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Thread: Gambling Forums

  1. #1
    With all the discussions currently going on about BJTF, wizard of odds, zenzone, this forum, etc, I thought this would be a good time to ask some general question about these forums. I’ve been curious on how all these forums came to be. What is the history behind them? The first forum I signed onto was bj21.com about 2 years ago. My handle was bob32. Don’t remember why I used 32, but bob has always been my go to name.

    I’m still a member there but don’t visit it much since it seems pretty dead. I probably should stop the autopay from my credit card so I don’t keep renewing my subscription. I got on that site to ask a blackjack question and the person that answerd it was Don S, so I was very impressed to get a personal reply from the legend himself.

    Back to my questions: Why are there so many blackjack forums? Why is one more popular than another? Why did bj21.com somewhat go by the wayside? What is blackjack.info? I also check it out from time to time, but nothing is usually going on there. I’ve been checking out zenzone more than the others due to Moses’s entertaining posts. Yes, I’ve become a Moses groupie too.

    The other one I always check out is wizard of odds, mostly because of some good advice from Romes. Why does he only post on that site? I know that’s not a question anybody but him can answer, but I’ve always wondered why I don’t see him on other forums. I listened to his GWAE podcast and thought it was excellent!

    This question is mostly for KJ since he seems to know the most about these forums, but anybody can answer. I’m just trying to understand better how and why these different sites came to be...and why some are more popular than others.

    I really like this one. It has a lot of good information and people aren’t scared of posting or being banned. It seems like that is a big thing with these different sites...banning people for trivial things. I also like that this site is free, but I don’t know why. I’m sure Dan could charge a token fee and we’d still all be here.

    One more question for KJ: Have you ever thought about being on GWAE? I think you'd make a great guest since your play is more in line with the average bj grinder. I really like your adivce. I’ve listened to the podcasts with Joe and Youshi but I have a hard time believing some of their stores. They claimed they made from $300,000 to $400,000 in their first year, starting with next to nothing. And seven figures within two or theee years. I know it’s possible but it’s hard for me to believe. Kj’s stories sound more believable. Anyway, I hope someday you can get on GMAE to tell your story.

    The other person who should be on GWAE is Moses. Wow, that would be one for the ages! It’d probably be one of the more popular podcasts with all Moses unique stores and sense of humor.

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    2,441
    Yes, I have been asked numerous times to be on GWAE. While I appreciate the compliment that Munchkin, you and others have interest, I don't think that is the best platform for me. I am not a great communicator, either speaking or in written form. I often have trouble getting out just what I want to say and often have to go back and try to re-phrase to try to get my point across. That is bad enough in a written format, even worse as a guest answering questions. In addition, I sometimes write things that a short time later I regret, mostly because it is too much information, compromising information. On forums, at least I have a short time to go back and 'clean something up' if I change my mind. On GWAE, once said, it would be out there.


    I will give you my experience with the different forums. First forum I came across and the absolute best on the topic of blackjack and blackjack advantage play was blackjackinfo. Great forum, lots of successful players that shared their experiences and knowledge. As a young player, I benefited a great deal. Yes, there was a bit of sniping at one another. I have come to realize that is part of any forum. But looking back, blackjackinfo was minimal compared to today's forums.

    The original blackjackinfo shut down in Dec 2011. The Blackjackinfo that you are reading today is a re-incarnation, by different ownership and management, now owned by the same online group that brought WoV and later BJ21. Traffic at all these sites has declined greatly under that groups ownership, in part because some of the membership is uncomfortable with ownership by online casino industry although WoV has many other issues at play. Al Rogers who ran BJ21 for Stanford Wong, now runs blackjackinfo as well as BJ21 for the online group. Al is a great guy, a genuine AP, but he is the lone good point of the whole situation.

    So when BJinfo shut down, most of the membership migrated to Qfit's forum, because he made certain promises to change his ways. He didn't keep those promises and it quickly became clear BJTF was only about platform for promoting and selling his products and Norm extracting revenge on the many players he has had issues with over the years. Between bannings and most legit knowledgeable players leaving, BJTF has dwindled to what it is today, a couple "frauds" misleading players, protected by QFIT for the purpose of creating traffic, a very small handful of legit players, guarded in what they really share and a constant flow of newbies (potential new software clients), which is Norm's real desire.

    Most of the real and legit players migrated to a private forum run by a long-time member of Tommy Hyland's team. Membership requires you to meet and know current members who vouch for you. If you ask around about this forum, you will get no response, other than maybe "it doesn't exist".

    WoV was always on the edge of the Blackjack AP community, because it was not specific to blackjack, but rather blackjack AP was in the larger AP discussion, along with other topic related to casinos and gambling and having nothing to do with casinos and gambling. When I joined it became my favorite because it covered more than just blackjack AP. Over time as a result of Wizard's heavy handed moderator style, WoV has regressed in quality and membership size to what it is today, a shell of what it once was. My guess is that is OK with Shackleford. He made his money. Now it's just a play toy, where some of the loyal membership heaps praise on him. He seems to need that.

    So that is sort of the blackjack community Today.
    Last edited by kewlJ; 02-01-2019 at 08:34 AM.

  3. #3
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    Back to my questions: Why are there so many blackjack forums? Why is one more popular than another? Why did bj21.com somewhat go by the wayside? What is blackjack.info? I also check it out from time to time, but nothing is usually going on there. I’ve been checking out zenzone more than the others due to Moses’s entertaining posts. Yes, I’ve become a Moses groupie too..
    Thanks Bob 21. KJ has some excellent posts at ZZ that go back a few years. To say KJ and I are friends would be a stretch as I'm sure he agrees. But we are in the same profession and I do respect him. The reason is because he is consistent and stands up for what he believes in no matter who it's against or what price is paid.

    My idea sort of piggy backed off what KJ had been doing. Norm deletes posts and BJTF is his own little world of make believe, with puppets, and those who fear the ruler of the evil empire. Much like the Conway Twitty song "It's only Make Believe."

    People see us everywhere.
    They think Norm really cares.
    But what they can't conceive
    It's not real and only Make Believe


    For me, ZZ is simply an extension of the posts I made at BJTF, only now with free of speech and to expose BJTF for the fantasies and lies they project and the puppets they protect. It may not always be real good. But it is always real. And that scares people at BJTF, so they call it crazy because it's their only defense. Have you yet to see one of them come over and challenge me? No, and you won't because most are not even real and the ones who are real are scared shitless of Norm Whatthefuucker.

    So T3 calls ZZ misfits because it's primarily a group that was banned from the fantasy world of BJTF. T3 is like the little guy saying "Norm da plane, da plane."
    However, if you do a little research of T3 and others. They've been banned from many forums and easy to identity when a Dummy goes on under a different name. He just gets drilled. His volumes of words on other sites are of no value whatsoever.

    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    This question is mostly for KJ since he seems to know the most about these forums, but anybody can answer. I’m just trying to understand better how and why these different sites came to be...and why some are more popular than others..
    Yes. KJ is an excellent resource. HE should consider starting his own newsletter.

    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    The other person who should be on GWAE is Moses. Wow, that would be one for the ages! It’d probably be one of the more popular podcasts with all Moses unique stores and sense of humor.
    I call 'em like I see 'em. Like you said, I don't put my finger in the air to see which way the wind is blowing. I'd probably need body guards to protect me against Norm and his little Army of nerds carrying water pistols.
    Last edited by Moses; 02-01-2019 at 08:37 AM.

  4. #4
    Man, this Bob dude has a serious crush on Moses ��

  5. #5
    Originally Posted by Keystone View Post
    Man, this Bob dude has a serious crush on Moses ��
    It's called mutual respect. It's not like queers or anything. If that were the case, we'd wear our hair and clothes like...YOURS. LOL
    Last edited by Moses; 02-01-2019 at 08:53 AM.

  6. #6
    Originally Posted by Moses View Post
    Originally Posted by Keystone View Post
    Man, this Bob dude has a serious crush on Moses ��
    It's called mutual respect. It's not like queers or anything. If that were the case, we'd wear are hair and clothes like...YOURS. LOL
    Yes, mutual respect...I`ve heard it called that before.....and its "our" hair and clothes, not "are"....damn spellcheck huh?

  7. #7
    Originally Posted by Keystone View Post
    Yes, mutual respect...I`ve heard it called that before.....and its "our" hair and clothes, not "are"....damn spellcheck huh?
    Woo Baby! Not THAT was one helluva comeback. I thought you trolls had more in you than that?

  8. #8
    Originally Posted by Moses View Post
    Originally Posted by Keystone View Post
    Yes, mutual respect...I`ve heard it called that before.....and its "our" hair and clothes, not "are"....damn spellcheck huh?
    Woo Baby! Not THAT was one helluva comeback. I thought you trolls had more in you than that?
    Sorry to disappoint you...and please, save the ďbabyísĒ for Bob

  9. #9
    Unlike you, I don't go around inquiring about that sort of thing. Hey, if two guys want to play ball? Who is pitchin and who is catchin is none of my concern.

    Not the case for you? Please check for spelling and English errors before your answer. I know that is a high priority for nerds.

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by Moses View Post
    Unlike you, I don't go around inquiring about that sort of thing. Hey, if two guys want to play ball? Who is pitchin and who is catchin is none of my concern.

    Not the case for you? Please check for spelling and English errors before your answer. I know that is a high priority for nerds.
    It wasn`t an inquiry, it was a statement .....and I was just trying to help...glad to see you edited and corrected it

  11. #11
    I realize you are quite concerned about safe sex. That's why you mark your camels that kick.

  12. #12
    Originally Posted by Moses View Post
    I realize you are quite concerned about safe sex. That's why you mark your camels that kick.
    I have no clue what any of that means, so I won`t attempt a response at it....why so touchy?....you fired the first queer volley, I just made a statement you guys seemed fond of eachother

  13. #13
    Originally Posted by Keystone View Post
    I have no clue what any of that means, so I won`t attempt a response at it..
    You're about as sharp as a bowling ball there aren't ya? Sorry about interrupting the thread Bob21. No worries. Dan will come along and delete the posts, like usual with Keystone.

  14. #14
    Originally Posted by Moses View Post
    Originally Posted by Keystone View Post
    I have no clue what any of that means, so I won`t attempt a response at it..
    You're about as sharp as a bowling ball there aren't ya? Sorry about interrupting the thread Bob21. No worries. Dan will come along and delete the posts, like usual with Keystone.
    Yes, I`m sorry too Bob...hopefully you`re not as sensitive as Moses...you guys can get back to normally scheduled programming

  15. #15
    Originally Posted by Keystone View Post
    Yes, I`m sorry too Bob...hopefully you`re not as sensitive as Moses...you guys can get back to normally scheduled programming
    Sensitive? They were jokes that you obviously didn't understand. Do I really need to explain them to you simpleton? You probably should keep your trolling in the minor leagues in the future.

  16. #16
    Originally Posted by Moses View Post
    Originally Posted by Keystone View Post
    Yes, I`m sorry too Bob...hopefully you`re not as sensitive as Moses...you guys can get back to normally scheduled programming
    Sensitive? They were jokes that you obviously didn't understand. Do I really need to explain them to you simpleton? You probably should keep your trolling in the minor leagues in the future.
    Yes, obviously lol.....as far as Dan goes, I think he will see I said nothing inappropriate....you, my good man, started in with the homosexual talk....you`re not gonna beat me up are you?

  17. #17
    Okay. Picture 3 guys having a conversation in a sports book. A guy walks up and says, "Man this Bob dude has a serious crush on Moses." So Moses says post 5.

    Essentially, I called you a queer, as a joke response because you levied the first insult directed at one but really both. The guy now has two choices. He can either man up or walk away. Either way, he looks like a dipshit loser., i.e Keystone.

    Now in real life one of the 3 of us would've knocked you on your ass. But on a forum, I pretty much called you a camel fucker in post #11. Geesh. In the words of Singer.

    Wise UP

  18. #18
    Originally Posted by Keystone View Post
    Man, this Bob dude has a serious crush on Moses ��
    Hey Keystone, you arenít too far from being wrong, but just not in the way you think.

    What do I like about Moses? First, he has a creative sense of humor. When he puts someone down, itís not just by name calling, although that is part of his repertoire. Second, he doesnít back down from anybody.

    Have you seen the recent exchanges between Moses and the gang from BJTF? There are a couple self righteous APs at BJTF that are throwing some pretty nasty insults his way, knowing he canít respond. Most people would go in a shell with this many people firing away at them. Moses? It doesnít phase him. He comes at them with two barrels blazing...and I thought did an excellent job of putting them in their place.

    So yeah, I guess you could say I have a crush on Moses, if thatís what you want to call it. I encourage you to go over to zenzone and catch up on some of his recent posts. Heís getting a lot of views (think groupies). Who knows, if you start going over there, you might become one too. Lol.

    Btw, blackhole thinks I have a crush on kJ. I enjoy kjís posts too but they donít have the low brow Midwest humor you see in Mosesís.

  19. #19
    Originally Posted by Moses View Post
    Okay. Picture 3 guys having a conversation in a sports book. A guy walks up and says, "Man this Bob dude has a serious crush on Moses." So Moses says post 5.

    Essentially, I called you a queer, as a joke response because you levied the first insult directed at one but really both. The guy now has two choices. He can either man up or walk away. Either way, he looks like a dipshit loser., i.e Keystone.

    Now in real life one of the 3 of us would've knocked you on your ass. But on a forum, I pretty much called you a camel fucker in post #11. Geesh. In the words of Singer.

    Wise UP
    Camel fucker...hmmm ,interesting.....Bob`s right, your unique stories and humor are unsurpassed lol

  20. #20
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    Originally Posted by Keystone View Post
    Man, this Bob dude has a serious crush on Moses ��
    Hey Keystone, you aren’t too far from being wrong, but just not in the way you think.

    What do I like about Moses? First, he has a creative sense of humor. When he puts someone down, it’s not just by name calling, although that is part of his repertoire. Second, he doesn’t back down from anybody.

    Have you seen the recent exchanges between Moses and the gang from BJTF? There are a couple self righteous APs at BJTF that are throwing some pretty nasty insults his way, knowing he can’t respond. Most people would go in a shell with this many people firing away at them. Moses? It doesn’t phase him. He comes at them with two barrels blazing...and I thought did an excellent job of putting them in their place.

    So yeah, I guess you could say I have a crush on Moses, if that’s what you want to call it. I encourage you to go over to zenzone and catch up on some of his recent posts. He’s getting a lot of views (think groupies). Who knows, if you start going over there, you might become one too. Lol.

    Btw, blackhole thinks I have a crush on kJ. I enjoy kj’s posts too but they don’t have the low brow Midwest humor you see in Moses’s.
    Hi Bob, glad to converse with you...Yes, the above that you stated and that I highlighted was all I was saying....You seem like a nice, level headed person, and not a hothead like Moses....Yikes, he`s a scary guy

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