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Thread: About to go to gaming regarding confiscated points after (unfair) ban from Vegas casino -- advice?

  1. #21
    RS_, I believe it is the law in Nevada that any accrued points are to be cashed out in the case a player is banned from the casino, unless that ban was for cheating. (Mine was not.)

    Slyfox, I agree that going to Gaming will piss off the casino and probably crush what little chance I have left of getting unbanned.

    However, I'm at the point where I think the chance of getting this reversed is so low that I might as well just go for the money at this point.

    I don't think writing letters will help. I've written e-mails to several parties directly involved in the decision, and they outright ignore me.

    I've also been promised several phone calls, only one of which materialized. That phone call was promising because I was told they would re-investigate and get back to me. However, they never re-investigated, never called me back, and they told the employee who followed up on it for me, "We talked to Todd. He fully understood why we banned him. He didn't agree with it, but he understood and accepted it", which is NOT AT ALL how the phone call went. The guy clearly heard that I flatly denied everything and he promised to re-investigate to make sure their info was correct, but then they decided not to for whatever reason.

    I'm guessing that they realize there's a good chance I'm correct, and that this ban was erroneous, but they don't want to admit it because that would be an admission of someone's incompetence, and nobody in casino security/investigations wants to look incompetent.

    Suffice to say that I'm going to blow this story up everywhere I can, once I have to take this to Gaming. At that point, I will name names and give the full details.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  2. #22
    Dan you're now telling us that casino/hotel personnel have lied and made false representations. Don't you think they'll say the same to Gaming? It's time for you to state your case.

  3. #23
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Dan you're now telling us that casino/hotel personnel have lied and made false representations. Don't you think they'll say the same to Gaming? It's time for you to state your case.
    They lied to me about calling me back and re-investigating, and then lied internally to another employee that I understood and was fine with everything.

    But none of that is legally actionable.

    Bottom line is they have every right to ban me if they feel like it.

    I was just wondering if anyone had any suggestions what to do next, and if anyone else has experience going to Gaming to recover confiscated points.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  4. #24
    Frankly Dan if Gaming even bothers to send them a letter they'll just say they were justified and then Gaming will tell you to resolve your dispute on your own. You've already told us this is a non gaming dispute. I doubt Gaming will care about your points. You said Gaming has jurisdiction over points, so:

    1. Quote where Gaming has jurisdiction over points
    2. Show where Gaming would be involved in a non gaming area, despite your points

  5. #25
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Frankly Dan if Gaming even bothers to send them a letter they'll just say they were justified and then Gaming will tell you to resolve your dispute on your own. You've already told us this is a non gaming dispute. I doubt Gaming will care about your points. You said Gaming has jurisdiction over points, so:

    1. Quote where Gaming has jurisdiction over points
    2. Show where Gaming would be involved in a non gaming area, despite your points
    Bob Dancer just had a blog about this.

    He went to Gaming because he got banned from a casino and couldn't redeem his points.

    Prior to his Gaming complaint, they offered to redeem them at half value, because the points only had half cash value, but full freeplay value.

    Dancer complained that he would have used the freeplay and not taken the cash at 0.50 on the dollar.

    He lost the Gaming dispute, but only because they offered him the same cash they would have offered anyone else who wasn't banned.

    In my case, I was offered zero.

    I do believe I'm due something.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  6. #26
    Is your case the same as Dancer's? Were you banned for the same reason as Dancer?

  7. #27
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Is your case the same as Dancer's? Were you banned for the same reason as Dancer?
    No, I already explained. Mine was in Vegas, his was in Henderson.

    Mine was non-gaming related, his was because he was APing a certain machine.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  8. #28
    Exactly, Dan. Your case is not his case. And frankly no one knows the details of your case so no one can tell you what to do. So why did you even start this thread if you won't even say what the problem was even if you don't name the casino?

  9. #29
    Dan: it seems like you are getting very worked up about this issue
    is it worth getting worked up about?

    I have no doubt that you were untreated unfairly
    but could you change your outlook so that it doesn't torment you while you contest it?

    I'm currently getting screwed by a giant organization - totally unfair - a much bigger issue than what you're facing
    I'm challenging their ruling

    at first I was boiling mad
    but I've calmed down and am determined that this thing doesn't take over my life

    it helped me to look at the thing from a worst case scenario standpoint
    please don't feed the trolls

  10. #30
    Originally Posted by Half Smoke View Post
    Dan: it seems like you are getting very worked up about this issue
    is it worth getting worked up about?

    I have no doubt that you were untreated unfairly
    but could you change your outlook so that it doesn't torment you while you contest it?

    I'm currently getting screwed by a giant organization - totally unfair - a much bigger issue than what you're facing
    I'm challenging their ruling

    at first I was boiling mad
    but I've calmed down and am determined that this thing doesn't take over my life

    it helped me to look at the thing from a worst case scenario standpoint
    Mountain out of a Molehill.
    Dan's OP reminds me of a ZK rant.

    I have dealt with things in the Casino that were unfair or incorrect.
    Perhaps, not the same as this situation.
    I learned to just move on.
    Figure something else out.

    Did you know far worse injustices exist?
    In many states you can call the police.
    File a report and make up whatever story you like against someone you do not like.
    The State will take over and file charges.
    They don't care if it was true or not.
    They will put it through the system.
    It will go to pre-trial conference no matter what.
    The office of the DA will push it to trial and drop the charges right before the trial starts or jury selection starts.
    This can cost the accused from 4k to 20k in Attorney Fees.
    You could sue the individual for the fees or slander or some other things but...
    The case is near impossible to win to get any sort of reimbursement.
    This happens to people every day.
    Many times it happens to people who weren't even in the state of the alleged incident.
    God Bless America!

    Could be much worse.
    You could be starving in China or Africa.
    So many other situations in the world that make Dan's situation look insignificant.
    Did you know little children are sold into Human Trafficking everyday?

    Gender and age profile of victims detected globally: 59% Women - 14% Men - 17% Girls and 10% were Boys.

    600,000 to 800,000 women, children and men bought and sold across international borders every year and exploited for forced labor or commercial sex (U.S. Government)
    When internal trafficking victims are added to the estimates, the number of victims annually is in the range of 2 to 4 million
    50% of those victims are estimated to be children
    It is estimated that 76 percent of transactions for sex with underage girls start on the Internet
    2 million children are subjected to prostitution in the global commercial sex trade (UNICEF)
    There are 20.9 Million victims of Trafficking World wide as of 2012
    1.5 Million victims in the United States
    This was in 2012... 7 years ago!

    The standard price for sex at a brothel in the U.S. is $30.
    Typically, trafficked children see 25-48 customers a day.
    They work up to 12 hours a day, every day of the week;
    every year, a pimp earns between $150,000 and $200,000 per child.

    The last statistic I read about the Catholic Church is that 6% of Priests will molest a child...
    Have a wonderful day of celebration on December 25th or January 1st though!!
    Last edited by monet; 12-24-2018 at 02:28 PM.

  11. #31
    I just hope that Dan's false identification issue isn't over taking too many bottles of water from the VIP check in.

  12. #32
    Do you have an airtight alibi? For instance, proving you were actually eating at the buffet and not playing a game when the incident happened? In the news there was a woman accused of being a house burglar. She was shocked since she wasn't a thief. Luckily for her, she was at a cousin's party at the time of the burglary....In another County and people had taken pictures of her at the party. Cops were like,"The house was burglarized at 7:30 at night. At 7:30, the suspect was actually 50 miles away at a party in another County according to these pictures. We have decided to release the suspect due to her airtight alibi." So Dan, find your "Party," that will prove you aren't a suspect.

  13. #33
    Responses here are getting dumb.

    I never said I was "worked up" about it. I am annoyed that I can't go to a certain major strip casino anymore, due to something I didn't even do.

    Alan, the exact details are immaterial here. I'm asking for exact advice as to what to do in these situations where you're banned from a casino for something you didn't do, and the ones in charge of determining that are refusing to talk to you further. Regarding Bob Dancer, while our ban reasons were different, that's also immaterial. You are either entitled to your points or you're not, and Dancer wrote a whole article about how you ARE entitled to earned points. I tend to believe him, though I don't have any experience in this area yet.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  14. #34
    Dan get a lawyer. What else can anyone say?
    How can anyone comment without knowing what happened?
    A lawyer will talk to you in confidence.
    If you continue here asking for advice without letting anyone know what happened you're just being a drama queen.
    I'm done.

  15. #35
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Dan get a lawyer. What else can anyone say?
    How can anyone comment without knowing what happened?
    A lawyer will talk to you in confidence.
    If you continue here asking for advice without letting anyone know what happened you're just being a drama queen.
    I'm done.
    You aren't reading anything I'm writing.

    I think this is why people get so frustrated with you here. Sometimes you just abandon logic and fire off answers to people without thinking. This is one of those times.

    Once again:

    - A lawyer cannot help me because the casino can ban me for any reason at any time. If this is going to get resolved, it will be the casino itself deciding to reverse it.

    - I'm not asking for people to comment about what happened. I'm asking two specific questions (see my last post) which do not require specific knowledge of the situation to answer.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  16. #36
    1) Is there anything further I can do at this point, or am I completely fucked regarding reversing the ban? Again, this ban was NOT due to AP play, and it was due to some error where they believe I did something that I didn't. I just need someone willing to take a short time to investigate a little further.

    The odds are way against you but you could get things reversed.
    Depends on how much you work on it and go talk to people with some power.
    Depends on what you did and how they value your play.
    Depends on if you have any connections which I don't think you do for this.
    This isn't Poker no matter how much you want it to be.
    You and I could do the same thing and the Casino bans me and not you.
    They are not very black and white or unilateral in decision making.
    I have seen the Casino Ban players, take their points and no mail them and let them back in 6 months later many times.
    However, Vegas is getting statistic/computer happy and very serious about banning Advantage or Advantage Type of Players.

    Aren't you a poker wiz or a winning poker player?
    Somewhat Famous?
    They don't like them as much anymore either.
    Especially if they are beating them on the Casino Floor.

    2) Do any of you have experience going to gaming and claiming points which were confiscated after a ban?

    Why call gaming and get more heat on you?
    ZK calls gaming all the time and it can not help him fly under the radar.

    I try hard not to let my points build up.
    When I play something and hammer it I get my points out ASAP.
    Many times I take the points out while I am playing.
    I have let comp get out of control but never points that can be converted to FP or Cash.
    I try not to let the Comp build up anymore either.
    I will raid the gift shop or get massive to go orders to wipe out my comp.
    If you let your points build up that is your fault for not getting them out.
    With Machine Play you never know what they are going to do with your points.
    Better to get them out... only maniacs let them build up to dollar amounts that would bother you if they closed your account.
    Last edited by monet; 12-24-2018 at 07:11 PM.

  17. #37
    Dan no one can answer your question about reversing your ban unless they know why you were banned.

    So why were you banned?

    If they think it was you who stole bottles of water from the VIP check in you might get the ban reversed.

    But if they think it was you who molested a cocktail waitress you don't stand a chance.

    You keep saying why you got banned doesn't matter. Well you got banned and frankly I don't think it was over bottles of water. And if it wasn't about card counting or AP play it seems to me your head is in the sand and you've got a problem.

  18. #38
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Dan no one can answer your question about reversing your ban unless they know why you were banned.

    So why were you banned?

    If they think it was you who stole bottles of water from the VIP check in you might get the ban reversed.

    But if they think it was you who molested a cocktail waitress you don't stand a chance.

    You keep saying why you got banned doesn't matter. Well you got banned and frankly I don't think it was over bottles of water. And if it wasn't about card counting or AP play it seems to me your head is in the sand and you've got a problem.
    IIRC he said he thinks it was mistaken identity. Perhaps they banned someone that had a similar name and birth-date, or there was someone that looked like him.

  19. #39
    Casino's are a business. They can deny service to anyone.

    I don't understand why you can not state what they accuse you of doing if you did not do it?

  20. #40
    Originally Posted by BadBeet View Post
    Casino's are a business. They can deny service to anyone.

    I don't understand why you can not state what they accuse you of doing if you did not do it?
    He probably has a clause saying something like,"Don't tell anyone the specifics, or we will sue you!"

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