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Thread: Online bonus clearing, did I do it right?

  1. #21
    Bovada has been around for almost 20 years, and has an excellent reputation for paying people. They're not perfect, and I've had issues with them at times, but they don't just randomly screw people.

    They have been clamping down HARD in recent years against sports multiaccounters (such as prop bettors who get their limits reduced, and then use other accounts to get around it), as well as bonus whores who repeatedly deposit just to get and run bonuses, and but otherwise don't play.

    I actually had my bonuses permanently killed by Bovada about 2-3 years ago for a stupid reason. I had a lot of money on the site at the time (like $45k), and they had a bitcoin promotion where you could get 100% deposit bonus for doing a bitcoin deposit. So I did that (it was clearable via poker), which basically was the equivalent to rakeback for me. Knowing they might bitch about this, I called up beforehand and asked if this was okay (to deposit when I already had 45k on the site), and the rep said yes.

    Well, the rep was wrong. My account was locked.

    I spoke to some obnoxious Filipino dude in security, who scolded me for "abusing bonuses", and kept demanding to know why I would deposit when I already had $45k on there. I told him the truth -- that I was offered a bonus, that I would earn it through poker play, and that their own rep said it was fine to do.

    The guy told me he would pull the call and listen. He called me back a few hours later and conceded that the rep did give me permission.

    "I'll unlock your account now, but I am disabling your bonuses on Bovada forever," he said.

    I tried to argue, and he wouldn't budge.
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  2. #22
    Also, on the 2+2 Forums, they have a long running thread regarding Bovada payouts. If there were a problem with people getting paid, we'd know it quickly.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  3. #23
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Also, on the 2+2 Forums, they have a long running thread regarding Bovada payouts. If there were a problem with people getting paid, we'd know it quickly.
    Glad to know you pros are well ahead of the ball where regulation is non-existent. It’s obvious that regardless what the conditions and risks that come with off-shore gambling and USA customers are irrelevant as long as the gambler could get a bet down.

    The billions of dollars stolen and seized from USA customers in the past are also irrelevant until your own money ends up in that statistic.

    Did you ever consider you might have a gambling problem?
    Last edited by blackhole; 11-26-2018 at 08:58 AM.

  4. #24
    I don't bet offshore but was involved with a bad experience with Bovada. My friend had been betting, and losing, on sports and horses with Bovada for years. He was going through a rough time and asked me to help him out. So I started giving him horses at Woodbine in Canada. After he had several substantial wins, Bovada cut him off and refused to pay. Ultimately, we got his account re-opened. They wouldn't pay him out but let him bet against it in sports, not horses. They claimed he was getting inside information. In actuality, it was just a brief hot streak and they, like the casino, should know to just ride it out.

  5. #25
    Originally Posted by regnis View Post
    I don't bet offshore but was involved with a bad experience with Bovada. My friend had been betting, and losing, on sports and horses with Bovada for years. He was going through a rough time and asked me to help him out. So I started giving him horses at Woodbine in Canada. After he had several substantial wins, Bovada cut him off and refused to pay. Ultimately, we got his account re-opened. They wouldn't pay him out but let him bet against it in sports, not horses. They claimed he was getting inside information. In actuality, it was just a brief hot streak and they, like the casino, should know to just ride it out.
    Lol

  6. #26
    Originally Posted by blackhole View Post
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Also, on the 2+2 Forums, they have a long running thread regarding Bovada payouts. If there were a problem with people getting paid, we'd know it quickly.
    Glad to know you pros are well ahead of the ball where regulation is non-existent. It’s obvious that regardless what the conditions and risks that come with off-shore gambling and USA customers are irrelevant as long as the gambler could get a bet down.

    The billions of dollars stolen and seized from USA customers in the past are also irrelevant until your own money ends up in that statistic.

    Did you ever consider you might have a gambling problem?
    It's a calculated risk.

    You look at the online site, and even the +EV situations (including poker) have to be tempered by the reliability of the site.

    Some sites, such as Bovada, pay out very reliably. The chance of legitimately winning money on Bovada and not getting paid is fairly small.

    A lot of the smaller sites can easily screw you at any point, and they often have. I don't play on those.

    There is no money "seized" from US customers. When the US busts an offshore site, any money seized gets returned to the players (though this can take awhile), and they keep the remainder. This is more for PR reasons than anything else, but that's the way it's done.

    Anyway, the offshore site situation isn't ideal, but for most states in the US, that's all we've got at the moment if we want to play online.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  7. #27
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    It's a calculated risk.
    A lot of the smaller sites can easily screw you at any point, and they often have. I don't play on those.
    Anyway, the offshore site situation isn't ideal, but for most states in the US, that's all we've got at the moment if we want to play online.
    I now understand you loud and clear.

  8. #28
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by OnceDear View Post
    Thanks for your worthless feedback, Rob. Nothing here for you sir, so GFY.

    I must be dumb as a bag of rocks and I'm not even a math wizz.

    I agree that MOST of those juicy sounding bonuses are bait and MOST are viciously -EV

    But that's why this dumb-ass bag of rocks only accept the bonuses where the casino has seriously fcuked up in it's implementation of wagering requirements (E.g. saying that blackjack only contributes 10% to wagering requirements and then actually programming the site to give 100%)

    Even the OP, for all his ignorant stupidity, walked away with a good profit from his bonus offer. Real $$$ in the bank. Maybe he can invest it in one of your special plays and be as wised up as you.
    Why is the OP ignorant and stupid?
    In my opinion he is not. I was pointing out that despite Rob Singer's assertion that "anybody who plays casino games at online casinos is dumb as a bag of rocks." that the OP made a nice profit. Sort of goes along with my thanking Rob for his worthless feedback

  9. #29
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    It's a calculated risk.
    Exactly that. ^^^
    I play almost exclusively online, sometimes exploiting advantages and sometimes as a recreational degenerate.* I HAVE been stiffed a couple of times by mainstream gaffs**, but each time for minimal amounts. It just has to be anticipated as a cost of playing and has to be countered with some precautions: E.g. don't maintain a massive balance and half expect to have your account frozen or bonuses cancelled.
    *I can afford to be degenerate.
    **I'm not in the US and have no comment to make about the US legal position. But European operators can be equally shady, if not worse.

  10. #30
    Originally Posted by OnceDear View Post
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    It's a calculated risk.
    Exactly that. ^^^
    I play almost exclusively online, sometimes exploiting advantages and sometimes as a recreational degenerate.* I HAVE been stiffed a couple of times by mainstream gaffs**, but each time for minimal amounts. It just has to be anticipated as a cost of playing and has to be countered with some precautions: E.g. don't maintain a massive balance and half expect to have your account frozen or bonuses cancelled.
    *I can afford to be degenerate.
    **I'm not in the US and have no comment to make about the US legal position. But European operators can be equally shady, if not worse.
    This coming from a Mike Shank. back patting site enforcer.

    When you figured out how to exploit an online advantage, please explain how the math confirms a green light when you might not get paid after winning?

    According to you it’s ok if you lose fair and square, and yet, you just through your hands in the air and yell out "shit happens", when you win fair and square and don’t get paid.

    If European operators who allegedly have gaming enforcement can be equally shady, if not worse than the ones excepting USA gamblers while performing illegal banking transactions, without gaming enforcement, only shines a light on how stupid European degenerates actually are.

    It’s obvious, and by your own confirmation that you’re a degenerate gambler which explains your ridiculous post accepting not getting paid. This type of post explains why you were picked to moderate the WOV. You fit in perfectly.

  11. #31
    Good to see you stopping in occasionally OD. Not as PC as the other place but the site could use a few knowledgeable posters like yourself to grow. And overcome the garbage from a few idiots who will argue if the sun will come up tomorrow.

    PS, no hard feelings on the ding, F ZK, lol.

  12. #32
    Originally Posted by The Boz View Post
    Good to see you stopping in occasionally OD. Not as PC as the other place but the site could use a few knowledgeable posters like yourself to grow. And overcome the garbage from a few idiots who will argue if the sun will come up tomorrow.

    PS, no hard feelings on the ding, F ZK, lol.

    Maybe since Boz is not a restricted poster needing a clearance to post here, and if this site could draw a few more knowledgeable WOV posters like the demonstration OnceDear just posted it could be like old times again here.

    Wow Boz, you are a loser.

  13. #33
    Originally Posted by blackhole View Post
    Originally Posted by The Boz View Post
    Good to see you stopping in occasionally OD. Not as PC as the other place but the site could use a few knowledgeable posters like yourself to grow. And overcome the garbage from a few idiots who will argue if the sun will come up tomorrow.

    PS, no hard feelings on the ding, F ZK, lol.

    Maybe since Boz is not a restricted poster needing a clearance to post here, and if this site could draw a few more knowledgeable WOV posters like the demonstration OnceDear just posted it could be like old times again here.

    Wow Boz, you are a loser.
    Yes I may be, but coming from you I feel like the king of the world.

    Ever site needs a pathetic loser to keep it going, Luckily I’m in good company here with you Mr Hole.

  14. #34
    Originally Posted by blackhole View Post

    Maybe since Boz is not a restricted poster needing a clearance to post here, and if this site could draw a few more knowledgeable WOV posters like the demonstration OnceDear just posted it could be like old times again here.

    Wow Boz, you are a loser.

    A Loser does not walk on the beach and enjoy ground up beef from thousands of different cows on Thanksgiving Day!

  15. #35
    Thanks Boz,
    Even if I had anything useful to contribute here, I'd be disinclined to bother. It's too -ev for even a profitable degenerate to have to put up with some of the shit that gets thrown about here, especially to Shanks lackies. Sometimes funny to watch the infighting though, until the regulars line up together to take a pop at WOV members.
    To give something of an answer to Blackhole. The worst time I got stiffed by an online gaff was when they told me I was not going to get the 150 of bonus funds that I'd legitimately squeezed out of their weakness and that I'd get no more bonuses from them in future. I was only mildly irritated after taking that dead easy exploit for about 350 per week over a > 3 month stretch. I wasn't surprised by their turning off the easy money faucet and I just took my business elsewhere. More recently a couple of gaffs have made me jump through hoops to withdraw my winnings. But there were indeed good profits made and no account balances have been 'confiscated' yet. I simply try to ensure that I don't risk ever having a substantial balance at risk by frequent withdrawing of funds. Sometimes I find myself with some exposure, but nothing that I'm uncomfortable with. I'm too lazy to ever pursue my 'rights' through whatever overseas regulators might be in place. Life's too short to fight scumbag organised corporations even when they rob me. I guess it's a bit like the risks of those US players who go into 'Indian' casinos or who play cruise liner games knowing that they might be more likely to get stiffed and have little or no redress. But if those gaffs offer attractive comps or exploits, they get the business.

  16. #36
    Of course OnceDear is a profitable online gaming degenerate AP with minimal online loses. No one expected any less of a reply.

    We already have a fairy here telling fairy tales about beating Vegas for millions for 15 years and still going playing bj of all games. The strange thing is he's actually a real fairy. How long have you been beating online casinos?

  17. #37
    blackhole has been banned from this thread.

    I don't need drama from other forums spilling into these threads.

    OnceDear, you are welcome to keep posting here, and I am always glad when another real AP participates in this site.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  18. #38
    Originally Posted by OnceDear View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by OnceDear View Post
    Thanks for your worthless feedback, Rob. Nothing here for you sir, so GFY.

    I must be dumb as a bag of rocks and I'm not even a math wizz.

    I agree that MOST of those juicy sounding bonuses are bait and MOST are viciously -EV

    But that's why this dumb-ass bag of rocks only accept the bonuses where the casino has seriously fcuked up in it's implementation of wagering requirements (E.g. saying that blackjack only contributes 10% to wagering requirements and then actually programming the site to give 100%)

    Even the OP, for all his ignorant stupidity, walked away with a good profit from his bonus offer. Real $$$ in the bank. Maybe he can invest it in one of your special plays and be as wised up as you.
    Why is the OP ignorant and stupid?
    In my opinion he is not. I was pointing out that despite Rob Singer's assertion that "anybody who plays casino games at online casinos is dumb as a bag of rocks." that the OP made a nice profit. Sort of goes along with my thanking Rob for his worthless feedback
    I and anyone else who uses common sense as their cornerstone in gambling, find it extremely hypocritical for any "AP" to give any kind of blessing at all to online casino play.

    The AP gospel clearly identifies taking maximum advantage of any seemingly lucrative opportunity presented to them. They then fine tune this opportunity into expected value, and they play it. And as we've so unadulteratedly seen here, the aggregate amount of their play translates into "accumulated EV" (I call this phantom bucks) which they track as closely as the Clintons track Bill's herpes blisters.

    So for ANY self-proclaimed AP to "take a calculated risk....aka, take a CHANCE" that "it'll all work out in the end" with foreign run online casinos, is the antithesis of sensible gambling. If there's the slightest chance that a game is rigged, that there's hanky panky going on with your account, or that you may not get paid when you request a withdrawal--and knowing that there is absolutely no recourse--then any "edge" you claim to be playing with needs to be seriously reduced or eliminated altogether. Period.

    Epilogue: As difficult as this may be to read, accept or admit, people who resort to online gambling who live in the USA, and who use a bevy of excuses to justify why they do it, do indeed have a significant gambling problem. There is no other explanation.

    I just briefly looked up info about the credibility of online gambling sites, and it isn't good. And don't keep tooting the "sacred" Bovada horn just because they've paid wizard's and other sites for their advertising. None of them are anywhere near as trustworthy as state-run casinos in the US. Any of these places can do whatever they want to their customers at any time and without notice....and there's zero you can do about any of it when they do. Stupid is not a strong enough word.

  19. #39
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    Originally Posted by OnceDear View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post

    Why is the OP ignorant and stupid?
    In my opinion he is not. I was pointing out that despite Rob Singer's assertion that "anybody who plays casino games at online casinos is dumb as a bag of rocks." that the OP made a nice profit. Sort of goes along with my thanking Rob for his worthless feedback
    I and anyone else who uses common sense as their cornerstone in gambling, find it extremely hypocritical for any "AP" to give any kind of blessing at all to online casino play.

    The AP gospel clearly identifies taking maximum advantage of any seemingly lucrative opportunity presented to them. They then fine tune this opportunity into expected value, and they play it. And as we've so unadulteratedly seen here, the aggregate amount of their play translates into "accumulated EV" (I call this phantom bucks) which they track as closely as the Clintons track Bill's herpes blisters.

    So for ANY self-proclaimed AP to "take a calculated risk....aka, take a CHANCE" that "it'll all work out in the end" with foreign run online casinos, is the antithesis of sensible gambling. If there's the slightest chance that a game is rigged, that there's hanky panky going on with your account, or that you may not get paid when you request a withdrawal--and knowing that there is absolutely no recourse--then any "edge" you claim to be playing with needs to be seriously reduced or eliminated altogether. Period.

    Epilogue: As difficult as this may be to read, accept or admit, people who resort to online gambling who live in the USA, and who use a bevy of excuses to justify why they do it, do indeed have a significant gambling problem. There is no other explanation.

    I just briefly looked up info about the credibility of online gambling sites, and it isn't good. And don't keep tooting the "sacred" Bovada horn just because they've paid wizard's and other sites for their advertising. None of them are anywhere near as trustworthy as state-run casinos in the US. Any of these places can do whatever they want to their customers at any time and without notice....and there's zero you can do about any of it when they do. Stupid is not a strong enough word.
    Rob, of course, is absolutely correct. His logic is unassailable. Playing online casinos is almost as bad as playing brick-and-mortar negative expectation games. And at least with the brick-and-mortar negative games, you don't have the added stress of wondering if you'll win or lose. You know, long term, you're gonna lose. That relieves the whole ambiguity thing, which can be very stressful. People using advantage play online can only guess whether they'll be paid, or whether they'll lose. Much better for the psyche and the wallet to play negative brick-and-mortar. It keeps life simple, organized, and predictable. Almost like driving I-40 in an RV.

  20. #40
    Bovada has paid me many hundreds of thousands of dollars over the years.

    They aren't perfect, and I've had my issues with them, but they rightfully have a good reputation for paying people in a timely fashion.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

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