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Thread: Gambling Forums

  1. #41
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    Itís interesting to see whatís been going on at blackjack the forum lately. Zenzone and Moses have been getting so much press, Norm recently asked his minions to please stop discussions about ZZ. This is interesting in light of Norm in the past discussing (really making disparaging comments) about ZZ on his forum. I remember him calling it an anti-Semitic site.

    It looks like people on BJTF have been lurking on this forum and Zenzone and then feeding off it. Probably because nothing much interesting is going on over there now...and they always need someone to attack.

    Even though Moses has been banned from BJTF, he appears to be somewhat controlling the narrative on that forum recently. Thatís quite a skill set.

    As far as Norm, he does seem to be selective in how he enforces his own rules. With his favorites, he allows them to call people names and attack them without doing anything. If someoneís not his favorite, he puts them in ďtime outĒ (basically bans them for 3 days or some time interval). It reminds me of a kindergarten teacher and what she does to someone when they misbehave. Who knew these forums would be so much like kindergarten?
    Excellent post Bob. Very astute observation. Your mama didn't raise no dummies.

  2. #42
    Bob-ses is laying it on thick now lol

  3. #43
    Originally Posted by Keystone View Post
    Bob-ses is laying it on thick now lol
    Hey Key Stoned. Guess what day it is. Guess what day it is?

  4. #44
    Originally Posted by Moses View Post
    Originally Posted by Keystone View Post
    Bob-ses is laying it on thick now lol
    Hey Key Stoned. Guess what day it is. Guess what day it is?
    It's not even Wednesday! It's a Sunday!

  5. #45
    Originally Posted by Tasha View Post
    It's not even Wednesday! It's a Sunday!
    It's SUPER BOWL Sunday.




    Go easy on the Nachos and Cotton Candy.

  6. #46
    Originally Posted by Keystone View Post
    Bob-ses is laying it on thick now lol
    Yeah, I thought about you when I made my post. But I couldnít resist when I saw Norm telling his minions to stop bringing zenzone into his forum. Indirectly, he was telling his minions to stop allowing Moses back on his forum.

    It reminded me of another person who the rulers tried to silence. Yes, over 2,000 years ago the Romans tried to silence Christ by putting him to death. But all we know how they ended. His popularity and followers grew after the Romans killed him.

    This is kind of what happened to Moses. Norm tried to silence Moses by banishing him from his forum and into the wilderness. But Moses found a forum (Zenzone...also known by some as Mosesí island) that let him preach the Moses gospel (and insult Norm and several others on BJTF constantly, lol).

    What happened? At first not much. But with time, word spread that Moses had reappeared on zenzone, and a couple other forums too. Moses fame grew and his followers (really groupies, with most probably coming from BJTF)) grew to where the ruler (Norm) had a hard time controlling his minions, as they were spending more time lurking on other sites than posting on his.

    So thatís the story. Itís a story of how someone was thrown out in the wilderness by the ruthless ruler, only to come back stronger than ever with a bigger voice and following.

    All kidding aside. Keystone, I donít agree with everything Moses says, but you got to respect someone who doesnít backdown and still finds a way to get back at his former antagonist (Norm) from beyond the grave (BJTF). And you got to admit some of Moses posts are classics.

  7. #47
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    But I couldn’t resist when I saw Norm telling his minions to stop bringing zenzone into his forum. Indirectly, he was telling his minions to stop allowing Moses back on his forum..
    Hmmm. Interesting observation. I didn't think of that.

    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    It reminded me of another person who the rulers tried to silence. Yes, over 2,000 years ago the Romans tried to silence Christ by putting him to death. But all we know how they ended. His popularity and followers grew after the Romans killed him.

    This is kind of what happened to Moses. Norm tried to silence Moses by banishing him from his forum and into the wilderness. But Moses found a forum (Zenzone...also known by some as Moses’ island) that let him preach the Moses gospel (and insult Norm and several others on BJTF constantly, lol)..
    I was somewhat lead to exercise my right of free speech and I wasn't about to let them push me around. Close one door and others open.

    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    What happened? At first not much. But with time, word spread that Moses had reappeared on zenzone, and a couple other forums too. Moses fame grew and his followers (really groupies, with most probably coming from BJTF)) grew to where the ruler (Norm) had a hard time controlling his minions, as they were spending more time lurking on other sites than posting on his..
    I've learned that behind many successful endeavors is someone who is driven because someone else pissed them off.

    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    So that’s the story. It’s a story of how someone was thrown out in the wilderness by the ruthless ruler, only to come back stronger than ever with a bigger voice and following..
    Yes. I'd say Norm has found a foe for life.

    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    All kidding aside. Keystone, I don’t agree with everything Moses says, but you got to respect someone who doesn’t backdown and still finds a way to get back at his former antagonist (Norm) from beyond the grave (BJTF). And you got to admit some of Moses posts are classics.
    I learned a valued lesson early in life. Blood everywhere and it was all mine. So if trouble is unavoidable, and there is no way out, better to run to it than from it.

  8. #48
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    Originally Posted by Keystone View Post
    Bob-ses is laying it on thick now lol
    Yeah, I thought about you when I made my post. But I couldnít resist when I saw Norm telling his minions to stop bringing zenzone into his forum. Indirectly, he was telling his minions to stop allowing Moses back on his forum.

    It reminded me of another person who the rulers tried to silence. Yes, over 2,000 years ago the Romans tried to silence Christ by putting him to death. But all we know how they ended. His popularity and followers grew after the Romans killed him.

    This is kind of what happened to Moses. Norm tried to silence Moses by banishing him from his forum and into the wilderness. But Moses found a forum (Zenzone...also known by some as Mosesí island) that let him preach the Moses gospel (and insult Norm and several others on BJTF constantly, lol).

    What happened? At first not much. But with time, word spread that Moses had reappeared on zenzone, and a couple other forums too. Moses fame grew and his followers (really groupies, with most probably coming from BJTF)) grew to where the ruler (Norm) had a hard time controlling his minions, as they were spending more time lurking on other sites than posting on his.

    So thatís the story. Itís a story of how someone was thrown out in the wilderness by the ruthless ruler, only to come back stronger than ever with a bigger voice and following.

    All kidding aside. Keystone, I donít agree with everything Moses says, but you got to respect someone who doesnít backdown and still finds a way to get back at his former antagonist (Norm) from beyond the grave (BJTF). And you got to admit some of Moses posts are classics.
    I do?....sorry,just donít see it...I find his humor to be on the HS level myself...but hey, differing opinions are what make the world go round

  9. #49
    Originally Posted by Keystone View Post
    I do?....sorry,just donít see it...I find his humor to be on the HS level myself...but hey, differing opinions are what make the world go round
    You must be exhausted 21Forme. That was a lot of typing for you.

  10. #50
    Originally Posted by Moses View Post
    Originally Posted by Keystone View Post
    I do?....sorry,just donít see it...I find his humor to be on the HS level myself...but hey, differing opinions are what make the world go round
    You must be exhausted 21Forme. That was a lot of typing for you.
    *yawn*...sure clown

  11. #51
    Originally Posted by Keystone View Post
    *yawn*...sure clown
    Man, I'd hate to be you. All brass. No balls.

  12. #52
    An opinion piece on the topic of why some former banished members of BJTF ended up on Zen Zone.

    Everyone knows there are two sides to a story and for the most part the overwhelming consensus "at the BJTF" is that a handfull of troublemakers received what they deserved and they are just confirming what most everyone thinks anyway with their angry rants at the Zen Zone. Of course that is the easy way of dismissing it all. But a thinking man who will not settle for the simple answer, will contemplate how and why did this all happen on one board in the first place? Sure people lost their cool at some point in time and knew the inevatable result but how did it get that far?

    Simple, if the person running the show is not fully objectionable and open-minded, but instead favors someone that may coinside with his own thoughts or heaven forbid his own agenda, you have a problem. All it takes is to favor one side and silence the other without a constructive unbiased debate. If that unevenness goes on for any sygnificant amount of time the shorted side's frustration mounts to excessive degrees and the obvious happens. The person without a voice losses their composure and reacts and gets removed and labled forever as a troll or thoublemaker.

    Meanwhile, the unprofessional moderator, thats right UNPROFESSIONAL MODERATOR gets praised by most of the uninformed members. Little do they know that their uprightous hero can get down and dirty yes dirty with the best of them.

  13. #53
    Senior Member
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    Two sides to every story:

    So 2 kids end up in a fist fight on the playground. Sure, 2 sides to the story. But when one of those kids has a history of fighting with dozen of different kids, over many, many years, it is not hard to figure out who the "problem" really is.

    Bosox, before you joined, I posted a brief history of the situation. The fact is that when BJnfo shut down and most from that forum migrated to BJTF, there were concerns of Norm renewing feuds and using his position to settle old scores, of which there were many.

    Norm assured he would not do so. BUT, that is exactly what occurred.

  14. #54
    52 & 53. Two very insightful and excellent posts by Bosox and KJ. Pass me the popcorn Max.

  15. #55
    Oh yes, I cannot repost my post# 52 at BJTF to which I would prefer to be open about, but, any talking about the Zen Zone is now forbidden over there.

  16. #56
    Senior Member
    Join Date
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    2,441
    After making my earlier post today, I spent a little time thinking about the situation and recalling how things played out and I think I bear some responsibility for the failure that is BlackJack the Forum.

    Like I said, when BJinfo shut down, the membership was looking for a new home. There were a couple small temporary type forum, but we were sort of looking for a permanent type forum that would allow the core group to remain together. It was at this point that Norm Wattenberger announced that he had a paid license to the same software that BJinfo used and could set up an almost identical forum. Norm actually had a forum running linked to his QFIT software site (that is why he had the license) but that forum was completely dead. Any legitimate posters had been driven away.

    So when Norm suggested he could set up a forum (which became BJTF), like I said there were a number of members that objected. One was Automatic Monkey, a real smart AP. Others that objected were Creeping Panther, Zengrifter, Bojack, Shadrock (billryan at WoV) and several others. These were all long time players that knew Norm all too well. Zengrifter was the first banned at Norm's new site. Creeping Panther and Bojack, eventually signed on using new handles. Creeping Panther didn't hide his "new" handle too well and was quickly shown the door. Bojack, a long time very successful team manager/player, posted briefly under a new handle and then gave up. AutoMonkey and Shadroch never did migrate to BJTF that I am aware of.

    But it was me, who took Norm at his word, that things would be different and encouraged everyone to join. I made the very first post. As a matter of fact, I think I made the first half dozen posts trying to get the ball rolling and begin some good discussion. And I tried really hard at BJTF, for about 4 years, sharing my experiences until I was banned along with the others.

    And in the end I was wrong, and the guys that knew Norm best and knew he would not change were proven right. What is the definition of "insanity"? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome. I fell victim to insanity.

  17. #57
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    What is the definition of "insanity"? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome. I fell victim to insanity.
    You're not the Lone Ranger on that one.

  18. #58
    kewlJ wrote:

    "But it was me, who took Norm at his word, that things would be different and encouraged everyone to join. I made the very first post. As a matter of fact, I think I made the first half dozen posts trying to get the ball rolling and begin some good discussion. And I tried really hard at BJTF, for about 4 years, sharing my experiences until I was banned along with the others."

    When certain people become big "at least in their own eyes" they often forget where they started! Goes to character.

  19. #59
    Unfortunately, who were the big losers with all of those barrings? Of course, it is always the new players looking for sound advice and direction. Who was left standing to give most all of that advice? Well one asshole "with support of others" who is noted for saying that the Hi Low count is only for amateurs and socialites. He constantly preached "more like shoved up their ass" that the only way to survive in the game is learning to use the HI OP2 ace side count period. Some new players took that approach and periodically spoke about how they were doing and progressing. When they posted about some of their experiences I often shook my head about how very little they actually knew about casino comportmert, and how to get away with it. All of this was really sad to read about, and that was only one example of the things that often took place on that biased site. Although, once every six months or so the moderator did chime in with the words "the HI LOW count gets the money.

  20. #60
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Unfortunately, who were the big losers with all of those barrings? Of course, it is always the new players looking for sound advice and direction.?.
    Can't argue with you there Bosox. I never cared too much about newbie's. However, I respect those such as yourself who took the time to try to help. I got way to caught up in the multitude of Zee posts for awhile. Hell, I was more worried about his game this I was my own...and he didn't give a crap.


    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Who was left standing to give most all of that advice? Well one asshole "with support of others" who is noted for saying that the Hi Low count is only for amateurs and socialites. He constantly preached "more like shoved up their ass" that the only way to survive in the game is learning to use the HI OP2 ace side count period. Some new players took that approach and periodically spoke about how they were doing and progressing. When they posted about some of their experiences I often shook my head about how very little they actually knew about casino comportmert, and how to get away with it. All of this was really sad to read about, and that was only one example of the things that often took place on that biased site. Although, once every six months or so the moderator did chime in with the words "the HI LOW count gets the money.
    You covered a lot of ground in a Flash. I knew my game needed tweaking. Why? For one thing, I was getting tossed right and left. I don't mean we walked to the door together, I said bye, they said see ya later, and we shook hands before departing. They hurled my ass out like I was a frisbee.

    The problem then became I had to tighten my spread and frequency considerably and I couldn't play full indices without being preferential shuffled on for the remainder off the session and for life with some dealers. I didn't need Hi Opt II shoved up my ass because it was just a weaker version of the same thing I was already doing. My goal was to gather a collection of thoughts from others in order to form a new approach. One that allowed my hind parts to remain in the chair and be able to return.

    For instance, Bosox, IMO, has insurance high on his list of priorities. At the time, it wasn't high on my list. So, I studied and built a game plan around insurance. However, what I learned was the with limited frequency of a large bet allowed, then insurance lost it's value somewhat (in that scenario). The frustration was that every time I had a question, there was Flash and his puppets circumventing my progress. A 30 minute cup of coffee with Don S and Mr. Thorp followed by a brief trip to Gronbogs house would have saved me about 5 years of misery. Now, THAT may well be worth $3,000. But a camp? LOL

    RS came in and pitched the last couple of outs with his cake analogy. So I go into the kitchen and ask my lady all about what she is doing while she baking a cake. Where do you buy the ingredients? What makes it so moist? Would it still taste good with dog shit in it? That one didn't go over so well. I just needed that little extra boost and to realize today's game doesn't have to be as complex as T3 and others make it out to be. Keep it simple with your parts in the right places. Now, the game is easy and fun again.
    Last edited by Moses; 02-07-2019 at 09:57 AM.

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