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Thread: About to go to gaming regarding confiscated points after (unfair) ban from Vegas casino -- advice?

  1. #61
    Originally Posted by BadBeet View Post
    I guess we forget that taking too much TP and soaps from the room attendants carts to add to ones EV is frowned upon.

    Still curious as to what they claim he did.
    I am only interested in how many points he lost?
    Must be more than Dancer!?
    I think Dancer only lost 1500 in Free Play or Cash Back which is a lot but not enough for me to get crazy about.
    Didn't Dancer let the money stay on his card for a few weeks?
    Mistake Number One... Never let your Free Play or Cash Back build up without taking it out ASAP!
    I once had 2200 in Comp taken away from myself.
    I didn't even bother with it.
    I just never went back in that Casino for over 2 years now.
    Eventually I will go back and get reinstated but I could care less about the points or comp or cash back.
    That was my fault for letting it sit on the account... I know better.
    Comp Glitches happen every year or so... I'll find another.

    Remember when Mission146 went to court about getting barred LOL?

    https://wizardofvegas.com/articles/been-backed-off/

    The Judge yelled at him many times stating that he was Guilty, Guilty, Guilty!!
    That kind of crazy cracks me up!

  2. #62
    Haha... wow I never saw that before thanks!

    I dont give my card to others to play. Everytime I put it on a host comes and bugs me...

  3. #63
    Originally Posted by BadBeet View Post
    Haha... wow I never saw that before thanks!

    I dont give my card to others to play. Everytime I put it on a host comes and bugs me...
    You can't fight City Hall.
    Katy Bar the Door!

  4. #64
    Over on Poker Fraud Alert Dan said he would reveal everything once he files his complaint with Gaming.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  5. #65
    I understand everyone's curiosity about this. However, I have my reasons for not revealing details until the Gaming case is filed.

    To answer a few questions...

    No, there's no way it was something I did and forgot about. After a number of phone calls, I got someone to tell me the reason I was banned. It was something I did not do, and could not have accidentally done, either.

    I'll give you a hypothetical example.

    Let's say you were banned from a casino for allegedly pulling down your pants and shitting on the casino floor.

    However, you know for a fact that you never did this, and you don't drink or do drugs, so you know you didn't do it while in an inebriated state.

    You tell the casino, "I absolutely never did this -- here or anywhere. Can you please check the camera again and you'll see it wasn't me?"

    The investigator agrees to recheck everything and get back to you. At this point, you're confident your name will be cleared once they look again and see it wasn't you who did the floor shitting. But they never call you back, and when you press the matter further, they won't answer you.

    That's basically what's happening to me here, except it doesn't involve an accusation of shitting on the floor. However, the real accusation is something equally crazy which I never would have done, and which could easily be disproven if they check their evidence.


    Regarding whether I could claim any form of discrimination, I couldn't. I'm a heterosexual white male in my mid-40s. The only "minority" class I belong to is being Jewish, but there's no way that's going to fly as a reason I was banned. To show this, I would have to prove that other Jews were unfairly banned, which the casino could easily counter. There was no discrimination here, and I couldn't frame it as such.

    I do not believe an attorney could help me here. Even if the ban was a case of mistaken identity (which I still think it is), this was the casino's own internal decision to ban me. They have not published nor shared these allegations with anyone else, to my knowledge. Furthermore, I was never detained, nor did I even have contact with security. I heard about the ban over the phone when I tried to make a reservation.

    Regarding the points, they aren't worth as much as Dancer's $1200. However, it's the principle of the matter. I waited to file a gaming complaint until I could deal with the casino in a calm, reasonable fashion and try to resolve it among ourselves. They shut me down and have put me on ignore mode. Now I have no choice but to pursue this with Gaming to get the points owed to me.

    I agree with Dancer's general view on the matter. You try to resolve it with the casino first, but if your ban remains permanent, at that point you go to Gaming and claim what's rightfully yours.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  6. #66
    It is absolutely absurd that a case of mistaken identity can't be resolved. The Nevada Gaming Commission is not likely to get involved because you said gaming was not involved. I don't think they would be involved in a hotel matter.

    You have two choices as I see it. Get a lawyer involved who will bring a libel suit or go 100% public and ask for public support.

    If it really is a case of mistaken identity I would call their management as the producer and host of my TV show. And since it is MY show I could put your story on TV.

  7. #67
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I understand everyone's curiosity about this. However, I have my reasons for not revealing details until the Gaming case is filed.

    To answer a few questions...

    No, there's no way it was something I did and forgot about. After a number of phone calls, I got someone to tell me the reason I was banned. It was something I did not do, and could not have accidentally done, either.

    I'll give you a hypothetical example.

    Let's say you were banned from a casino for allegedly pulling down your pants and shitting on the casino floor.

    However, you know for a fact that you never did this, and you don't drink or do drugs, so you know you didn't do it while in an inebriated state.

    You tell the casino, "I absolutely never did this -- here or anywhere. Can you please check the camera again and you'll see it wasn't me?"

    The investigator agrees to recheck everything and get back to you. At this point, you're confident your name will be cleared once they look again and see it wasn't you who did the floor shitting. But they never call you back, and when you press the matter further, they won't answer you.

    That's basically what's happening to me here, except it doesn't involve an accusation of shitting on the floor. However, the real accusation is something equally crazy which I never would have done, and which could easily be disproven if they check their evidence.


    Regarding whether I could claim any form of discrimination, I couldn't. I'm a heterosexual white male in my mid-40s. The only "minority" class I belong to is being Jewish, but there's no way that's going to fly as a reason I was banned. To show this, I would have to prove that other Jews were unfairly banned, which the casino could easily counter. There was no discrimination here, and I couldn't frame it as such.

    I do not believe an attorney could help me here. Even if the ban was a case of mistaken identity (which I still think it is), this was the casino's own internal decision to ban me. They have not published nor shared these allegations with anyone else, to my knowledge. Furthermore, I was never detained, nor did I even have contact with security. I heard about the ban over the phone when I tried to make a reservation.

    Regarding the points, they aren't worth as much as Dancer's $1200. However, it's the principle of the matter. I waited to file a gaming complaint until I could deal with the casino in a calm, reasonable fashion and try to resolve it among ourselves. They shut me down and have put me on ignore mode. Now I have no choice but to pursue this with Gaming to get the points owed to me.

    I agree with Dancer's general view on the matter. You try to resolve it with the casino first, but if your ban remains permanent, at that point you go to Gaming and claim what's rightfully yours.
    Let me guess. They think you stole someone's TITO?

  8. #68
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I understand everyone's curiosity about this. However, I have my reasons for not revealing details until the Gaming case is filed.

    To answer a few questions...

    No, there's no way it was something I did and forgot about. After a number of phone calls, I got someone to tell me the reason I was banned. It was something I did not do, and could not have accidentally done, either.

    I'll give you a hypothetical example.

    Let's say you were banned from a casino for allegedly pulling down your pants and shitting on the casino floor.

    However, you know for a fact that you never did this, and you don't drink or do drugs, so you know you didn't do it while in an inebriated state.

    You tell the casino, "I absolutely never did this -- here or anywhere. Can you please check the camera again and you'll see it wasn't me?"

    The investigator agrees to recheck everything and get back to you. At this point, you're confident your name will be cleared once they look again and see it wasn't you who did the floor shitting. But they never call you back, and when you press the matter further, they won't answer you.

    That's basically what's happening to me here, except it doesn't involve an accusation of shitting on the floor. However, the real accusation is something equally crazy which I never would have done, and which could easily be disproven if they check their evidence.


    Regarding whether I could claim any form of discrimination, I couldn't. I'm a heterosexual white male in my mid-40s. The only "minority" class I belong to is being Jewish, but there's no way that's going to fly as a reason I was banned. To show this, I would have to prove that other Jews were unfairly banned, which the casino could easily counter. There was no discrimination here, and I couldn't frame it as such.

    I do not believe an attorney could help me here. Even if the ban was a case of mistaken identity (which I still think it is), this was the casino's own internal decision to ban me. They have not published nor shared these allegations with anyone else, to my knowledge. Furthermore, I was never detained, nor did I even have contact with security. I heard about the ban over the phone when I tried to make a reservation.

    Regarding the points, they aren't worth as much as Dancer's $1200. However, it's the principle of the matter. I waited to file a gaming complaint until I could deal with the casino in a calm, reasonable fashion and try to resolve it among ourselves. They shut me down and have put me on ignore mode. Now I have no choice but to pursue this with Gaming to get the points owed to me.

    I agree with Dancer's general view on the matter. You try to resolve it with the casino first, but if your ban remains permanent, at that point you go to Gaming and claim what's rightfully yours.
    Have you formally requested your points in the form of a letter or verbally. I would document this first before you go to gaming. Non gaming banning and denial of points are two asaparate issues.

  9. #69
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    ... what's rightfully yours.
    The older one gets the more one laughs at this line of thinking.
    I'm gonna get those bastards! Take back what is rightfully mine.
    80,000 points which translates to 800 dollars!
    Justice will prevail!

    Remember Abraham and Lots quarrel about "what is rightfully mine?"
    Didn't work out so great for Lot.
    He ended up in a Cave having his two daughters get him drunk and force incest on him.
    Of course after Fire and Brimstone destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah.
    To make matters worse his wife turned into a pillar of salt!
    Sarah shouldn't of been looking back to what was rightfully hers!

    Abraham had his problems as well screwing around with his handmaid.

    "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated." - Jehovah -
    This is from the womb mind you... talk about bad odds!

    It is fun to get older and look back and see what we wasted our time on.
    Could of spent a few more days or hours helping someone instead of fighting the power.
    I could continue but why bother... it is all in vain.
    See you all soon in the grave where all these matters will not matter.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by monet; 12-28-2018 at 08:59 PM.

  10. #70
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    It is absolutely absurd that a case of mistaken identity can't be resolved. The Nevada Gaming Commission is not likely to get involved because you said gaming was not involved. I don't think they would be involved in a hotel matter.

    You have two choices as I see it. Get a lawyer involved who will bring a libel suit or go 100% public and ask for public support.

    If it really is a case of mistaken identity I would call their management as the producer and host of my TV show. And since it is MY show I could put your story on TV.
    I don't know if it's mistaken identity. That's my guess. They accused me of something I absolutely didn't do, and then promised to re-investigate. Then they refused to talk to me again, and told another employee that the matter was closed, and that I "understood everything" (which was totally false, and not at all the way our last conversation ended).

    There is no libel here. Again, there have been no public statements against me. Internal false accusations do not constitute libel. I have no damages aside from not being able to enter their casino!

    The alleged incident did not involve gaming. However, the NGC will be involved because they illegally confiscated my points. Why don't you understand that?

    I will be glad to appear on your TV show about this once I make the details public.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  11. #71
    Originally Posted by jpfromla View Post
    Have you formally requested your points in the form of a letter or verbally. I would document this first before you go to gaming. Non gaming banning and denial of points are two asaparate issues.
    I'm going to do this prior to going to Gaming. I think there's a high chance they will refuse to give me the points, but yes, you're correct that I need to do this and document it prior to making a Gaming complaint.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  12. #72
    Dan my guess is that if they refuse to reinvestigate you either pissed them off or they are convinced you are in the wrong. In the spirit of this forum I think this really is a coin flip but heads you lost and tails you lost.

    Now the question is how much damage has been done. So several questions:

    How much money is involved? Please let it be a cash value of at least $1,000. If you tell us you're going to file a claim for $100 you're wasting everyone's time.

    What casino is it? Is it a casino you need to go to again because of its proximity to the WSOP? Or is it some small casino you visited for one night because you didn't want to burn your comps somewhere else?

    Now you're saying it may not actually be mistaken identity. Well get your story straight. If you can't get it straight here you're not going to get it straight with a formal legal complaint.

    Are you on a fishing expedition here looking for the "right circumstances" for your nebulous claim?

    Details Dan or drop it. Waffling has no credibility.

  13. #73
    I dont think they need to give you a reason. They are not obligated to do so just as they are not obligated to let everyone gamble or shit on the floor in their establishment.

    Now, if you palmed a $100 chip from a roulette game with your mates while drunk and it fell into your girly pants, then I understand not wanting to tell.

  14. #74
    Originally Posted by BadBeet View Post
    Is there something in the players club rules stating that you must use your players card if you have one?
    Badbeet, I think at virtually all casinos (that have a player's club) you are not required to use your card if you have one. If any forum members know of exceptions to this I would be very appreciative of links to such rules.

  15. #75
    Originally Posted by tableplay View Post
    Originally Posted by BadBeet View Post
    Is there something in the players club rules stating that you must use your players card if you have one?
    Badbeet, I think at virtually all casinos (that have a player's club) you are not required to use your card if you have one. If any forum members know of exceptions to this I would be very appreciative of links to such rules.
    I've heard stories of in Black Jack pits them requiring a card or ID before taking action...

  16. #76
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Tableplay, isn't it strange how when I criticized Dan for allowing the penis thread to continue, and how I criticized Dan for allowing Rob to post that crap about blow jobs from other's wives, daughters and mothers, that I am criticized as the bad guy?
    I am being critical of your suggestion that Dan should somehow be an expert in navigating the complexity of casino grievances just because he is an expert live poker player, not of you personally. Also, Monet proved that useful advice can be given despite a lack of specifics (again just go back and read Monet's post if you don't believe me) when you stated that it was impossible to do so without specifics. Again I am not being critical of you or calling you out as a "bad guy" - just this statement itself where you threw your hands up in the air and said it was impossible to give advice when there was some ambiguity involved.

    Personally, I think it all boils down to excuses by the casino because Dan is considered an advantage player by this casino's management - they just don't want to admit that they don't want to take action from successful players.

  17. #77
    Originally Posted by BadBeet View Post
    Originally Posted by tableplay View Post
    Originally Posted by BadBeet View Post
    Is there something in the players club rules stating that you must use your players card if you have one?
    Badbeet, I think at virtually all casinos (that have a player's club) you are not required to use your card if you have one. If any forum members know of exceptions to this I would be very appreciative of links to such rules.
    I've heard stories of in Black Jack pits them requiring a card or ID before taking action...
    That sounds reasonable, however that is a discretionary decision by the pit boss, rather than a formal player club's rule probably.

  18. #78
    Dan has said this has nothing to do with casino play or being an AP. Now, how can anyone give any opinion on what Dan should do?

    No chips were palmed. Players card is a non issue. Even mistaken identity is now questionable. Even the amount of money involved is unknown.

    Is this a joke?

  19. #79

  20. #80
    Made an "informational" call to Gaming tonight. I did not file any complaints yet, but rather just wanted to figure out what I needed to do from this point forward.

    I was told to do the following:

    1) On a non-holiday weekday from 8am-5pm, call the casino and ask for the highest person I'm allowed to talk to in the marketing department. Formally request the redemption of the points.

    2a) If they agree to redeem the points at a level I find satisfactory, then go ahead and do so, and the matter is done.

    2b) If they refuse to redeem the points (most likely), then get that person's full name, and immediately call Gaming.

    3) Gaming will immediately come down and meet me and take a report. Then they will go down to the casino and question the person I spoke to.

    4) If Gaming determines that I am owed money for the points, they will pressure the casino to pay me, and will start an investigation if necessary.

    It was confirmed that the casino can ban me at any time for any reason, even if the reason is erroneous or I was wrongfully blamed for someone else's violation.

    However, it was also confirmed that in "most cases", if I earned points and am not allowed to redeem them, the casino must pay me the cash equivalent value for them.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

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