Sequential Reversible Royal machine ($210k jackpot)

[Alan Mendelson]

I have a practical question: How do you get the seat when must-hit slots are near their payoff point? It doesn't take an AP to be able to see the must hit numbers and jump in.

As I've mentioned, when the big $20,000 progressive is north of $19,800 at Red Rock you can't find an open machine.

I also told you about the $1 video poker reversible royals. The jackpot is now north of $210,000 and you probably won't get one of the five seats. Ever since it went north of $206,000 there has been a steady stream of players because people "think" it's due. Of course there is no "due" with a sequential royal but people think that way.

It's also why you can't find a seat at the 25-cent video poker progressives when the royal is north of $2800 because people think it's due.

So again, how do the APs get their seat when anyone in the casino can see the same signs and meters?

[RS__]

MaxPen there was no reason for you to refer to me in your response to Rob. Frankly I think mickeycrimm has done good work here regarding these particular slots.

I do have a practical question: how do you get the seat when these slots are near their payoff point? It doesn't take an AP to be able to see the must hit numbers and jump in.

As I've mentioned, when the big $20,000 progressive is north of $19,800 at Red Rock you can't find an open machine.

I also told you about the $1 video poker reversible royals. The jackpot is now north of $210,000 and you probably won't get one of the five seats. Ever since it went north of $206,000 there has been a steady stream of players because people "think" it's due. Of course there is no "due" with a sequential royal but people think that way.

It's also why you can't find a seat at the 25-cent video poker progressives when the royal is north of $2800 because people think it's due.

So again, how do the APs get their seat when anyone in the casino can see the same signs and meters?

How do they?

[AxelWolf]

MaxPen there was no reason for you to refer to me in your response to Rob. Frankly I think mickeycrimm has done good work here regarding these particular slots.

I do have a practical question: how do you get the seat when these slots are near their payoff point? It doesn't take an AP to be able to see the must hit numbers and jump in.

As I've mentioned, when the big $20,000 progressive is north of $19,800 at Red Rock you can't find an open machine.

I also told you about the $1 video poker reversible royals. The jackpot is now north of $210,000 and you probably won't get one of the five seats. Ever since it went north of $206,000 there has been a steady stream of players because people "think" it's due. Of course there is no "due" with a sequential royal but people think that way.

It's also why you can't find a seat at the 25-cent video poker progressives when the royal is north of $2800 because people think it's due.

So again, how do the APs get their seat when anyone in the casino can see the same signs and meters?

I don't know what paytable you are talking about on the .25 progressive, however, there may be AP's that jump on it, not because they think its due, but because they think its + EV. Again, since I dont know what the paytable is, I dont know if that's the case. However, you are correct, most people believe things are due to hit and or they believe it will hit before a certain number. "it never gets this high, it's going to hit soon"

Even employees who have been working at the casinos for years in slots think this crazy stuff.

I used to have a neighbor that was a slot tech (A tech not just a floor person) He had all kinds of crazy ideas about how to beat Video Poker. I tried to tell him that was all nonsense, but of course, he was the expert. FYI he went broke, lost his job, and had to move back home with his parents. He sold me his 78 280Z for dirt cheap I think I paid him $400. I kinda gave it to a friend so he could scout for us. He paid me some money but not enough, I just said forget about it. I wish i still had the car now.

[Alan Mendelson]

Axel, the paytables on the 25-cent progressives are terrible. 6/5 Bonus Poker, for example. But you're playing for the royal, not for full houses and flushes.

[AxelWolf]

Axel, the paytables on the 25-cent progressives are terrible. 6/5 Bonus Poker, for example. But you're playing for the royal, not for full houses and flushes.

that prog was slightly over 1% advantage. Not sure what the cash back, free play, comps and meter movement was worth but i assume there would be mistakes made along the way. I would just call it 1%.


Thers a chance AP's were playing it. Not because it was due, but because it was positive EV.

[Alan Mendelson]

Axel, the paytables on the 25-cent progressives are terrible. 6/5 Bonus Poker, for example. But you're playing for the royal, not for full houses and flushes.

that prog was slightly over 1% advantage. Not sure what the cash back, free play, comps and meter movement was worth but i assume there would be mistakes made along the way. I would just call it 1%.


Thers a chance AP's were playing it. Not because it was due, but because it was positive EV.

With these progressives you get the usual "points" for your play. Red Rock does have greater than 100% payback VP but the points for play are restricted.

Points are what determine your cashback and comps.

[The Boz]

Full Houses and Flushes are how you survive to live to play for the Royal. More Alan flawed thinking.

[Alan Mendelson]

Full Houses and Flushes are how you survive to live to play for the Royal. More Alan flawed thinking.

And you ignore the progressive because that doesn't make the weak paytable +EV?

[AxelWolf]

Full Houses and Flushes are how you survive to live to play for the Royal. More Alan flawed thinking.

And you ignore the progressive because that doesn't make the weak paytable +EV?

You shouldn't ignore either but I know YOU would ignore the rest of the paytable going far too aggressive for the Royal. I can imagine you tossing out pairs for single high cards. holding 2 card royals(A 10 ss even) over 4 flushes and shit like that.

[Alan Mendelson]

Full Houses and Flushes are how you survive to live to play for the Royal. More Alan flawed thinking.

And you ignore the progressive because that doesn't make the weak paytable +EV?

You shouldn't ignore either but I know YOU would ignore the rest of the paytable going far too aggressive for the Royal. I can imagine you tossing out pairs for single high cards. holding 2 card royals(A 10 ss even) over 4 flushes and shit like that.

Two card royals vs 4 flushes? No.
3 card royals vs 4 flushes -- YES.

If I'm going to play a 6/5 paytable the royal had better be big. Otherwise Red Rock has plenty of 8/5 Bonus games at 25-cents.

[AxelWolf]

And you ignore the progressive because that doesn't make the weak paytable +EV?

You shouldn't ignore either but I know YOU would ignore the rest of the paytable going far too aggressive for the Royal. I can imagine you tossing out pairs for single high cards. holding 2 card royals(A 10 ss even) over 4 flushes and shit like that.

Two card royals vs 4 flushes? No.
3 card royals vs 4 flushes -- YES.

If I'm going to play a 6/5 paytable the royal had better be big. Otherwise Red Rock has plenty of 8/5 Bonus games at 25-cents.

What do you consider big(and no, your 1/2 inch limp dick isnt big )?

Would you rather play 8/5 bonus over that $2800 prog?

[BadBeet]

Full Houses and Flushes are how you survive to live to play for the Royal. More Alan flawed thinking.

2-Pair is worth much more than the flushes or full houses.

[Alan Mendelson]

Boz stop your moronic posts.

I'll spell it out for you slowly.

The $1 sequential progressive at Red Rock has a 7/5 paytable for Bonus. If I was concerned about the paytable I'd be playing the 8/5 Bonus game that is two feet away from the sequential machines.

So, if I'm going to play for the sequential then I'm going to make the plays to hit the sequential.

Now try to think like a real player and stop being an asshole.

[The Boz]

Boz stop your moronic posts.

I'll spell it out for you slowly.

The $1 sequential progressive at Red Rock has a 7/5 paytable for Bonus. If I was concerned about the paytable I'd be playing the 8/5 Bonus game that is two feet away from the sequential machines.

So, if I'm going to play for the sequential then I'm going to make the plays to hit the sequential.

Now try to think like a real player and stop being an asshole.

Sorry Alan, you just don’t get it. You can do both, but what you posted about how to play doesn’t make mathematical sense.

You are talking about gambling and looking for luck compared to making the mathematically correct plays. Even in situations you mentioned.

Trying not to make insulting posts toward you, but damn you make it so easy.

[Mission146]

Boz stop your moronic posts.

I'll spell it out for you slowly.

The $1 sequential progressive at Red Rock has a 7/5 paytable for Bonus. If I was concerned about the paytable I'd be playing the 8/5 Bonus game that is two feet away from the sequential machines.

So, if I'm going to play for the sequential then I'm going to make the plays to hit the sequential.

Now try to think like a real player and stop being an asshole.

Alan,

The math on this one is painfully simple. If you have a dealt flush on a $1 denomination game, that's $25. To hit this reverse sequential royal holding one card in the correct position, this is what needs to happen:

(1/47)*(1/46)*(1/45)*(1/44) = 2.33603379e-7 or .000000233603379

If the progressive were one million dollars, your added value would be (1000000-4000) * .000000233603379 = 0.23266896548

We can now go and use the Hand Analyzer, I believe you said 7/5 Bonus:

https://wizardofodds.com/games/video...hand-analyzer/

What I'm going to do is give you the best situation possible for throwing away the flush. We're going to say that you get dealt a flush with no straight/straight-flush penalty cards to a jack, which gives you the most possible ways to make a straight-flush whilst still having a high card. I'm going to have you get dealt 2-3-4-J-7 (I considered 2-3-4-6 so there would be no SF penalty to the Jack, but then that makes 2-3-4-6 the second-best hold by a longshot) and you are going to keep the Jack. This is good because the Jack becomes a better hold than 2-3-4.

The value of holding just the jack is: (0.470630 * 5) = 2.35315

Now, we add the added value of the Progressive which, in our example, is at a million bucks:

2.35315 + 0.23266896548 = 2.58581896548

With all due respect, you may be right that holding this for the big score is how some, "Real players," think...and these would be the same, "Real players," that have kept the casino's lights on for quite some time.

[RS__]

So Alan just said he would not hold 2-card royal draw over a 4-card flush draw on a game with 2.8x RF meter. Then a few posts later he says he’d hold a lone sequential royal card instead of a dealt flush or straight, assuming that card is in the proper position, when the sequential royal is at $210k on $1 denom.

What is the nicest way to say, “No shit, that’s why you’re broke, dumbass.” ?

[Alan Mendelson]

Look Boz it's just an "academic discussion" because I haven't played that progressive and I won't play it. I'm not going to play a reduced paytable with a one in two million chance of hitting. Okay?

But why do you keep bringing up "mathematically correct" plays when discussing this progressive? When playing for a sequential royal your only concern is getting the royal cards in the right position.

Now shut up about me and my family because you don't know shit about our affairs.

[MisterV]

Now shut up about me and my family because you don't know shit about our affairs.

Says the guy who opened his closet door in order to expose his skeletons to the forum.

[The Boz]

Look Boz it's just an "academic discussion" because I haven't played that progressive and I won't play it. I'm not going to play a reduced paytable with a one in two million chance of hitting. Okay?

But why do you keep bringing up "mathematically correct" plays when discussing this progressive? When playing for a sequential royal your only concern is getting the royal cards in the right position.

Now shut up about me and my family because you don't know shit about our affairs.

As RS said, no it’s not. And you’re right, I don’t know shit about your family affairs, only what your son put out there. And based on him saying you are full of shit multiple times, including your claims about him hitting 3 Royals in a weekend and still losing.

I only take him at his word you screwed him, because to the untrained eye, he seems a hell of a lot more credible.

Just using basic math...yea I know.

[Alan Mendelson]

Let me sum it up this way.

If you want to play by the mathematically correct way then play 8/5 Bonus or any of the 100%+ video poker games available. At Red Rock I think there are ten machines with 100%+ VP games.

But if you want to hit the sequential royal, play the sequential royal cards.

Tell me this Boz and RS: if you are dealt
10d 7d Qd 3d Ad
are you "mathematically correct APs" going to hold the dealt flush?

Tell me that you would and then the world will know what buffoons you really are.