Strong Arm Removal at MGM

[Mission146]

No I think you self proclaimed APs are just getting carried away with yourselves and your self importance.

But carry on. It's entertaining.

The problem you're running into is that they are not throwing AP's out just for vulturing per se, but throwing everyone who vultures out also succeeds in them getting out most of the people who they are actually worried about. They're probably worried about the two general types of, "Creators," more than anything.

I should also hope that much of this is confined to high-limit areas, but I guess you never know. It's especially hard to say with MLIFE, from what I've heard. I would definitely understand it in HL rooms on the Vegas Strip why you wouldn't want those players fucked with if you're the casino. Even some local casinos I am familiar with have a sign in the high-limit room that it is for, "Active players," I'll take a picture of such a sign if you like. For that, I just have a ticket in my hand when I go in for a couple hundred, stick it in the first machine I want to check and then play a hand or two as small as possible if it looks like anyone is paying attention to me. It usually doesn't come to that and I'm about 99% sure they don't care about me, anyway, but no harm in taking precautions.

[redietz]

This comment by Rob makes sense:

They don't care who hits them because they get the profitable amount of play regardless.

Sure it does. But they only want the suckers to win them as they'll lose it all back. The sharps will walk out the door with it looking for the next mark.

Oh please. Since when do APs quit when ahead?

This is a very weird session-fixated question. It reveals Mr. Mendelson's inability to face the long term, and its results. Take a moment to examine the odd question, "Since when do APs quit when ahead?"


If you cannot figure out what is odd, that tells you something about yourself. Although I'm not sure that I qualify as an "AP," I play 40-80 hours of video poker a year. I am ahead lifetime a modest amount (I play mostly quarters), roughly 5K right now. For the last three or four years, the amount I have been ahead has varied between high 3K and low 5K.


So for years, I have always "quit when ahead." I've been ahead at video poker for more than decade, so every single time I have ended a session, I am ahead lifetime. That is what the word "ahead" means.


If you think that perspective is strange, I ask why. That perspective is actual reality without the blinders of preferring to treat the most recent activity as somehow sealed off from the rest.


Language counts. It affects how people perceive the world and relate to it. Definitions matter. Argentino brags on an 85% session win rate. When you think about it, I have a decade long streak of "quitting when ahead" every single time. I have gone more than a decade without being behind. I have been ahead the entire time, 100%.


So what helps one perceive reality? Keeping a tally of how many sessions one finishes with a "profit for the session," or keeping a tally of being ahead, period?

If you've managed to live to a ripe old age as an AP, you are, in normal language, always quitting when ahead. It's the people who are motivated to prefer long-term result amnesia who render some kind of priority to using the phrase "quitting when ahead" to sessions instead of reality.

[Rob.Singer]

The Peppermill Corp. issues WRITTEN statements when they ban anyone from playing a certain game or games for any reason. Most reputable casinos would do this also. It's called "protection". All you pathetic people do is throw out a bunch of feel-good assertions about "other players" and "I heard this....I heard that so it must be true since I want it to be because I'm an AP" or "there's no doubt about it because six anonymous people are claiming it RIGHT NOW on another forum!"

Do you idiots even NOTICE the absurdity of your continuous flow of BS every time you try to bolster the unproven claims of others who say they're like what you claim to be? If that digs away at you, how about somebody from somewhere produce one of these bannings in writing on casino letterhead, like most or all casinos--esp MGM--would require be given out!

But you can't, can you. Anonymous fools simply want anonymous claims to go on and on.

[Rob.Singer]

This comment by Rob makes sense:

They don't care who hits them because they get the profitable amount of play regardless.

Sure it does. But they only want the suckers to win them as they'll lose it all back. The sharps will walk out the door with it looking for the next mark.

This is stupid and obviously comes from someone completely devoid of rational business decision-making sense.

Let me spell it out to you yet again: THE SLOT MACHINE BRINGS IN THE SAME AMOUNT OF PROFIT WHETHER A GRANNY OR A TRUCKER OR A "FEARED AP" WINS THE JACKPOT. THAT'S THE ONLY GOAL WITH THE MUST-HIT-BY JACKPOTS.

By nature, ap's are sick gamblers who casinos know will respond readily to anything that appears lucrative. No one knows if granny will stick around. Truckers usually can't. But there is a whopping good chance that ap's will be back with that jackpot cash, chasing some other promotion that they were specifically reeled in for. And whether or not it's simply to contribute to the next must-hit-by jackpot, their continued action is guaranteed at a far higher clip than granny's.

Wise up....and stop making things up.

[redietz]

The Peppermill Corp. issues WRITTEN statements when they ban anyone from playing a certain game or games for any reason. Most reputable casinos would do this also. It's called "protection". All you pathetic people do is throw out a bunch of feel-good assertions about "other players" and "I heard this....I heard that so it must be true since I want it to be because I'm an AP" or "there's no doubt about it because six anonymous people are claiming it RIGHT NOW on another forum!"

Do you idiots even NOTICE the absurdity of your continuous flow of BS every time you try to bolster the unproven claims of others who say they're like what you claim to be? If that digs away at you, how about somebody from somewhere produce one of these bannings in writing on casino letterhead, like most or all casinos--esp MGM--would require be given out!

But you can't, can you. Anonymous fools simply want anonymous claims to go on and on.

Well, I am going to do my best in December to get thrown out of MGM. If anyone has any hints that would make me look like a slot AP, pass them long. If there's a dress code, let me know. I will do my level best to do the things that will get one thrown out.

[mickeycrimm]

The Peppermill Corp. issues WRITTEN statements when they ban anyone from playing a certain game or games for any reason. Most reputable casinos would do this also. It's called "protection". All you pathetic people do is throw out a bunch of feel-good assertions about "other players" and "I heard this....I heard that so it must be true since I want it to be because I'm an AP" or "there's no doubt about it because six anonymous people are claiming it RIGHT NOW on another forum!"

Do you idiots even NOTICE the absurdity of your continuous flow of BS every time you try to bolster the unproven claims of others who say they're like what you claim to be? If that digs away at you, how about somebody from somewhere produce one of these bannings in writing on casino letterhead, like most or all casinos--esp MGM--would require be given out!

But you can't, can you. Anonymous fools simply want anonymous claims to go on and on.

In 2002 I played $1 Full Pay Deuces Wild at the Peppermill for three days. When at the booth to get comps the boothling told me I was assigned a casino host and they would want to meet me. The next time I went to get a comp a boothling told me I had an appointment that afternoon with the casino host. I blew the meeting off. My buddy Al had been on the play longer than me and had met the casino host. Al called me and told me about the play and that's how I got there.

On the third day this casino host comes up to the bank and says

"Al, I'm disqualifying you from all drawings and special events."
"What the hell for?" said Al.
"C'mon, Al. You know you are a pro. But I'm leaving your comp alone for now. Now I have to find this Crimm guy and tell him too." said the casino host.
"I know him. I'll tell him for you." said Al.

The casino host walked off not knowing I was sitting there listening to what he said. The deuce play wasn't worth that much, about $30 an hour. It was the drawings that made the play lucrative. So we drug up on the play.

It was about 2007 that Pepp and Atlantis started trading information and pulled the cards of a lot of AP's. That's the way the Pepp did it. They didn't 86 you. They pulled your card benefits.

Edit: Part of the Pepp casino host's job was to profile players and weed out the pros.

[regnis]

The Peppermill Corp. issues WRITTEN statements when they ban anyone from playing a certain game or games for any reason. Most reputable casinos would do this also. It's called "protection". All you pathetic people do is throw out a bunch of feel-good assertions about "other players" and "I heard this....I heard that so it must be true since I want it to be because I'm an AP" or "there's no doubt about it because six anonymous people are claiming it RIGHT NOW on another forum!"

Do you idiots even NOTICE the absurdity of your continuous flow of BS every time you try to bolster the unproven claims of others who say they're like what you claim to be? If that digs away at you, how about somebody from somewhere produce one of these bannings in writing on casino letterhead, like most or all casinos--esp MGM--would require be given out!

But you can't, can you. Anonymous fools simply want anonymous claims to go on and on.

Well, I am going to do my best in December to get thrown out of MGM. If anyone has any hints that would make me look like a slot AP, pass them long. If there's a dress code, let me know. I will do my level best to do the things that will get one thrown out.

Try this look Redietz. If you don't get thrown out you might get lucky instead.

[mickeycrimm]

The Peppermill Corp. issues WRITTEN statements when they ban anyone from playing a certain game or games for any reason. Most reputable casinos would do this also. It's called "protection". All you pathetic people do is throw out a bunch of feel-good assertions about "other players" and "I heard this....I heard that so it must be true since I want it to be because I'm an AP" or "there's no doubt about it because six anonymous people are claiming it RIGHT NOW on another forum!"

Do you idiots even NOTICE the absurdity of your continuous flow of BS every time you try to bolster the unproven claims of others who say they're like what you claim to be? If that digs away at you, how about somebody from somewhere produce one of these bannings in writing on casino letterhead, like most or all casinos--esp MGM--would require be given out!

But you can't, can you. Anonymous fools simply want anonymous claims to go on and on.

Complete Rubbish, Robocchio. For starters, how do they send a letter to someone who refuses to show ID?

[Alan Mendelson]

Mickeycrimm in all your years have you ever been strongarmed? Is there ANY member of this forum who has ever been strongarmed?

[mickeycrimm]

Mickeycrimm in all your years have you ever been strongarmed? Is there ANY member of this forum who has ever been strongarmed?

No, but it does happen.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...WZQ1hluYXMIP7T

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...de3BVmCNuPB0fH

[redietz]

The Peppermill Corp. issues WRITTEN statements when they ban anyone from playing a certain game or games for any reason. Most reputable casinos would do this also. It's called "protection". All you pathetic people do is throw out a bunch of feel-good assertions about "other players" and "I heard this....I heard that so it must be true since I want it to be because I'm an AP" or "there's no doubt about it because six anonymous people are claiming it RIGHT NOW on another forum!"

Do you idiots even NOTICE the absurdity of your continuous flow of BS every time you try to bolster the unproven claims of others who say they're like what you claim to be? If that digs away at you, how about somebody from somewhere produce one of these bannings in writing on casino letterhead, like most or all casinos--esp MGM--would require be given out!

But you can't, can you. Anonymous fools simply want anonymous claims to go on and on.

Well, I am going to do my best in December to get thrown out of MGM. If anyone has any hints that would make me look like a slot AP, pass them long. If there's a dress code, let me know. I will do my level best to do the things that will get one thrown out.

Try this look Redietz. If you don't get thrown out you might get lucky instead.

I prefer maroon. That is a severe look. I wonder about the waist down.

Onceuponatime, I knew a Bowie lookalike. Had a 24-inch waist. That I cannot pull off.

[redietz]

I'm not sure I'm an "AP," but let's assume for a moment that I count. When making sports bets, I have used a card some places, and purposefully not used it, even when asked, at others. One must provide formal ID when asked, but that formal ID does not necessarily have a social security number. Some states allow no social or it's optional. I never have my social on formal ID. Casinos cannot force you to provide a social.

[RS__]

I'm not sure I'm an "AP," but let's assume for a moment that I count. When making sports bets, I have used a card some places, and purposefully not used it, even when asked, at others. One must provide formal ID when asked, but that formal ID does not necessarily have a social security number. Some states allow no social or it's optional. I never have my social on formal ID. Casinos cannot force you to provide a social.

Legally, you don’t have to show ID. In what circumstance are you saying you must provide formal ID when asked?

[redietz]

I'm not sure I'm an "AP," but let's assume for a moment that I count. When making sports bets, I have used a card some places, and purposefully not used it, even when asked, at others. One must provide formal ID when asked, but that formal ID does not necessarily have a social security number. Some states allow no social or it's optional. I never have my social on formal ID. Casinos cannot force you to provide a social.

Legally, you don’t have to show ID. In what circumstance are you saying you must provide formal ID when asked?

When making or cashing reasonably sizeable futures wagers.

[Barney]

This is Barney,

I occasionally see the casino security personages take away slut machine campers because it is costing them the monies. Smartest casino security personages know when the must hit slut machine devices gets close and they call their relatives and split the winnings with them. The slut machine camper personages is taking the bread off the casino personage tables and it pisses them off to no end so they take action to give the ploppies and EV hunters the shits. It is like an expected performance bonus to their regular low wages.

[Alan Mendelson]

RS wrote "Legally, you don’t have to show ID." I don't know if that's true, but I do know that if you don't have ID the casino can make you leave their property.

A drivers license does not have a Social Security number. I don't know of any ID that has your SS# except your SS card. Is there another ID with that number on it? Why is it there?

[kewlJ]

Ok you machine AP guys...welcome to my (and by "my" I mean card counters collectively) world. Backoffs, 86ings, figuring out what is and isn't tolerated and the ensuing cat and mouse game.

I think the discussion goes something like this: Young whippersnapper accountant reporting to casino management. "We had a banner year last year. 10 billion in profit. Our best year ever. But there is something troubling me. There appears to be a small number of players that are winning". Casino management: "Oh no! we must put a stop to this! How are they cheating?" "well sir, they are not really cheating. They are playing by the rules. They are just using their brain and winning. They collectively won hundreds of thousands of dollars". (that would be .001 of 1%)


So management does their things. Changing rules (blackjack) or paytables (video poker)...whatever they have to do to make sure there are no winners. And the stupid ones like this story, will try intimidation...illegal intimidation. And they will pay, hundreds of thousands of dollars in lawsuit judgements and far more in bad publicity. Bob Nersesian is already on this case. There is no question of anything. The outcome will be the casino loses...and the key piece of evidence that does them in is their own video footage. We have seen it all before. Anyone remember the definition of insanity?

Meanwhile the likes of Benny Binion and the "real" casino Guys are rolling over in their graves. They understood that a few players winning is a good thing. Players need to know that the games can be beaten. That is what keeps them coming back. For every player that walks out the door with a little bit of winnings, whether AP or just lucky winning player, that money comes back 10 fold. But these new whippersnapper casino management guys starting I guess about the turn of the century (maybe 1990's) just have no clue. They are hell bent on making sure no one wins. And in the end..."the longrun"....that will include the casinos themselves.

It is really the one of the same arguments that we have been dealing with here on this site for some time. Like Alan, Singer, and that crowd, this new brand of "casino management" either doesn't understand or has lost site of the long run. Just like the Alan/Singer crowd, they are focused on the short term. The real casino guys understood about the longterm, same as the AP's on this forum. Yep Benny is rolling over just shaking his head.

[Alan Mendelson]

It's not just horses. But a bet that pays 300 to 1 or better requires a W2G which includes having a social security number. I have to check the $ threshold amount but a $5 Fire Bet at craps hitting all 6 requires a W2G.

While I don't bet sports I'm guessing there must be some bets that pay 300 to 1 or better outside of horses????

[redietz]

It's not just horses. But a bet that pays 300 to 1 or better requires a W2G which includes having a social security number. I have to check the $ threshold amount but a $5 Fire Bet at craps hitting all 6 requires a W2G.

While I don't bet sports I'm guessing there must be some bets that pay 300 to 1 or better outside of horses????

LOL. They have to win.

And who in his right mind would play a 300-1 future with a tax burden when you could bet it offshore?

Oh wait, that's right. Parlay cards. You'd get W2Gs for parlay cards. Of course, who in his right mind would play parlay cards with 300-1 odds, risking a tax burden? Wouldn't you just break up the lineup and play separate cards to get under the 300-1? Probably not if you're playing parlays to begin with, eh?

I don't know much about video poker, and nothing about craps. It is truly frightening when you two start asking questions regarding something I actually know a bit about. You come across as doofuses.

Mr. Mendelson coming to Rob's defense. Boy, you two need some remedial gambling work. Or maybe just remedial work in general.

I hear Opportunity Village is hiring. It's Billy Walters' favorite charity.

[Alan Mendelson]

And who in his right mind would play a 300-1 future with a tax burden when you could bet it offshore?


I didn't know that overseas gambling winnings were not taxable. Thanks redietz for pointing that out.