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Thread: OUT with the OLD: IN with the NEW:

  1. #1
    After literally spending years sifting through the bull at BJTF I've arrived at then end with final conclusions.

    1.) Stay away from 6.5 blackjack.

    2.) Stay from shoes.

    3.) Focus on single deck and double deck games with as few at the table as possible.

    4.) Play within casino tolerance. Do not exceed 8% in large bet frequency.

    5.) Do not drive more than an hour to play blackjack in a day. Do not fly or drive 3 hours to a city without at least 5 casinos that offer blackjack.

    6.) Do not play if not at least 60% pen. Do not play with more than 2 players double deck. 1 player single deck.

    CV Data is a useful tool.

    However, your count should equal 48. Hence, 24 on the negative side and 24 on the positive in order to combat today's game with the reduction of pen.

    Why? 48 is the only number you can divide equally by 24,16,12,8,4,and 2. Therefore you can get exact ratios. No more guessing. What is played equals what still remains to be played.

    Consider your base to be 940 BC, 545 PE, 650 IC as your base. Do not go below your base when running sims. Do not give the Ace -1.5 credit. IT proved a top SCORE but you'll find it to be a horrible solution when you test drive it on Verite.

    Move your Ace for insurance purposes. Do not worry about it on the other plays.

    Last but not least - MATTHEW 23.12.

  2. #2
    Sessions are meaningless:

    21forme writes:


    Moses replies: You must have said this 100 times. I get so sick of hearing it. Especially from the blue oyster cult. Game selection is vital. You'd best know what kind of animal you have underneath you and what animal your capable of riding before you ever get in the gate. Otherwise, you'll have a series a bad sessions and may never catch up. If sessions are meaningless? Okay, I'll trade you one of my bad ones for two of your good ones. Geezeous!

  3. #3
    Tarzan writes; If Gronbog can simulate T count, it's safe to say it's little he can't do. There was an immense amount of work on that project. Verifying the values being plugged was as difficult and detail-oriented as it gets, considerably more trouble than actually learning or performing the method, which is from a practical application standpoint the maximum gain and efficiency with the least amount of mental strain, arriving at near perfect play. That's what it takes to outperform HiOpt2ASC and anything short of that isn't going to cut it. I'm not saying what you're doing isn't good or effective, or discourage you in any way, and merely saying it's relatively certain it won't outperform HiOptASC, with this coming from someone who has intimate familiarity with what it takes to outperform HiOpt2ASC. Gronbog doing a simulation for you would give you a definitive answer on your enhancements compared to everything else, much better than just speculation.

    Moses replies; The problem is by the time one actually outperforms the other? You could be dead. Too bad Gronbog has no interest in bottling and selling his program. I'd fly to his location and pay 10 times the amount of CV Data for a Sim customized to fit my game. Think about it G?

    Most of your money made from card counting is derived from your bet spread and optimal betting. Everything after that is just gravy, slight gains that are tiny fractions of a percentage point, worth going for with some, not worth bothering with for others.

    Excellent point. Yet forum rhetoric is all about slight gains that may or may not happen during our lifetime of play.

    The illustrious 18 was devised for maximum gain using the least effort, getting the most of it. The tiniest fraction of a percentage point is a lot if there's a large enough volume of money involved, though, so nothing wrong with trying to maximize your theoretical edge. You can run this out to its greatest extent even, with the most difficult composition dependent index possible for the least gain involved if you want to, where the difference in EV can be as little as .0001 between three possible playing decisions, to either hit, split, or double given the right deck composition, which will have virtually no impact on a simulation, but is still just a hell of a lot of fun if you are hardcore enough. Can you guess the hand?

    Probably not. I could care less about most thresholds on minimum bets. My time is better served discovering true advantages (with a max bet) and then improving my position on same.

  4. #4
    What you saying is true for single deck and double deck games. For shoe games 6-8 deck it is possible to outperform Hi-OPT II with ASC by further improving the betting. I know because I simulated with two dimensional count systems optimizing it for betting. But with single deck and double deck it is different you maybe really need to bring blackjack to near perfect play to outperform Hi-OPT II with ASC.

    Serious Player writes:

    Moses replies: WRONG! If you start pulling that hairy high school crap of playing all indices, they WILL shorten pen and YOU'LL be fucked. I bet your sim didn't allow for that.
    Your bet size is limited and frequency of large bets as well. Unfortunately, we no longer get to play with 1980 conditions. So STOP spewing that crap. I've never got to bet on a sim SCORE yet.

    You HAVE to take what the give you and figure a way to beat them with that. It's just that simple. End of story. Sometimes it's not enough? So don't play.
    Last edited by Moses; 12-27-2018 at 11:23 AM.

  5. #5
    Does anyone actually read this stuff?

    Threads like this remind of visiting a nursing home and observing the oldster in the corner.

  6. #6
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    Does anyone actually read this stuff?

    Threads like this remind of visiting a nursing home and observing the oldster in the corner.
    I read some of it. Just don't have the desire to comment on most of it.

    But I have some good news for you Moses. Your buddy 3 reads this site. Today on another forum he commented that I was preparing to break our bank and that was something I only mentioned here.

    So if you have anything you want to say to him...he is reading. Lol. Actually I suspect "others" from BJTF are reading as well.

  7. #7
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    Does anyone actually read this stuff?

    Threads like this remind of visiting a nursing home and observing the oldster in the corner.
    I realize some are very busy reading 3 or 4 threads and 200 posts about the size of Singers dick. Sorry for the interruption.

    BTW, the "oldster" in the corner may be smarter than you think. They did something right to be the oldster in the corner. It's better than the other option.
    Last edited by Moses; 12-27-2018 at 03:55 PM.

  8. #8
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    Does anyone actually read this stuff?

    Threads like this remind of visiting a nursing home and observing the oldster in the corner.
    I read some of it. Just don't have the desire to comment on most of it.

    But I have some good news for you Moses. Your buddy 3 reads this site. Today on another forum he commented that I was preparing to break our bank and that was something I only mentioned here.

    So if you have anything you want to say to him...he is reading. Lol. Actually I suspect "others" from BJTF are reading as well.
    Yup. That's why I do it. Plus notes to myself. And something to do while working on this endless boring assed study. But I should be done in 10 days or so.

  9. #9
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    Does anyone actually read this stuff?
    .
    ...And you think I care? Actually, RS, Blackhole, Singer, Monet, KJ and quite a few others have been very helpful. Then I view your posts and see some whining little ass hole.

    So I get it you. Typically, you're the type that bitches about how a site is ran, threatens to leave, leaves, comes back again. REPEAT.

    Now, obviously you've been following me which seems a little queer . ZZ is like my own private forum. The people who read are exactly the ones I want to read and offer sound advice. Not bullshit. I "think" you're the guy that had a lot say about me when I was banned and couldn't respond. Kind of a pussy way of dong things. Don't you think? Well, I'm here now and these guys don't ban people for speaking their mind.

    Your "balls" are in your court.

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by Moses View Post
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    Does anyone actually read this stuff?
    .
    ...And you think I care? Actually, RS, Blackhole, Singer, Monet, KJ and quite a few others have been very helpful. Then I view your posts and see some whining little ass hole.

    So I get it you. Typically, you're the type that bitches about how a site is ran, threatens to leave, leaves, comes back again. REPEAT.

    Now, obviously you've been following me which seems a little queer . ZZ is like my own private forum. The people who read are exactly the ones I want to read and offer sound advice. Not bullshit. I "think" you're the guy that had a lot say about me when I was banned and couldn't respond. Kind of a pussy way of dong things. Don't you think? Well, I'm here now and these guys don't ban people for speaking their mind.

    Your "balls" are in your court.
    WTF are you prattling on about now? I know the ball is in my court and I keep it to myself. Go finish having conversations with R2D2 and your other nemesis.

  11. #11
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    WTF are you prattling on about now? I know the ball is in my court and I keep it to myself. Go finish having conversations with R2D2 and your other nemesis.
    Prattling? That's all you've got. Prattling? What is the point of keeping it to yourself? IT's a forum, dipshit. What a fucking wimp. Bring it on or go back on the porch with the rest of your pussy dogs.

  12. #12
    Originally Posted by Moses View Post
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    WTF are you prattling on about now? I know the ball is in my court and I keep it to myself. Go finish having conversations with R2D2 and your other nemesis.
    Prattling? That's all you've got. Prattling? What is the point of keeping it to yourself? IT's a forum, dipshit. What a fucking wimp. Bring it on or go back on the porch with the rest of your pussy dogs.
    Dogs don't like fleas and you are definitely a flea. So I won't involve myself in any further argument with you. You can go start a new thread, on this or any other forum, muttering to yourself and carrying on imaginary conversations about me if you like though

  13. #13
    Typical pussy response. I doubt you need to worry about fleas. It's clear you don't have one hair on your ass. But you think you're in charge of something? Let alone me? Think again dipshit. If Dan has or ZZ moderator has a problem with me then I would assume they would say so. But they have not said a word. I just want a level playing to deal with fuckers like you that like to hide behind and go running to the moderators.

    So go back and hide. Trust me, you really don't want any part of me.

  14. #14
    Originally Posted by Moses View Post
    Typical pussy response. I doubt you need to worry about fleas. It's clear you don't have one hair on your ass. But you think you're in charge of something? Let alone me? Think again dipshit. If Dan has or ZZ moderator has a problem with me then I would assume they would say so. But they have not said a word. I just want a level playing to deal with fuckers like you that like to hide behind and go running to the moderators.

    So go back and hide. Trust me, you really don't want any part of me.
    I spent the earlier part of my life dealing with much more than wannabes like you. You are an insignificant flea. I don't even talk to Dan and could care less. Again with your prattling, no one knows what ZZ is. Don't bother to explain as I'm sure no one cares. I know I don't. So continue on fucking yourself and playing with your imaginary balls in the corner.

  15. #15
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    I spent the earlier part of my life dealing with much more than wannabes like you. You are an insignificant flea. I don't even talk to Dan and could care less. Again with your prattling, no one knows what ZZ is. Don't bother to explain as I'm sure no one cares. I know I don't. So continue on fucking yourself and playing with your imaginary balls in the corner.
    ...And I spent a great deal of my life dealing with mouthy fuckers like you that bit off more than they could chew. I will explain it if I choose to. But right now. I don't. Again you seem to know what everything thinks. How can you do that when you can't even find the front door in your own house? Here is a hint...it's the biggest one.

    In the words of the Mickster. "Don't let you alligator mouth overload your hummingbird ass." I'm not hard to find. Enjoy gumming your banana.

  16. #16
    Originally Posted by Moses View Post
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    I spent the earlier part of my life dealing with much more than wannabes like you. You are an insignificant flea. I don't even talk to Dan and could care less. Again with your prattling, no one knows what ZZ is. Don't bother to explain as I'm sure no one cares. I know I don't. So continue on fucking yourself and playing with your imaginary balls in the corner.
    ...And I spent a great deal of my life dealing with mouthy fuckers like you that bit off more than they could chew. I will explain it if I choose to. But right now. I don't. Again you seem to know what everything thinks. How can you do that when you can't even find the front door in your own house? Here is a hint...it's the biggest one.

    In the words of the Mickster. "Don't let you alligator mouth overload your hummingbird ass." I'm not hard to find. Enjoy gumming your banana.
    No need for further back and forth. My assumptions and observations have been proven correct once again. Enjoy trying to stroke yourself in the corner.

  17. #17
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    No need for further back and forth. My assumptions and observations have been proven correct once again.
    As well are mine. I went back and read many of your posts. It's clear you believe you are better than most. As I suspected, when called out you run and hide like a little girl. One thing you have accomplished though, you'll have me as shadow on any posts you make here. Simply put, I don't like people like you that are self professed and put themselves on a pedestal.


    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    .Enjoy trying to stroke yourself in the corner.
    Huh? You must be a queer.

  18. #18
    Originally Posted by Moses View Post
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    No need for further back and forth. My assumptions and observations have been proven correct once again.
    As well are mine. I went back and read many of your posts. It's clear you believe you are better than most.couldn't be more wrong but people who have inferiority complexes might see it that way As I suspected, when called out you run and hide like a little girl.No hiding, I don't like playing with fleas. One thing you have accomplished though, you'll have me as shadow on any posts you make here.And I could give a fuck if you wanna be just another troll on this site. Simply put, I don't like people like you that are self professed and put themselves on a pedestal. You have a lot of inner turmoil. Maybe you should find help with that.


    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    .Enjoy trying to stroke yourself in the corner.
    Huh? You must be a queer. No but you're an impotent jerk off.
    Last edited by MaxPen; 01-02-2019 at 10:01 AM.

  19. #19
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    You have a lot of inner turmoil. Maybe you should find help with that.
    Kicking your little narrow ass would help.

  20. #20
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    Huh? You must be a queer. No but you're a jerk off.
    Whatever, gay bait. No regular guy makes that statement.

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