys on twitter I network with. We basically trade information on different accumulator slots, especially new games. These guys are all over the country but some of them are in Las Vegas. Most of it is going on through Direct Messaging. One of them, regengambler, put the public message up that two machine AP's had been strong arm removed from MGM properties within a week of each other. Tonybigcharles jumped in and guessed one of them was counteverything and someone else jumped in and said it was. However, I DM'd counteverything and he said it wasn't him. I put up a public message asking if anyone knew details but so far no one has responded. It is well known that there is major heat in some strip casinos on some of the higher denom accumulators like Golden Egypt and Alladin's Fortune. Some of those machines have bet levels as high as $60 a spin so are super lucrative when one finds them in advantage mode. You have to check the different bet levels to find advantages and that's the tip off to surveillance and security.

Mickey,

I hate casinos in general, but especially when they pull this nonsense. I have an idea -- I'll be in LV in a few weeks. If you PM me how one goes about checking bet levels, I'll go into whichever MGM properties are doing this and get in a row with them. I don't know how to play these games, and I won't play these games. I just want to piss them off with somebody who doesn't know what they are doing drawing their fire.


Any comments? I enjoy this stuff, being as how I've never played these machines in my life, and I think being trespassed for just looking at them would be a hoot.

I'm starting to get some feedback. Mlife has pretty much declared war on slot AP's. Their only "crime" is only playing certain slots....and only playing them when they find them in advantage mode. There have been many removals in the last month. If I were in Las Vegas I would head right to those joints. With all the other AP's cleared out I would get all the plays and make a bunch of money. That is, until I get 86'd too. LOL!

Redietz, I'll get some screenshots today and PM them to you describing what to look for.

Probably a good idea to not even stick your players card in certain machines at MLife properties

[The Boz]

Cosmo killed the Ultimate X vultures a while back with setting the machines up so that multipliers disappear when the play crashes out and leaves. There was a cottage industry of vultures working Cosmo including some real dirtbags who ruined it for everyone.

I wonder if this isn’t the future and MGM & Caesars will work with game manufacturers to do the exact same things to certain machines. Obviously wouldn’t work with the Must Hits, but with the AF & GE’s and such, it probably would be a simple programming change.

But their are others like the HD’s where the casino actually promotes vulturing with flaming numbers and such that are in no way positive. But it draws plops in. So it’s a fine line for the casinos, they are OK f’ing someone who thinks they have an advantage, but want to bust the guy who actually does.

Nobody ever said they were good people.

[redietz]

If you PM me how one goes about checking bet levels

On some games its as simple as looking at the button panel and pressing the different bet amounts "75 credits" "150 credits" etc. If you are just trying to obviously be noticed without playing walk by a bank of Golden Egypts and do this to all the machines.

Thanks, pepe. I'll take some notes.

Can you imagine it would ever come to this? Mega-casinos with gazillions of dollars who put these machines on their floor, going after people playing the machines. SLOT MACHINES, for God's sake. If you're that worried, replace the goddamn machines! Don't waste manpower monitoring and PR explaining why you're tossing people.

[pepe]

stuff like this is probably why

https://twitter.com/#!/x/status/1058611264216215553


the less subtle/capable of long term thinking of the APs/wannabe APs are pissing off the ploppies with antics like this

[Dan Druff]

I can't get anyone to give any details on the strong arm removals.

Why do you think that is?

I don't know. There's a bunch of guys on twitter I network with. We basically trade information on different accumulator slots, especially new games. These guys are all over the country but some of them are in Las Vegas. Most of it is going on through Direct Messaging. One of them, regengambler, put the public message up that two machine AP's had been strong arm removed from MGM properties within a week of each other. Tonybigcharles jumped in and guessed one of them was counteverything and someone else jumped in and said it was. However, I DM'd counteverything and he said it wasn't him. I put up a public message asking if anyone knew details but so far no one has responded. It is well known that there is major heat in some strip casinos on some of the higher denom accumulators like Golden Egypt and Alladin's Fortune. Some of those machines have bet levels as high as $60 a spin so are super lucrative when one finds them in advantage mode. You have to check the different bet levels to find advantages and that's the tip off to surveillance and security.

It's funny you mention this, because at a certain Vegas casino (I won't say which), I noticed a security guard looking at me suspiciously when I was going through Golden Egypt and looking for +EV plays.

He didn't say anything, but it made me somewhat nervous.

[Dan Druff]

Cosmo killed the Ultimate X vultures a while back with setting the machines up so that multipliers disappear when the play crashes out and leaves. There was a cottage industry of vultures working Cosmo including some real dirtbags who ruined it for everyone.

I wonder if this isn’t the future and MGM & Caesars will work with game manufacturers to do the exact same things to certain machines. Obviously wouldn’t work with the Must Hits, but with the AF & GE’s and such, it probably would be a simple programming change.

But their are others like the HD’s where the casino actually promotes vulturing with flaming numbers and such that are in no way positive. But it draws plops in. So it’s a fine line for the casinos, they are OK f’ing someone who thinks they have an advantage, but want to bust the guy who actually does.

Nobody ever said they were good people.

What are you referring to as the "HD's", and can you explain this promo where they promoted vulturing with fake +EV numbers?

How did Cosmo change Ultimate X like that? It would have required a software change. Are you saying that they got the game manufacturer to make a special version of it?

Honestly if the casino wanted to end vulturing, they would just need to set a timer on the game which would reset them to -EV mode after either a cashout/card removal combo, or 15 minutes of no action when there was no card in the machine. That would prevent ploppies from getting screwed just because they cash out and redeposit for some reason, yet screw the APs who vulture the games.

[Dan Druff]

Just deleted 22 troll posts from various people, and moved 9 to the Singer containment thread.

Please do not hijack this thread with trolling, or I will kick you from it.

[AxelWolf]

Cosmo killed the Ultimate X vultures a while back with setting the machines up so that multipliers disappear when the play crashes out and leaves. There was a cottage industry of vultures working Cosmo including some real dirtbags who ruined it for everyone.

I wonder if this isn’t the future and MGM & Caesars will work with game manufacturers to do the exact same things to certain machines. Obviously wouldn’t work with the Must Hits, but with the AF & GE’s and such, it probably would be a simple programming change.

But their are others like the HD’s where the casino actually promotes vulturing with flaming numbers and such that are in no way positive. But it draws plops in. So it’s a fine line for the casinos, they are OK f’ing someone who thinks they have an advantage, but want to bust the guy who actually does.

Nobody ever said they were good people.

What are you referring to as the "HD's", and can you explain this promo where they promoted vulturing with fake +EV numbers?

How did Cosmo change Ultimate X like that? It would have required a software change. Are you saying that they got the game manufacturer to make a special version of it?

Honestly if the casino wanted to end vulturing, they would just need to set a timer on the game which would reset them to -EV mode after either a cashout/card removal combo, or 15 minutes of no action when there was no card in the machine. That would prevent ploppies from getting screwed just because they cash out and redeposit for some reason, yet screw the APs who vulture the games.

Harley Davidson. He said FLAIMING numbers(Not flaming as in gay) they light up with flames once they progress a few ticks. I never paied attention exactly when they start to flame, however, its fairly low. I think what Boz was saying is the flaiming numbers seem to indicate its a good deal or ready to hit at that point, but its not.

[mickeycrimm]

What are you referring to as the "HD's", and can you explain this promo where they promoted vulturing with fake +EV numbers?.

Dan, there is a thread on the Harley-Davidson slots right here on your forum. I think Boz is referring to idiots that think they are AP's playing the harley's because they see the flames on the progressive numbers and think it is due to hit. The flames start long before the game is in advantage mode.

[mickeycrimm]

Cosmo killed the Ultimate X vultures a while back with setting the machines up so that multipliers disappear when the play crashes out and leaves. There was a cottage industry of vultures working Cosmo including some real dirtbags who ruined it for everyone.

I wonder if this isn’t the future and MGM & Caesars will work with game manufacturers to do the exact same things to certain machines. Obviously wouldn’t work with the Must Hits, but with the AF & GE’s and such, it probably would be a simple programming change.

But their are others like the HD’s where the casino actually promotes vulturing with flaming numbers and such that are in no way positive. But it draws plops in. So it’s a fine line for the casinos, they are OK f’ing someone who thinks they have an advantage, but want to bust the guy who actually does.

Nobody ever said they were good people.

What are you referring to as the "HD's", and can you explain this promo where they promoted vulturing with fake +EV numbers?

How did Cosmo change Ultimate X like that? It would have required a software change. Are you saying that they got the game manufacturer to make a special version of it?

Honestly if the casino wanted to end vulturing, they would just need to set a timer on the game which would reset them to -EV mode after either a cashout/card removal combo, or 15 minutes of no action when there was no card in the machine. That would prevent ploppies from getting screwed just because they cash out and redeposit for some reason, yet screw the APs who vulture the games.

Harley Davidson. He said FLAIMING numbers(Not flaming as in gay) they light up with flames once they progress a few ticks. I never paied attention exactly when they start to flame, however, its fairly low. I think what Boz was saying is the flaiming numbers seem to indicate its a good deal or ready to hit at that point, but its not.

Mini starts flaming at 15, maxi at 16, mega at 32. And those numbers are way to low for the game to be in advantage mode.

[mickeycrimm]

Why do you think that is?

I don't know. There's a bunch of guys on twitter I network with. We basically trade information on different accumulator slots, especially new games. These guys are all over the country but some of them are in Las Vegas. Most of it is going on through Direct Messaging. One of them, regengambler, put the public message up that two machine AP's had been strong arm removed from MGM properties within a week of each other. Tonybigcharles jumped in and guessed one of them was counteverything and someone else jumped in and said it was. However, I DM'd counteverything and he said it wasn't him. I put up a public message asking if anyone knew details but so far no one has responded. It is well known that there is major heat in some strip casinos on some of the higher denom accumulators like Golden Egypt and Alladin's Fortune. Some of those machines have bet levels as high as $60 a spin so are super lucrative when one finds them in advantage mode. You have to check the different bet levels to find advantages and that's the tip off to surveillance and security.

It's funny you mention this, because at a certain Vegas casino (I won't say which), I noticed a security guard looking at me suspiciously when I was going through Golden Egypt and looking for +EV plays.

He didn't say anything, but it made me somewhat nervous.

If you go in there and do it everyday he will get rid of you. In the spots with heat you have to camouflage what you are doing. Stick a ticket in the machine, put it on the lowest bet, lowest multiplier, make some spins, all the while going through the bet levels a little at a time.

[mickeycrimm]

Okay. I finally got some information. The guy was playing advantage slots in Luxor when security approached him and asked for ID. He refused. They trespassed him. He walked over to Excalibur and was checking the HD's when he was tackled from behind and without warning by security. He went crashing to the floor with them on top of him. It broke his nose and a possible broken wrist. He lost a lot of blood. They had to bring in hazmat to clean it up. Robert Nersessian took the case and said it will cash for 125K to 200K.

The person this happened to is not just well known as a slot AP. He is also known in poker, baccarat and other forms of gambling.

[blackhole]

If you go in there and do it everyday he will get rid of you. In the spots with heat you have to camouflage what you are doing. Stick a ticket in the machine, put it on the lowest bet, lowest multiplier, make some spins, all the while going through the bet levels a little at a time.

Okay. I finally got some information. The guy was playing advantage slots in Luxor when security approached him and asked for ID. He refused. They trespassed him. He walked over to Excalibur and was checking the HD's when he was tackled from behind and without warning by security. He went crashing to the floor with them on top of him. It broke his nose and a possible broken wrist. He lost a lot of blood. They had to bring in hazmat to clean it up. Robert Nersessian took the case and said it will cash for 125K to 200K.

The person this happened to is not just well known as a slot AP. He is also known in poker, baccarat and other forms of gambling.

What a pathetic way to make a living.

[redietz]

Well, I worked security back in my youth, and we weren't all bad guys. Not all of it was pathetic.

[MaxPen]

Okay. I finally got some information. The guy was playing advantage slots in Luxor when security approached him and asked for ID. He refused. They trespassed him. He walked over to Excalibur and was checking the HD's when he was tackled from behind and without warning by security. He went crashing to the floor with them on top of him. It broke his nose and a possible broken wrist. He lost a lot of blood. They had to bring in hazmat to clean it up. Robert Nersessian took the case and said it will cash for 125K to 200K.

The person this happened to is not just well known as a slot AP. He is also known in poker, baccarat and other forms of gambling.

That is turning out to be a pretty lucrative vulture play.

[Alan Mendelson]

Security checked his ID for what reason? They manhandled him for what reason? Only because he was an AP?

I find that BOTH disturbing AND hard to believe.