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  1. #1
    Dancer gives a security guy who admits he is unaware of slot advantage play tips:
    http://slot-machine-resource.com/pod...if12072018.mp3

  2. #2
    Typical Dancer.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  3. #3
    What was most interesting was the surveillance guy downplaying the concern that players hop on "must hit" slots. He also said their #1 concern was watching for employee theft.

  4. #4
    Technology will eventually totally control whatever the casinos owners are concerned with. Whenever they feel to much cash is leaking through a hole, or AP’s are ruining floppies gambling attitudes slowing down the real income, they have the money to research and plug the hole.

    I say it’s just a matter of time with modern technology until all casino games are monitored for fair play for all.

  5. #5
    Originally Posted by blackhole View Post
    Technology will eventually totally control whatever the casinos owners are concerned with. Whenever they feel to much cash is leaking through a hole, or AP’s are ruining floppies gambling attitudes slowing down the real income, they have the money to research and plug the hole.

    I say it’s just a matter of time with modern technology until all casino games are monitored for fair play for all.
    But if you take away the "dream" don't you also take away the customer? Wouldn't it be sort of like a carnival with eggers begging you to play. Maybe they start giving away teddy bears. It would sure end a lot of jobs. For instance, they put in blackjack machines at Circus Circus with a video of a voluptuous model asking you to play. Bye bye bosses and dealers as well as coacktail waitresses and others. You could shoot a cannon through that place now and not hit anyone.
    Last edited by Moses; 12-21-2018 at 10:15 AM.

  6. #6
    The surveillance guy made it clear that the machines take care of the machines. It makes me think all this talk on forums about casinos going after machine APs was just a lot of BS. As has been pointed out the casinos don't care who wins at the machines.

    This doesn't mean an AP can push a little old lady put of a seat at a must hit machine, but the casinos don't care who hits the must hit jackpot.

  7. #7
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    The surveillance guy made it clear that the machines take care of the machines. It makes me think all this talk on forums about casinos going after machine APs was just a lot of BS. As has been pointed out the casinos don't care who wins at the machines.

    This doesn't mean an AP can push a little old lady put of a seat at a must hit machine, but the casinos don't care who hits the must hit jackpot.
    It's not a lot of BS Alan. Slot APs need to be very careful not to get civilians upset since this is the main source of casino income. The casino ownership/management doesn't want civilians to take their action to a different casino (yes I know - you touched on this point with the little old lady example). Also, there are AP slot teams out there that will deliberately leave small credits on machines as a honeypot to APs who include credit hustling in their repertoire so that the casino security will oust them for credit hustling leaving more vulturable shit for the team that created the honeypot through the elimination of competition. So while the heat is significantly less for machine play than tableplay, it still exists.

  8. #8
    Tableplay after listening to that audio program I'd really like to hear from ANY CASINO MANAGER OR INSIDER that they really give a damn about who wins on their machines.

    In the Dancer audio the surveillance guy said they don't even monitor regular machine play.

    I don't even believe Rob Singer was banned from certain casinos for winning at video poker. I think he got banned for other reasons, and in the end even Rob said he could play at those casinos again.

  9. #9
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Tableplay after listening to that audio program I'd really like to hear from ANY CASINO MANAGER OR INSIDER that they really give a damn about who wins on their machines.

    In the Dancer audio the surveillance guy said they don't even monitor regular machine play.

    I don't even believe Rob Singer was banned from certain casinos for winning at video poker. I think he got banned for other reasons, and in the end even Rob said he could play at those casinos again.
    Alan, in another thread I listed the states with all their casinos I've been to in the last couple of years. At least a couple hundred casinos. I've drawn exactly zero heat in them. It's mostly a Las Vegas thing and specifically Mlife. But I've gotten reports that some spots in California are getting tough. I ran into a friend of mine a couple of days ago and we always talk shop. He flies into Vegas frequently. He told me that if you sit at the same spot in a strip casino and watch for a couple of hours you will see a hundred guys pass through checking the same machines. And I have another story to tell about this friend of mine that is a little more on topic here.

    This goes back about 20 years. He was knocking Turtle Creek in Michigan for about 10K a month. He was in the joint everyday so was well known by casino employee's and even the casino manager who he played golf with on Saturdays. Dancer showed up giving video poker classes. Dancer recognized him as an advantage player and struck up a conversation with him. Asked him a few things about the promotions there. He told Bob a few things. The next day he is playing golf with the casino manager and the manager says to him "Dancer told me I'm in trouble with a guy like you in my backyard." The manager revoked his slot club benefits which was the key to making money in the place.

    Dancer denies the whole thing but my friend sticks to his story to this day.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Tableplay after listening to that audio program I'd really like to hear from ANY CASINO MANAGER OR INSIDER that they really give a damn about who wins on their machines.

    In the Dancer audio the surveillance guy said they don't even monitor regular machine play.

    I don't even believe Rob Singer was banned from certain casinos for winning at video poker. I think he got banned for other reasons, and in the end even Rob said he could play at those casinos again.
    I just wrote that it was because they are bothering other non-AP players, not because they are hitting the jackpots instead of the non-APs. Anyway you will just ignore that part of my previous post and keep harping on the point that a casino manager doesn't care who wins.

  11. #11
    The hustlers have become a big problem at casinos these days.

    I've had several of them hassle me in 2018 -- far more than other years when I've played machines.

    The casinos hate them, because they're not just APs -- they're both annoying the ploppies AND causing the ploppies to lose at a faster rate, making them not want to return.

    The casinos need ploppies for the must hit machines so the meters can get run up from the "almost zero chance of hitting" level to the point where they hit. If everyone was aware of the must hit situation, they would never get played and would sit at the bottom range forever. The last thing the casino wants is for hustlers to push out the players who make this happen.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  12. #12
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    The hustlers have become a big problem at casinos these days.

    I've had several of them hassle me in 2018 -- far more than other years when I've played machines.

    The casinos hate them, because they're not just APs -- they're both annoying the ploppies AND causing the ploppies to lose at a faster rate, making them not want to return.

    The casinos need ploppies for the must hit machines so the meters can get run up from the "almost zero chance of hitting" level to the point where they hit. If everyone was aware of the must hit situation, they would never get played and would sit at the bottom range forever. The last thing the casino wants is for hustlers to push out the players who make this happen.
    I'm not sure what you mean by hustlers. Here we have targets and those who pursue the target. What a pain in the ass! They could eliminate them and not lose a penny. When those bell and whistles go off from a machine, the beggars show up. Then you have AP's suggesting one should tape wads off 100s underneath their clothes. Man...that's just asking for trouble.

    Sometimes the sportsbooks book looks like a damn convalescent hospital.
    Last edited by Moses; 12-21-2018 at 10:17 AM.

  13. #13
    Originally Posted by Moses View Post
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    The hustlers have become a big problem at casinos these days.

    I've had several of them hassle me in 2018 -- far more than other years when I've played machines.

    The casinos hate them, because they're not just APs -- they're both annoying the ploppies AND causing the ploppies to lose at a faster rate, making them not want to return.

    The casinos need ploppies for the must hit machines so the meters can get run up from the "almost zero chance of hitting" level to the point where they hit. If everyone was aware of the must hit situation, they would never get played and would sit at the bottom range forever. The last thing the casino wants is for hustlers to push out the players who make this happen.
    I'm not sure what you mean by hustlers. Here we have targets and those who pursue the target. What a pain in the ass! They could eliminate them and not lose a penny. When those bell and whistles go off from a machine, the beggars show up. Then you have AP's suggesting one should tape wads off 100s underneath their clothes. Man...that's just asking for trouble.

    Sometimes the sportsbooks book looks like a damn convalescent hospital.
    The hustlers like to try to encourage ploppies to run up meters, giving them false info about what a good play it is at the moment. Even worse, they will try to get people off a good machine (or more commonly, a machine in a +EV state) by lying about a "great play" on a different machine, when in reality the different machine is garbage.

    I've had this happen to me multiple times in 2018. Some guy comes up to me and starts ranting about a great opportunity, and how I should go to such-and-such machine and start playing. If I say no, they keep chirping and try to convince me, until I repeatedly tell them, "No, I'm happy playing this right here."

    One guy I was with had a funny line which made a hustler leave. He said, "I'm sorry, but I'm way too high to understand anything you're saying right now."

    The casinos hate this for two reasons.

    First, they don't like the ploppies being hassled, as it bothers them and they won't want to come back.

    Second, they don't want the ploppies being the one always taking the shit ends of the plays. They'd actually prefer the ploppies hit some things when machines are in +EV states, rather than the APs pushing the ploppies off and hitting things themselves. If the ploppies lose too fast, they will feel like playing is hopeless and not come back. Casinos are constantly trying to find that sweet spot where people lose consistently but not so rapidly and surely to where they lose hope. Hustlers pushing ploppies off machines in the best state screws that up, and the ploppies are going to be taking the raw end of it much more than the casino wants, where the APs get the sweet parts.

    In blackjack terms, think if you could convince ploppies to play only during negative counts, and then to sit out for you during highly positive counts, at which point you'd run the shoe yourself. Even if you were just flat betting, the casinos would hate this.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  14. #14
    Dan how were you hassled?

  15. #15
    Mickeycrimm there will always be isolated stories of someone getting heat in casinos. I was once told I could not shoot dice at both MGM and NYNY because they thought I had real dice influencing skills (I did not). At Bellagio I got into a heated argument with a crew about my dice not bouncing off the back wall at least six inches (another false accusation and dispute).

    I just don't believe casinos give a damn about who wins at machine play but I understand casinos don't want ruffians disturbing other patrons.

  16. #16
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Mickeycrimm there will always be isolated stories of someone getting heat in casinos. I was once told I could not shoot dice at both MGM and NYNY because they thought I had real dice influencing skills (I did not). At Bellagio I got into a heated argument with a crew about my dice not bouncing off the back wall at least six inches (another false accusation and dispute).

    I just don't believe casinos give a damn about who wins at machine play but I understand casinos don't want ruffians disturbing other patrons.
    There is another part to the story, Alan. Some AP's are running multiple cards, especially on the 5K and 10K must hits. Slot games get a lot more freeplay than video poker. So some of these guys are triple dipping and quadrupledipping the freeplay. There's major competition on the 5K and 10K's because of it. A lone wolf like me thats not willing to do that can't compete with these guys because they will play way lower numbers than I will knowing they have all that freeplay rolling in.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  17. #17
    Question about using multiple cards:

    By dividing your play among multiple cards instead of putting all play on one card, are you getting more total free play?

  18. #18
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Question about using multiple cards:

    By dividing your play among multiple cards instead of putting all play on one card, are you getting more total free play?
    Absolutely. You will get a lot more freeplay by running a 10K wager on three cards than running a 30K wager on one card. Monet knows a lot about this but he doesn't like you guys anymore. Don't piss people off then ask them for information.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  19. #19
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Absolutely. You will get a lot more freeplay by running a 10K wager on three cards than running a 30K wager on one card. Monet knows a lot about this but he doesn't like you guys anymore. Don't piss people off then ask them for information.
    I came online with the intention to help everyone online only or in person.
    I did not agree with this notion of nobody is going to say anything about plays on forums.
    I naturally have an abrasive personality so that didn't help matters in the long run for me with forums.
    I posted up plenty of current information at the time.
    A basic blueprint to get someone started who lives in Vegas and is interested is such matters.
    Players like Boz will say garbage like I am just setting people up to knock them down.
    Not even close to the truth. Even his pals like AW and BBB and others met me in person.
    I paid all of their expenses and even explained some current plays.
    I gave thousands of comp away and even some of my own cash.
    Took time out of my day just because.
    Most of them didn't like me because I was unwilling to team up.
    The real reason most of them don't like me is because I am completely unwilling to sponsor anyone.
    Many players are looking for someone to put them to work or bankroll some play.
    I am not that guy.

    Anyways... no big deal though. I am not posting any information about any plays anymore.
    I posted enough.
    Many of the APs are happy that I am not posting free information anymore.
    Many Non-APs are happy that I am not posting much anymore because they just don't like me in general.

    Good post though Mickeycrimm...well said.
    Someone actually posted that one day the Casino will be Fair Play for all involved LOL... "Fair Play."

    The truth is the hustlers have been annoying players for over 60 years in Vegas.
    When the clubs first started players cards the hustlers were all over the place begging people to use their cards.
    Dan acts like 2018 is the worst year but it has always been an issue and isn't going anywhere.
    Especially since they let them beg and sleep right on the sidewalk next to the Casino now.

  20. #20
    Originally Posted by monet View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Absolutely. You will get a lot more freeplay by running a 10K wager on three cards than running a 30K wager on one card. Monet knows a lot about this but he doesn't like you guys anymore. Don't piss people off then ask them for information.
    I came online with the intention to help everyone online only or in person.
    I did not agree with this notion of nobody is going to say anything about plays on forums.
    I naturally have an abrasive personality so that didn't help matters in the long run for me with forums.
    I posted up plenty of current information at the time.
    A basic blueprint to get someone started who lives in Vegas and is interested is such matters.
    Players like Boz will say garbage like I am just setting people up to knock them down.
    Not even close to the truth. Even his pals like AW and BBB and others met me in person.
    I paid all of their expenses and even explained some current plays.
    I gave thousands of comp away and even some of my own cash.
    Took time out of my day just because.
    Most of them didn't like me because I was unwilling to team up.
    The real reason most of them don't like me is because I am completely unwilling to sponsor anyone.
    Many players are looking for someone to put them to work or bankroll some play.
    I am not that guy.

    Anyways... no big deal though. I am not posting any information about any plays anymore.
    I posted enough.
    Many of the APs are happy that I am not posting free information anymore.
    Many Non-APs are happy that I am not posting much anymore because they just don't like me in general.

    Good post though Mickeycrimm...well said.
    Someone actually posted that one day the Casino will be Fair Play for all involved LOL... "Fair Play."

    The truth is the hustlers have been annoying players for over 60 years in Vegas.
    When the clubs first started players cards the hustlers were all over the place begging people to use their cards.
    Dan acts like 2018 is the worst year but it has always been an issue and isn't going anywhere.
    Especially since they let them beg and sleep right on the sidewalk next to the Casino now.
    We don’t get along but I’ll give credit where it’s due. This is a helluva good honest post. Thanks Monet for posting it. It’s a honest assessment of the situation with facts.

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