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Thread: Gambling Lies Come Around....And In Such A Righteous Way

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  1. #1
    Wow--I see everyone is a bit aghast over this....and don't say you haven't seen it yet on the other thread. What it does is expose the so-called/self-proclaimed "poker pros" for what they truly are and what they know they'll become.....while the same obviously holds true for their fellow addicts, aka "full-time AP's who claim to win a living".

    Now I know those who've been too embarrassed to discuss this extraordinary article will, out of sheer weakness, eventually come on and attack the author, attack me, and load their post up with a plethora of "bbbbut....this isn't me!" and "I ain't like dem guys" etc.etc.etc. Too bad guys, the undeniable truth is right there! Here's my lovable post:

    I haven't been reading this silly forum recently and I don't have a lot of time so I'm putting this up on the first thread that popped up. Alan informed me he has quit and he sent me this article to post that is very much worthy of being printed in my Undeniable Truth column if I were still writing. I didn't copy the link properly and I don't have the time to mess with fixing it, but it's all below. It is a very telling expose' on the so-called "Poker Pros" out there, and without hesitation I'd add in anyone who describes themselves as "living as an AP".

    Enjoy....and don't get too flustered with the many truths included within.

    Poker News :
    Why Do So Many Poker Pros Die Broke?
    Card Player Columnist Alan Schoonmaker Analyzes The Ways In Which Poker Players Risk Their Future
    by Alan Schoonmaker | Published: Jan 29, 2019

    Because there aren’t any reliable statistics, nobody knows for sure how many poker pros die broke. But it’s certainly too many.

    If you’re a pro, you have a much higher probability of dying broke than members of other professions, including people who earn much less than you’re winning now. Of course, you may think it won’t happen to you, but that’s also what they thought before they got busted.

    This series will analyze why it happens so often and recommend the ways to avoid it.

    The Primary Cause

    Most of the specific causes discussed here will have one common factor, which is arrogance.

    Self-confidence, of course, is essential for a successful pro, but you shouldn’t believe, "I’m too special to die broke.”

    No, you’re not.

    You’re just another talented player, and it’s happened to many talented players. Are you more talented than the legendary Johnny Moss? What about Stu Ungar, Dave ‘Devilfish’ Ulliott, and Gavin Smith? Do you win more money?

    Johnny won the first two World Series of Poker championships, but ended up dependent on charity from the Binion’s family. Stu was arguably history’s greatest no-limit tournament player, but he died in a crummy motel. He was a junkie, but drugs weren’t the only cause for his tragic ending. Devilfish and Gavin each won World Poker Tour and WSOP titles, along with millions in tournaments and cash games, but Phil Hellmuth and other pros have run charity tournaments or started crowdfunding pages to help their surviving families.

    Nolan Dalla covered the tournament circuit for years. In a column for Poker Pages, he once wrote: “One of the most troubling aspects of the tournament circuit is seeing how many players are constantly broke. I’m not talking about bad poker players or novices. I’m talking about names and faces everyone would recognize… If former World Series of Poker winners are broke, what chance do you have of making it on the circuit? The odds are overwhelmingly stacked against you.”

    You may say, “That’s irrelevant. I know tournaments are too risky. That’s why I play only for cash.” So what? If you walk into many large poker rooms, you’ll see players who once beat big cash games struggling to survive in small ones.

    In fact, the worst fate isn’t dying broke; it’s living broke for your final years.

    As you read this article, ask yourself, “How often do I make these mistakes?”

    They Don’t Save Money

    It’s the most common and easily avoided mistake. For thousands of years wise people have spent less than they made. In the Old Testament of the Bible, Joseph advised the Pharaoh to save grain in good years to avoid starvation in the bad ones.

    You can easily see arrogance’s effects. Dozens of authorities have written that losing streaks are inevitable and have recommended saving money. But too many pros think, “That doesn’t apply to me because I’ll always beat the game.”

    No, you won’t. You may never have a catastrophic losing streak, but variance virtually guarantees that you won’t always beat the game. If you add in the fact that your mental abilities will decline with age, you’ll certainly have some bad years. Even if you’re a net winner, you may not cover your expenses.

    They Invest Poorly

    Of course, some pros do save money, but they may not invest it well. Again, we see the effects of arrogance. They think, “I’m so smart that I don’t need any advice from investment professionals.” Poker players often make amateurish investment mistakes.

    They Play Other Games

    Some pros essentially ship money from poker tables to craps and other unbeatable games. They may never admit it, even to themselves, but in their secret hearts they believe those games may be unbeatable for ordinary people, but not for them.

    “I’m so superior that the laws of probability and lots of other rules don’t apply to me.”

    Arrogance also causes some outstanding tournament players to be ‘live ones’ in cash games. When some of them make the final table, their side-game opponents cheer them on. If they have a big tournament payday, their cash game opponents will probably get a nice piece of it.

    “Their arrogance prevents them from learning from their past losses. They delude themselves that this time will be different, that their true superiority will allow them to beat games that have repeatedly defeated them.” (Schoonmaker, Arrogance, the Biggest Bankroll Buster)

    They Cheat On Their Taxes

    Some pros cheat, and a few don’t even file tax returns. Believe it or not, honestly paying your taxes can increase your long-term security.

    First, you’ll pay more social security, a forced saving for retirement. Because the cost of living allowance frequently increases benefits, most people get back much more than they contributed.

    Ask some struggling older pros if they get much social security. Some will say, “No,” and a few will admit, “I don’t get any.”

    Second, if you don’t pay social security for at least ten years, you’re not eligible for Medicare. Medical costs become immensely higher as you get older, and they have busted countless older pros. Some older pros have severe health problems or die prematurely because they can’t afford treatments or preventative health care.

    Third, you can use programs to deduct your retirement contributions, and the interest, dividends, and other profits accumulate tax free until you retire. You’ll build a secure retirement fund.

    They Don’t Buy Health Insurance

    It’s another effect of arrogance. Too many pros, especially young ones, think, “I don’t need health insurance because I’ll always be healthy.” They may be right, but it’s an extremely foolish risk.

    Without health insurance your entire bankroll, health, and even your life are at risk every day. Too many pros have been busted by the enormous costs of an illness or accident.

    They Don’t Protect Their Health

    On this issue arrogance has subtler effects. You’ve read that you should eat healthy foods and exercise regularly, but may ignore those recommendations. Some pros subconsciously believe, “Those rules don’t apply to me.”

    They rarely exercise and eat badly. They may even sneer at authorities such as Dr. Cardner because they think her recommendations about diet and exercise are irrelevant for poker players.

    It’s another form of arrogance. They think that poker is unique, that the rules that apply to other activities don’t apply to playing poker.

    Nonsense!

    We have exactly the same bodies as everyone else, and mistreating our bodies has the same effects. We can’t play well if we don’t feel well.

    Worse yet, poor health has much greater effects on poker pros’ incomes than on the incomes of other professionals. The late Barry Tanenbaum, wrote: “Professional poker is a ruthless meritocracy.”

    You can make a living as a mediocre salesman, teacher, lawyer, carpenter, or doctor. Most people are mediocre, but nearly everyone makes a living. You can’t survive as a poker pro unless you’re among the best.

    If you neglect your health, you’ll have higher medical costs, and you won’t play well enough to pay them. You probably won’t just die broke. You’ll also die a lot sooner.

    What’s Next?

    Alan SchoonmakerFuture columns will describe other causes for dying broke and tell you how to retire securely. I hope you take them seriously. They can save your bankroll, your health, and your life.

  2. #2
    https://www.cardplayer.com/poker-new...pros-die-broke

    This line caught my eye and describes Rob 100%

    “I’m so superior that the laws of probability and lots of other rules don’t apply to me.”

    As for the article, most poker players, including "pros" are degenerates or scammers.

  3. #3
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    https://www.cardplayer.com/poker-new...pros-die-broke

    This line caught my eye and describes Rob 100%

    “I’m so superior that the laws of probability and lots of other rules don’t apply to me.”

    As for the article, most poker players AND AP's, including "pros" are degenerates or scammers.
    Couldn't wait to give the perception of denial whilst attacking me with another lie, could you

  4. #4
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    https://www.cardplayer.com/poker-new...pros-die-broke

    This line caught my eye and describes Rob 100%

    “I’m so superior that the laws of probability and lots of other rules don’t apply to me.”

    As for the article, most poker players, including "pros" are degenerates or scammers.
    Couldn't wait to give the perception of denial whilst attacking me with another lie, could you
    No attack on you. You perceive yourself this way.

  5. #5
    I see you finally made it to another source of free WiFi. Projecting your unsubstantial existence with that of a failed poker pro is hilarious. Trying to compare an AP to a poker player is even more funny.
    Why don't you see if Alan has a spot in his driveway for your camper van? Maybe he lives in range of some free WiFi. Pretty sure Alan quitting is due to wanting a few more rolls on the craps table each month, so he cancelled his internet and is too dumb to figure out how to get it for free. Maybe you could teach him how to pilfer bandwith so he can come back here.

  6. #6
    Robocchio, I thought you had some news. This is just the same shit I've known for years. I've personally overheard famous poker pros ask for loans. I've also overheard them say they don't have it when someone asks to get payed back. Nothing new to me in that article.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  7. #7
    mickey, although you're not doing a very good job trying to brush this now-syndicated article under the nearest rug....exactly why is it that you AP's claim to be "immune" to the pitfalls of these poker pros, even as they are not playing against the well-armed/well-bankrolled house and you guys are? It would also be interesting to get a take on this from Dan, a self-described poker pro as well as an admitted AP.

    I like the agitation displayed by Max again. That alone answers a dozen questions.

  8. #8
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    mickey, although you're not doing a very good job trying to brush this now-syndicated article under the nearest rug....exactly why is it that you AP's claim to be "immune" to the pitfalls of these poker pros, even as they are not playing against the well-armed/well-bankrolled house and you guys are? It would also be interesting to get a take on this from Dan, a self-described poker pro as well as an admitted AP.

    I like the agitation displayed by Max again. That alone answers a dozen questions.
    Is Alan going to be using you as his mouthpiece now?...How is the construction project going?

  9. #9
    Originally Posted by Keystone View Post
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    mickey, although you're not doing a very good job trying to brush this now-syndicated article under the nearest rug....exactly why is it that you AP's claim to be "immune" to the pitfalls of these poker pros, even as they are not playing against the well-armed/well-bankrolled house and you guys are? It would also be interesting to get a take on this from Dan, a self-described poker pro as well as an admitted AP.

    I like the agitation displayed by Max again. That alone answers a dozen questions.
    Is Alan going to be using you as his mouthpiece now?...How is the construction project going?
    Highly doubtful there's any construction project. He probably got discovered by the creditors he owes.

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    mickey, although you're not doing a very good job trying to brush this now-syndicated article under the nearest rug....exactly why is it that you AP's claim to be "immune" to the pitfalls of these poker pros, even as they are not playing against the well-armed/well-bankrolled house and you guys are? It would also be interesting to get a take on this from Dan, a self-described poker pro as well as an admitted AP.

    I like the agitation displayed by Max again. That alone answers a dozen questions.
    Robocchio, as usual you are making the shit up as you go. Every business owner has the potential to die broke. It happens all the time. So you have not come up with any groundbreaking news here. I have never claimed to be "immune" from anything. That is just another one of your false pretexts. You may as well have named this thread "Dry Wall Contractors Lies Come Around....And In Such A Righteous Way."
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  11. #11
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    exactly why is it that you AP's claim to be "immune" to the pitfalls of these poker pros, even as they are not playing against the well-armed/well-bankrolled house and you guys are?
    Sure, poker players are not playing against the house, they are playing against each other, but they are playing against the house commission. Cash games have a stiff rake and tournament fees can go as high as 30% of the buy-in. 90% of poker players can't overcome the juice. Compare that to a machine pro playing with an advantage against the house.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  12. #12
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    exactly why is it that you AP's claim to be "immune" to the pitfalls of these poker pros, even as they are not playing against the well-armed/well-bankrolled house and you guys are?
    Sure, poker players are not playing against the house, they are playing against each other, but they are playing against the house commission. Cash games have a stiff rake and tournament fees can go as high as 30% of the buy-in. 90% of poker players can't overcome the juice. Compare that to a machine pro playing with an advantage against the house.
    It is pointless to use logic or facts with Robocchio and Alan.

  13. #13
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    I like the agitation displayed by Max again. That alone answers a dozen questions.
    Rob. Don't you think you are being a little too hard on MaxPen? I mean he's been agitated since he was a baby. It started when his mom boarded a bus. The driver said "eck, what an ugly baby." She sat down fuming and told the gent sitting next to her that the driver just insulted her.

    The gent replied, "you go up and tell that bus driver off but good. It's okay, go ahead, I'll watch your monkey."

  14. #14
    Originally Posted by Moses View Post
    Don't you think you are being a little too hard on MaxPen? I mean he's been agitated since he was a baby.
    Like I wrote earlier...they see what they want to see...

    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    I know that I am about as decent person as one could hope to meet.

  15. #15
    It's this simple. We (AP's) think long-term. You guys think short-term.

    You can tell us about your $700 daily wins, but at the end of the year (long-term), you lose how many thousands? Just like Alan. 100k win one day and STILL a loser for the year. THAT is the result of -EV play.

    Conversely, I can tell you about a losing day ($8800) or a losing week ($29k) and at the end of the year, I am still ahead 80, 90 thousand dollars. +EV play.

    If you don't grasp the difference between long-term and short-term results in relationship to +EV and -EV, you are destined to be Alan Mendelson.....losing year after year after year.

    That is about as blunt (and harsh) as I can be.

  16. #16
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    That is about as blunt (and harsh) as I can be.
    Who are you replying to, and why are you still taking shots at Alan when he is no longer participating here?

  17. #17
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Conversely, I can tell you about a losing day ($8800) or a losing week ($29k) and at the end of the year, I am still ahead 80, 90 thousand dollars. +EV play.
    .
    Just think where you'd be without those losses!

  18. #18
    Originally Posted by Moses View Post
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    I like the agitation displayed by Max again. That alone answers a dozen questions.
    Rob. Don't you think you are being a little too hard on MaxPen? I mean he's been agitated since he was a baby. It started when his mom boarded a bus. The driver said "eck, what an ugly baby." She sat down fuming and told the gent sitting next to her that the driver just insulted her.

    The gent replied, "you go up and tell that bus driver off but good. It's okay, go ahead, I'll watch your monkey."
    Okay that was actually pretty funny.
    #FreeTyde

  19. #19
    I don't play poker and know very little about poker. I know exactly one so called poker player and he was basically living in his car when I met him. I don't want to hold him out to be anything representative of ….anything.

    But, I think the comparison of poker players and legitimate AP's is night and day....apples to oranges. I think it is an entirely different mindset. Only someone looking to connect the two in some negative fashion, would see that comparison as valid.

  20. #20
    It's been said by one of our members, "there is a lot of shit on Vegas Casino Talk, but every once in a while someone mentions an interesting tidbit of information."

    Probably not the best forum for choir boys. But I read and learn something new nearly everyday. IF you want to know something? All you have to do is ask. In spite of sharp tongues with each other, they are very cordial in their answers. Unless of course you waltz right in and start asking opinions on who the good guys and the bad guys.
    Last edited by Moses; 01-29-2019 at 11:31 PM.

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