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Thread: casino cheating

  1. #81
    Alan, you don't believe it is possible for a dealer to cheat and manipulate the cards (despite that there is a long history of it), and yet you do believe you saw 18 y.o.'s in a row AND that Robert Argentino made a million dollars over 10 years playing -EV video poker?


    Something VERY wrong with this picture Alan. Something VERY wrong with your thought process.

    So let's see....67 years old right? Born about '52? So that puts you at 17 in 69? You don't seem the type but I gotta ask....did you do a lot of drugs at Woodstock that altered you brain function or something? Get a hold of some bad "shrooms"?

  2. #82
    Originally Posted by monet View Post
    I do believe that Casino dealer cheating is rare these days but I am sure it still happens.
    Ok you nailed it with this statement. Like the guy who returns a missed field goal for a touchdown. Or when someone tells you that they are the best in the world at something and they actually are.

  3. #83
    1) Do not let dealers look into the wheel when they set and spin the ball.
    If they cannot set up the same way with the same starting point every spin, they will have a much tougher time hitting their target.

    2) Have the dealers change the speed of the rotor before spinning, and even change the speed of their spins.
    I'm not saying every spin but certainly a few times during each individual tour at the wheel.

    3) Change the roulette balls.
    Roulette balls come in different sizes and each size has a different feel in the dealer's hand.
    Therefore, by changing the balls you are making the dealer who is looking to control the spin less comfortable.


    Managing Partner
    Nilgiri Gaming LLP

    Quote:


    1. When I started out in the business I was a french roulette dealer, - yep, it was that long ago.
    I tried for two years to spin sections and was no nearer being able to place the ball where I wanted than when I started.
    After two years I gave up trying.

    2. If the three game protection points mentioned in the article are not already part of standard roulette procedure then the management should have been fired.
    No dealer is EVER allowed to look in the wheel when he spins, and the wheel is ALWAYS reversed every spin.

    3. Any dealer, or manager for that matter, who has apparently developed an ability to drop a ball in a chosen section needs to be fired immediately.
    They are soon going to work out that they can make far more money spinning sections for their friends than collecting their regular pay check from the casino.

    4. It would be interesting to know what wheels the casino uses.

    5. There are two main types of procedure, technical procedures (how you cut chips, push stacks etc), and security procedures.
    Technical procedures can vary from casino to casino, but security procedures are INVIOLATE, and can never be altered at the whim of a dealer or pit boss/manager.

    6. I've been around a bit, seen dealers in and from many parts of the world, and at the risk of upsetting my American friends I have to say that American roulette dealing standards and procedures are abysmal. It seems like the above mentioned Table Games Director fits right into that standard if Richard Marcus' three measures aren't already part of his table procedures.

  4. #84
    Kewlj let me be blunt. Let me give you the benefit of the doubt and say this ONE dealer is telling the truth about his ability. In which case he's one in a million.

    Do I think dealers can cheat? Sure they could. I think they could take advantage of players who count their cards slowly and take away winning hands at blackjack. I think they can miss-call tilted dice. I think they can call no bets when bets are valid.

    BUT I DON'T BELIEVE THE CLAIM OF THIS DEALER WITHOUT SEEING IT.

  5. #85
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    MaxPen think about it for a moment. What percentage of two decks is made up of tens?

    Player inserts the cut card, after the tens are clumped.

    Now what is the likelihood that the clump of tens is preserved? And what is the likelihood that the clump of tens is moved to the back of the two decks so they are not dealt?

    This magician would not only be able to clump the tens but would have to be a psychic to know where the player inserts the cut card.

    In fact he claimed that ability. See:

    I would purposely keep a "chunk" of 10s and Aces in an area that most people would cut out and wind up behind the cut card via offset shuffling. You really see this in 2 Deck games

    And he did this with only two decks which gives him virtually no margin for error.
    Actually the chunk of 10's and aces behind the cut card is only one of several possibilities that favors the house and would dramatically increase house edge. That happens to be the scenario this person was speaking about as he describes that under that scenario "the card counter would be betting into a false count".

    But suppose the high card/ Ace clump was cut into play at the beginning of the shoe. An abundant of 10's and aces (advantage player) would come out the first couple rounds when the card counter had his minimum wager out and there would likely be some 20's pushes with the dealer. Then later in the shoe when the small cards were coming out the house would be at a huge advantage, as the dealer would be making 20, 21 hands out of what look to be bust hands (small cards coming out).

    It wouldn't be AS favorable as the scenario that Nightshifter described where the card counter was "tricked" into betting heavy into a false count.....false because the high cards would never come out before the shuffle, but it would still be favorable to the house. There are a number of ways to manipulate the cards in favor of the house.

  6. #86
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Kewlj let me be blunt. Let me give you the benefit of the doubt and say this ONE dealer is telling the truth about his ability. In which case he's one in a million.

    Do I think dealers can cheat? Sure they could. I think they could take advantage of players who count their cards slowly and take away winning hands at blackjack. I think they can miss-call tilted dice. I think they can call no bets when bets are valid.

    BUT I DON'T BELIEVE THE CLAIM OF THIS DEALER WITHOUT SEEING IT.
    Do you believe in Jehovah?
    If you do have you ever seen him?

    Originally Posted by tableplay View Post
    Originally Posted by monet View Post
    I do believe that Casino dealer cheating is rare these days but I am sure it still happens.
    Ok you nailed it with this statement. Like the guy who returns a missed field goal for a touchdown. Or when someone tells you that they are the best in the world at something and they actually are.
    The most important part of the nail was:
    Cheat them before they cheat you!

  7. #87
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    MaxPen think about it for a moment. What percentage of two decks is made up of tens?

    Player inserts the cut card, after the tens are clumped.

    Now what is the likelihood that the clump of tens is preserved? And what is the likelihood that the clump of tens is moved to the back of the two decks so they are not dealt?

    This magician would not only be able to clump the tens but would have to be a psychic to know where the player inserts the cut card.

    In fact he claimed that ability. See:

    I would purposely keep a "chunk" of 10s and Aces in an area that most people would cut out and wind up behind the cut card via offset shuffling. You really see this in 2 Deck games

    And he did this with only two decks which gives him virtually no margin for error.
    4/13 or slightly over 30%.
    Now answer my questions instead of asking more. This is why you are just hopeless. Clue_It makes no difference if they're dealt or not

  8. #88
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    MaxPen think about it for a moment. What percentage of two decks is made up of tens?

    Player inserts the cut card, after the tens are clumped.

    Now what is the likelihood that the clump of tens is preserved? And what is the likelihood that the clump of tens is moved to the back of the two decks so they are not dealt?

    This magician would not only be able to clump the tens but would have to be a psychic to know where the player inserts the cut card.

    In fact he claimed that ability. See:

    I would purposely keep a "chunk" of 10s and Aces in an area that most people would cut out and wind up behind the cut card via offset shuffling. You really see this in 2 Deck games

    And he did this with only two decks which gives him virtually no margin for error.
    Actually the chunk of 10's and aces behind the cut card is only one of several possibilities that favors the house and would dramatically increase house edge. That happens to be the scenario this person was speaking about as he describes that under that scenario "the card counter would be betting into a false count".

    But suppose the high card/ Ace clump was cut into play at the beginning of the shoe. An abundant of 10's and aces (advantage player) would come out the first couple rounds when the card counter had his minimum wager out and there would likely be some 20's pushes with the dealer. Then later in the shoe when the small cards were coming out the house would be at a huge advantage, as the dealer would be making 20, 21 hands out of what look to be bust hands (small cards coming out).

    It wouldn't be AS favorable as the scenario that Nightshifter described where the card counter was "tricked" into betting heavy into a false count.....false because the high cards would never come out before the shuffle, but it would still be favorable to the house. There are a number of ways to manipulate the cards in favor of the house.
    Now you're trying to justify what this Nightshifter posted.

    Instead of trying to justify it, think for yourself. You read what he wrote.

    I would purposely keep a "chunk" of 10s and Aces in an area that most people would cut out and wind up behind the cut card via offset shuffling. You really see this in 2 Deck games

    Now, use your experience playing two deck games. And tell us how reasonable a claim is this?

    That's what I'm talking about here kewlj. THIS CLAIM. AND ONLY THIS CLAIM.

  9. #89
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    MaxPen think about it for a moment. What percentage of two decks is made up of tens?

    Player inserts the cut card, after the tens are clumped.

    Now what is the likelihood that the clump of tens is preserved? And what is the likelihood that the clump of tens is moved to the back of the two decks so they are not dealt?

    This magician would not only be able to clump the tens but would have to be a psychic to know where the player inserts the cut card.

    In fact he claimed that ability. See:

    I would purposely keep a "chunk" of 10s and Aces in an area that most people would cut out and wind up behind the cut card via offset shuffling. You really see this in 2 Deck games

    And he did this with only two decks which gives him virtually no margin for error.
    4/13 or slightly over 30%.
    Now answer my questions instead of asking more. This is why you are just hopeless. Clue_It makes no difference if they're dealt or not
    Thirty percent... and that 30% clump survives the cut card and the cut? And just what percentage of the time does that happen with two decks?

  10. #90
    I couldn't do it Alan.

    I don't believe 99% of dealers could do it.

    I don't believe 99.9%, maybe 99.99 % of dealers do it.

    But yes I most certainly believe it can be done.

    Look up the word "mechanic" in regards to casino dealing.


    Now whether this guy is doing it or has ever done it...I have no idea. But he is describing perfectly how one would go about doing it and the effect that it would have. THAT demonstrates knowledge. And that is half the battle. After that all it would take is a little bit of practice.

    So I am back to YES, it is very possible.

  11. #91
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    MaxPen think about it for a moment. What percentage of two decks is made up of tens?

    Player inserts the cut card, after the tens are clumped.

    Now what is the likelihood that the clump of tens is preserved? And what is the likelihood that the clump of tens is moved to the back of the two decks so they are not dealt?

    This magician would not only be able to clump the tens but would have to be a psychic to know where the player inserts the cut card.

    In fact he claimed that ability. See:

    I would purposely keep a "chunk" of 10s and Aces in an area that most people would cut out and wind up behind the cut card via offset shuffling. You really see this in 2 Deck games

    And he did this with only two decks which gives him virtually no margin for error.
    4/13 or slightly over 30%.
    Now answer my questions instead of asking more. This is why you are just hopeless. Clue_It makes no difference if they're dealt or not
    Thirty percent... and that 30% clump survives the cut card and the cut? And just what percentage of the time does that happen with two decks?
    Why anyone wastes time talking to you is beyond reason. I'm out. Feel free to continue being life's sucker.

  12. #92
    Don't talk to me MaxPen. Instead get two decks of cards. Clump together all the tens and aces. Ask several people to insert a cut card, then make the cut. Tell us how many times the clump remains behind so they aren't dealt.

    Just do it.

    Live in your fantasy world.

  13. #93
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    MaxPen think about it for a moment. What percentage of two decks is made up of tens?

    Player inserts the cut card, after the tens are clumped.

    Now what is the likelihood that the clump of tens is preserved? And what is the likelihood that the clump of tens is moved to the back of the two decks so they are not dealt?

    This magician would not only be able to clump the tens but would have to be a psychic to know where the player inserts the cut card.

    In fact he claimed that ability. See:

    I would purposely keep a "chunk" of 10s and Aces in an area that most people would cut out and wind up behind the cut card via offset shuffling. You really see this in 2 Deck games

    And he did this with only two decks which gives him virtually no margin for error.
    4/13 or slightly over 30%.
    Now answer my questions instead of asking more. This is why you are just hopeless. Clue_It makes no difference if they're dealt or not
    Thirty percent... and that 30% clump survives the cut card and the cut? And just what percentage of the time does that happen with two decks?
    Alan, you always think everything is absolute, 100%.

    Not all the 10's (30% of total cards) would be in that clump. Some would still be spread out throughout the decks. All you would need is a higher concentrate than "normal".

    Same thing with cutting a clump out of play. The guys clearly said, not always was the clump cut out of play. But based on trends, more often than not, it could be. And that is all you need to increase the house edge dramatically or to send a player, particularly a card counter from +EV to big -EV.

  14. #94
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post

    Why anyone wastes time talking to you is beyond reason. I'm out. Feel free to continue being life's sucker.
    That's cold.
    In the end we are all life's sucker to be fair and balanced.

  15. #95
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    I couldn't do it Alan.

    I don't believe 99% of dealers could do it.

    I don't believe 99.9%, maybe 99.99 % of dealers do it.

    But yes I most certainly believe it can be done.

    Look up the word "mechanic" in regards to casino dealing.


    Now whether this guy is doing it or has ever done it...I have no idea. But he is describing perfectly how one would go about doing it and the effect that it would have. THAT demonstrates knowledge. And that is half the battle. After that all it would take is a little bit of practice.

    So I am back to YES, it is very possible.
    Fine you believe it's possible. I also believe it's possible and I'm sure I could find a magician at the Magic Castle who can do it.

    Does that mean I should worry about it in a casino with all of the dealers who can't do it?

  16. #96
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Fine you believe it's possible. I also believe it's possible and I'm sure I could find a magician at the Magic Castle who can do it.

    Does that mean I should worry about it in a casino with all of the dealers who can't do it?
    Worry? No. Be vigilant and aware of the possibility? Yes.

    ESPECIALLY if you are a card counting type AP who makes his living from that game.

    Like I said, I have had exactly two dealers that I believe cheated me (multiple times) out of thousands. (there were probably more that I didn't catch on to), but 2 that I feel certain did. So because I am aware that it can happen, I was able to identify it and cut my losses. One casino I removed from my rotation, the second I just removed that dealer from my rotation.

    IF I just said "oh it's 2019 and that kind of thing doesn't happen anymore", my losses would have been many times greater. I mean maybe a guy who enjoys playing -EV games and making his regular donation to the casinos wouldn't care. But I do.

  17. #97
    Before you joined this forum there was a thread started by a member named Ahhcraps who talked about a bad call at a table at Caesars and how no player at the table would throw the dice because of it.

    A couple of weeks ago, me and three other players walked out of a casino where the craps dealers were making bad calls.

    You're not the only one who takes action kewlj.

  18. #98
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    BUT I DON'T BELIEVE THE CLAIM OF THIS DEALER WITHOUT SEEING IT.

    Since KJ along with several other Vegas AP’s are working Vegas casinos for a living and who would need to remain anonymous, we need to find a person there who is willing to take this to the next level.

    I think Alan a resident, known gambler to the casinos, career investigator reporter would fit this setting perfectly. He should contact the NGC, local mayor, senator, congressmen, then firstly direct them all to this person’s posts claiming to be a cheating dealer for Vegas casinos.

    Just put Einstein Mickey’s opinion into action. Quote: “My opinion is NGC should be informed of the possibility. NGC should start an undercover investigation to see if it is going on and how prevalent it is. And perpetrators should be punished. They need to send a big message that it won't be tolerated.”

    If NGC takes no action is the reason you contacted elected officials. One of them should be willing to take the baton and run with it. If still no response then last resort would be to try contacting Harry Reid. I’m sure he still has connections with the Clinton Mafia. Maybe if we all get together and make a donation to one of their charities, we could then convince them into getting to the bottom of this.
    Last edited by blackhole; 01-22-2019 at 05:02 AM.

  19. #99
    I want to know why kewlj believes in this? Could it be he needs an excuse to account for his losses?

    Of course! Only a cheating dealer could make him lose thousands.

  20. #100
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by blackhole View Post
    To throw another unproven bullshit claim story at us just like the ASM claim looking for a thumbs up or thumbs down.
    Over the course of the fall, this model machine did show up at two other properties in the Valley and were quickly exploited by local players (not me) who were all over it. And it is my understanding the top table AP and his team did quite a bit of damage out of town at several locations before machines were pulled.
    KJ, am I correct in assuming from what you said above that those machines were taken out of the Valley casinos as well as the out of town ones? Something else really interesting I caught in that post that you hadn`t mentioned before, but I know you can`t say much about the subject so I`ll leave that part alone. You can probably guess it.

    To Alan: as KJ suggested, try searching on YouTube for "mechanic cheating dealers" or something like that. I`ve seen one where a poker dealer could tell you who he`s going to deal pocket aces to, and demonstrated similar things with perfect accuracy. Obviously not many people can do these types of things, but it is possible.

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