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Thread: Identity theaf/multiple player accounts

  1. #1
    I want to reference a story on one of the blackjack forums in the last couple days, that some in the blackjack community certainly are familiar with. I am not going to link to the story, but it shouldn't be too hard to find for anyone interested. It is the sad story of an AP, that many of us know if not personally, through the community, private conversations, etc that has fallen on hard times and finds himself in some trouble.

    In fairness, many of us are not surprised by some of this as this person has and for as long as we have known him has had some issues. Strong hints of addiction problems, regarding gambling and other areas, none of which mix with advantage play. Throughout his AP career, he has been up and down, reaching great heights, and low.

    So the issue now is he has been charged with identity theft regarding the use of multiple player card accounts and false ID to get them, something that has been discussed here a little bit, which is why I bring it up. It should be noted that this is a pretty high stakes player, so the amount of money, offers, he is accused of "stealing" with multiple players card, is significant. But this is not identity theft. No one's identity was stolen. I am not all that surprised that the casino involved is bringing this case, but I am much more surprised that the District Attorney's office is actually going through with the charges. The player faces significant jail time as charged.

    I think there is an intimidation factor at play here, as the casino knows this person is down at the moment. But it now appears he is going to be hooked up with the attorney that knows just how to handle these cases, and hopefully when they get in front of a real judge, with this proper representation, things will work out for player X.

    Now the using of false ID to attain players card is a line I wouldn't and haven't crossed. But using multiple players cards is something, not only AP's but millions of casino patrons do, collecting offers on spouses, family members and friends accounts. Are the casinos going to crack down on all these patrons? No, of course not. Just the AP's.

    The first case I heard along these lines was in Pa a couple years ago. A team of AP's was charged with using multiple cards. I am not sure what happened because after the initial reports of the case hit the news, we heard nothing more. I am guessing that when attorney's got involved the case was either dropped or reduced to some smaller charge involving a fine, that the team chose to pay and move on.

    So the important thing, and why I bring this to light, is the casino industry is waging war on multiple player accounts well at least in the case of AP's.

    Oh and after this case is hopefully dismissed or reduced to something manageable, player X will have a case against the casino involved for illegally detaining him and back-rooming him. And he will be working with the right attorney for that too.

  2. #2
    Good post KwelJ. I’m pretty sure I know who it is too. It’s sad because I enjoyed the guy’s posts. He’s a very sincere person, who openly shared his experiences in casinos.

    Question: How do you know he got back roomed and illegally detained? Are you inferring this from his posts or do you have some inside information? Regardless, I’m pretty sure if the casino drops the case or reduces the charges, they’ll make him sign something so he can’t come back after them. If I was in his shoes, I’d just want it to go away and wouldn’t worry too much about counter sueing them.

  3. #3
    I believe that thread has already vanished. As predicted on the Island of No Norm.

  4. #4
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    Regardless, I’m pretty sure if the casino drops the case or reduces the charges, they’ll make him sign something so he can’t come back after them.
    So very true.

  5. #5
    If someone wants to PM me the URL of the old thread, I can try to dig it up and repost it here.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  6. #6
    Dan: Here is what I have: Feel free to delete if it's not what you wanted.


    Please anyone who is smart enough to do this as a career don’t. My life is ruined an

    Won 200k from some casino I got backed off before. Charged with identity theft and looking at 6 years in prison plus restitution. I will hang myself before that happens. I don’t have the money to pay back either and that would make the whole case go away. Last week started doing cocaine because of the pressure and maybe wanting to die and overdosed in the hospital. 30k in debt and I had 2 million before. Know I can’t get a job cause I will be a felon. My life is over, I’m either going to beat this case or end it. Sober till the outcome.

    I don’t want my life to go to waste , please if anyone in there 20 is thinking this is cool it is a path to no where. Everyone who is rich and famous Ap has a back story and most are miserable. I wish I didn’t worship them when I first came in.

    Hidden Member Name writes:


    Flash writes; I suggest that you see a board-certified psychiatrist at your first opportunity; and
    until that first appointment, you will do well to attend meeting of Alcoholics
    Anonymous and Gamblers Anonymous.

    I fully understand your desperation and depression generating self-destructive trends;
    but you need professional help in order to discover why your identity is tied to these
    escapist addictions. After decades as a psychologist, I know that at the core of your
    addictions is self-loathing coupled with obsessive thoughts and an intolerance of stress.

    Know thyself.

    That is actually pretty damn good advice. Now I see Norm wants to delete the thread? Perhaps chasing the almighty EV isn't as easy everyone makes it out to be. No two ways about it. This IS WORK.

    memoStretch your memory. We spent a few days together at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas.
    Yes, I realized that you had psychological problems, but I hardly knew you, and all that I could do was
    improve your counting. Your being drunk was very disconcerting, as you bet black rather aggressively.
    Seek professional help and put this behind you.

    Wasn't there an AP who boasted of all his winning prowess only to come clean that he wasn't a winner at all? Far better bull shitter than blackjack player. SmallCapGrowth maybe?

    Funny thing about tools. They are created to solve problems and make the job at hand easier. But if used incorrectly they do more damage than good. Blackjack should be solving issues. If the game is creating more? It's probably not worth the reward.

  7. #7
    The thing I don`t understand about the charges against him is that he said he was using a legal alias. That detail wasn`t in the opening post, but in one of the responses to someone asking questions about exactly what happened. So if he got the player`s card with a legal alias, isn`t it upon the casino at that point to figure out that the person is someone they`ve backed off before? I just don`t see how accepting comps can be considered stealing if you`re using a legal alias. KJ you seem to know more about it than what was in that thread, so I guess someone else told you more about it. If that`s the case, please let us know what happens with it. Apparently when it comes to high stakes play, the cat and mouse game turns way more dangerous. That being said, I don`t know of any other casino bringing charges against an AP quite like this. I`m no legal expert, but I think he`ll be able to get out of it seeing as how it seems that he had to have been detained against his will.

  8. #8
    Originally Posted by SplitFaceDisaster View Post
    The thing I don`t understand about the charges against him is that he said he was using a legal alias. That detail wasn`t in the opening post, but in one of the responses to someone asking questions about exactly what happened. So if he got the player`s card with a legal alias, isn`t it upon the casino at that point to figure out that the person is someone they`ve backed off before? I just don`t see how accepting comps can be considered stealing if you`re using a legal alias. KJ you seem to know more about it than what was in that thread, so I guess someone else told you more about it. If that`s the case, please let us know what happens with it. Apparently when it comes to high stakes play, the cat and mouse game turns way more dangerous. That being said, I don`t know of any other casino bringing charges against an AP quite like this. I`m no legal expert, but I think he`ll be able to get out of it seeing as how it seems that he had to have been detained against his will.
    I did some research on identity theft and now see why SmallCapGrowth is in some serious trouble.

    http://https://www.criminaldefensela...tity-theft.htm

    Casinos have lawyers too and know the law. They aren't as dumb (at least at the top) as some believe. The way I see it the problem SCG has is he used someone else's ID to come back into the casino after he was banned. He did this to deceive the casino so he could take money from them. His trouble appears to be that he won a massive amount of money ($200,000) using false ID and now the casino wants their money back. The reason it's become a felony is probably due to the amount of money the casino claimes he took from them using a false ID.

    It is not the casino's (or any other business) resonsibility to make sure you are who you claim you are. It's a person's resonsibility to show a business their valid ID. For example, when a business asks you for ID when you use your credit card, you have to show them legal ID. You can opt to not show them your ID, but then they won't let you use your credit card in their business. Playing under someone else's player's card is not the same as giving false ID. These are two totally different things.

    I know someone who was backed off and barred from some casinos and he looked into using a false ID to get back in. After he spent sometime looking into it, he decieded to not go down that road. He was surprised at high severe the pentalites could be if the casinos caught him and decided to throw the book at him.

    As far as SCG being illegally detained, I don't know what all happened, but I know a casino (or any business) has the right to detain someone if they suspect a crime was being committed. Being back roomed for indentity theft is very different from being back roomed for card counting. One is illegal, the other is not. I expect the casinos were in their rights to detain him if that's what occurred.

    I obviously don't know everything about this case, but I expect the casinos consulted their lawyers before they did what they did. It sounds like SCG was going to this casino for a while with a false ID since he won $200,000. The casino was probably ready for him that day when they caught him and threw the book at him.

    It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

  9. #9
    Bob21, I think you are Dbs6582 on BJTF, there cannot be two different people like you.

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Bob21, I think you are Dbs6582 on BJTF, there cannot be two different people like you.
    You’re right. Good deduction. When I joined here, I thought about joining as Dbs6582 but I wanted to ask Moses a legitimate question about his counting system and I knew he didn’t like me from his zenzone posts so I decided to go with another handle. I figured if I used Dbs6582, he’d probably just call me names and not give me a straight answer. Also, Dbs6582 is way too long. Don’t know why I ever typed that in as a handle.

    My handle on bj21 is bob32. This was the first forum I joined and I think Don was the first person that answered one of my questions.

    I have no reason to hide behind another handle other than that. I’m proud of all the posts I made as Dbs6582. I could tell Midwest Player probably suspected I was Dbs6582 too based on the questions he asked me as Bob21.

    I know a lot of APs and I’m an AP myself. I think many are way too uptight and let things get to them. Look at Freightman. He quite posting just because some poster (and it wasn’t me) got under his skin. Life is too short to take all this stuff so seriously.

    And I do believe casinos are much smarter than APs give them credit for. This is one of my pet peeves with APs...always calling casinos dumb. When I stick up for casinos, all the APs huddle together and call me names. It’s actually kind of funny. Many (no all) APs have a hard time seeing things from a different viewpoint.

    All is good. When Moses asked me if I was this other poster who got banned at BJTF, I was going to let him know then I was Dbs6582, but I never got around to it since I had to travel that week for week.

    This site is definitely more fun then BJTF. You have to be so careful over there. People like Don can call people names (he calls me names quite often) and get away with it. But if other people do it, Norm bans them. At least now I have a site to go to when or if Norm bans me.

  11. #11
    Bob21 wrote:

    "I have no reason to hide behind another handle other than that. I’m proud of all the posts I made as Dbs6582."

    My goodness, gracious.

  12. #12
    Bob21, you are the guy who used to often encourage the now burned out guy to post all of his weekly and monthly trips reports because you found them faciniating and educational.
    Last edited by BoSox; 02-15-2019 at 07:25 AM.

  13. #13
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Bob21, are you not the guy who used to often encourage the now burned out guy to post all of his weekly and monthly trips reports because you found them faciniating and educational?
    Probably. I like these type of posts because I find them interesting and I learn from them. I like kj’s posts on his experiences too. What wrong with that? Isn’t that part of the purpose of these forums? To share experiences so we can learn from them?

    Look Bosox, I know you’re going to have a hard time understanding this, but everybody doesn’t think the same. You seem to spend a lot of time nitpicking different people’s posts pointing out small inaccuracies or something else trivial. Don’t you have anything better to do? But if this is “your thing”, then go for it. Everybody has different things that float their boat.

  14. #14
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Bob21, are you not the guy who used to often encourage the now burned out guy to post all of his weekly and monthly trips reports because you found them faciniating and educational?
    Probably. I like these type of posts because I find them interesting and I learn from them. I like kj’s posts on his experiences too. What wrong with that? Isn’t that part of the purpose of these forums? To share experiences so we can learn from them?

    Look Bosox, I know you’re going to have a hard time understanding this, but everybody doesn’t think the same. You seem to spend a lot of time nitpicking different people’s posts pointing out small inaccuracies or something else trivial. Don’t you have anything better to do? But if this is “your thing”, then go for it. Everybody has different things that float their boat.
    I'll give you this much Bob, you are the only one over at the forum so interested in bjanalyst theories on AA78mTC side count, that 700 posts were not enough for you. You actually asked him to review certain parts again because you could not find them.

  15. #15
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Bob21, are you not the guy who used to often encourage the now burned out guy to post all of his weekly and monthly trips reports because you found them faciniating and educational?
    Probably. I like these type of posts because I find them interesting and I learn from them. I like kj’s posts on his experiences too. What wrong with that? Isn’t that part of the purpose of these forums? To share experiences so we can learn from them?

    Look Bosox, I know you’re going to have a hard time understanding this, but everybody doesn’t think the same. You seem to spend a lot of time nitpicking different people’s posts pointing out small inaccuracies or something else trivial. Don’t you have anything better to do? But if this is “your thing”, then go for it. Everybody has different things that float their boat.
    I'll give you this much Bob, you are the only one over at the forum so interested in bjanalyst theories on AA78mTC side count, that 700 posts were not enough for you. You actually asked him to revue certain parts again because you could not find them.
    Agreed. What’s wrong with that? I found it interesting that so many people, including Don, were agitated at this thread. If people didn’t like it, then don’t open it. Why is that so hard? One person asked how he could put a thread on ignore. I gave him the helpful advice to just not open it....that’s kind of the same thing as ignoring it.

    If one person is still interested in a thread and it’s not offending anybody, then I believe it should keep going. I was reading this post off and on so I missed parts of it. I was just asking bjanalyst to clarify a part I had probably missed. Sorry that bothered you. Here’s some advice: Next time when there’s a thread that bothers you, don’t open it.

    Btw, if you didn’t care for this 700 post thread, why did you keep opening and reading it? Was it so you could find some nitpicky thing you could call someone out on? Why does this type of thing “float your boat”?

    You seem to have the same problem Freightman has. You take this stuff way too seriously.

  16. #16
    Bob21 wrote:

    "Btw, if you didn’t care for this 700 post thread, why did you keep opening and reading it? Was it so you could find some nitpicky thing you could call someone out on? Why does this type of thing “float your boat”? "

    As a matter of fact I did not follow the thread continually but I do follow Don S posts. When I saw his blood pressure rising on your suggestion asking for repeated posts I busted out laughing.

  17. #17
    LMAO: I am really bad at this forum stuff. Hell Bob, you should have told me you were from Kansas. C'mon, you know that's a brotherhood. You know, back in 2010, my life turned really bad, really fast. Sort of a crossroads I never saw coming if you will. I was faced with either go to the bar or to church. Since my 19 year old daughter was with me and trying to get through college, I took church. I went to these bible studies and all that stuff. Anyway, I learned my gift is discernment.

    Now, that is a really handy tool where I live now. I can just feel things going bad around me. But it doesn't work worth a shit on these forums. I don't have a clue. I was thinking Bob may have been an old college teammate/roommate trying to get even with me. We pulled pranks on each other all the time. lol

    Geezous, how do you come up with DBS6582? I'm thinking Donald B. Schelssinger? Could be T3 using another puppet name to fuck with Don. Why choose Freighter of all people? I mean, he's a jokester, helluva nice guy, and was a world class wrestler in his day. O man. You got me. lol

    So are you a casino manager? And where in the blue thunder are you finding all these single/double deck games in Kansas? Some skank bar in Hutchinson? I'm kidding.

    LMAO as I write this. Damn, a cold bucket cold water before my first cup of coffee. Ron all over again.

  18. #18
    Originally Posted by Moses View Post
    LMAO: I am really bad at this forum stuff. Hell Bob, you should have told me you were from Kansas. C'mon, you know that's a brotherhood. You know, back in 2010, my life turned really bad, really fast. Sort of a crossroads I never saw coming if you will. I was faced with either go to the bar or to church. Since my 19 year old daughter was with me and trying to get through college, I took church. I went to these bible studies and all that stuff. Anyway, I learned my gift is discernment.

    Now, that is a really handy tool where I live now. I can just feel things going bad around me. But it doesn't work worth a shit on these forums. I don't have a clue. I was thinking Bob may have been an old college teammate/roommate trying to get even with me. We pulled pranks on each other all the time. lol

    Geezous, how do you come up with DBS6582? I'm thinking Donald B. Schelssinger? Could be T3 using another puppet name to fuck with Don. Why choose Freighter of all people? I mean, he's a jokester, helluva nice guy, and was a world class wrestler in his day. O man. You got me. lol

    So are you a casino manager? And where in the blue thunder are you finding all these single/double deck games in Kansas? Some skank bar in Hutchinson? I'm kidding.

    LMAO as I write this. Damn, a cold bucket cold water before my first cup of coffee. Ron all over again.
    Moses, I don’t live in Kansas now. I haven’t been back to Kansas in some 20 years. I’ve lived all over, spending time on the east coast, lived 7 years in Baltimore and 7 years in Connecticut (right outside of New Yor), lived in the south several places, like Houston for 7 years. Even spent time living in Chicago and California.

    Yeah, I feel a little bad about how things went south with Freightman. We both let it go a little too far. If I had to do it over, I wouldn’t have pushed his buttons so much. It was one of those things where neither one of us would back down. I’ve tried to hold out an olive branch to him, but he wants nothing of it. It’s too bad he left the forum. He shouldn’t have let one guy run him off.

    I could tell you were religious. I come from a religious background too. My parents were missionaries in Africa and my dad was a Baptist minister. I’ve strayed a little from my religious upbringing but I still believe all of it.

    As far as why I choose dbs6582, I’ve gone through this many times. I was reading something on BJTF, and there was a link I was interested in. To access this link, I had to register. When I registered a handle, I just randomly typed in some letters and numbers, not thinking I’d ever participate. Then when I became a member, I slowly got sucked in and started posting more, especially when I was bored at work. These forums are a great way to make the day go faster.

    Were some of my posts somewhat trolling? Probably, but I still meant what I said. The AP community is so high strung that anytime I said anything positive about tipping or the casinos, people would go off the deepend. It was kind of funny that they took it so seriously. Some of them need to get a sense of humor. They like putting other people down, but if someone does it to them, they all gang up on you, which never bothered me.

    Btw, I think there is an element of trolling in Zee’s post. I can tell he’s smart, but he also likes to yank people’s chains. Whenever he says he made some stupid move or played rated, he knows the AP community will come unhinged and start berating him. You can tell he enjoys it.

  19. #19
    Bob. You know, it's funny. But I had just about convinced myself you were probably a Casino Manager in that little town in Kansas. Derby, I think. Thank goodness. Next time I went to visit my brother, I was going to go in there and start yanking the poor guys chain. He'd be like WTF? I probably would've ended up in jail. lol

    Zee is a pisser all right. I can't believe there is actually a person on this earth like him. He told this story once were he was playing at 3am. Some big ole cowboy sat down beside him and was betting 10 times his amount. But Zee was on 3rd base and hit a A7 which ended up totally fucking the cowboy. I read that post to about 5 guys I hang with in the s-book. We laughed until we cried. I wish he'd post that story again. It's a classic. One might have to have lived in the Midwest to get the full gist of how people think back there. I would give 10 to 1 the cowboy had never heard of Don S.

  20. #20
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Bob21, are you not the guy who used to often encourage the now burned out guy to post all of his weekly and monthly trips reports because you found them faciniating and educational?
    Probably. I like these type of posts because I find them interesting and I learn from them. I like kj’s posts on his experiences too. What wrong with that? Isn’t that part of the purpose of these forums? To share experiences so we can learn from them?

    Look Bosox, I know you’re going to have a hard time understanding this, but everybody doesn’t think the same. You seem to spend a lot of time nitpicking different people’s posts pointing out small inaccuracies or something else trivial. Don’t you have anything better to do? But if this is “your thing”, then go for it. Everybody has different things that float their boat.
    Bob. You bring up some excellent questions. Firstly, let me say, Bosox is a straight shooter. Trust me, we've had our battles (probably because I thought he was someone else). But he is about as nice and honest guy as you will find IMO. Also, he helped me win a Red Sox bet or two.
    No, I haven't had the pleasure of meeting him. But him a steak dinner if I ever do.

    The problem is our opponents read these forums too. Now, if you go around bragging about your experiences and income? That's like telling your boss your going to play blackjack for the day instead of calling in sick. Hence, sooner or later, you're going to get canned, or in our case 86ed. Now maybe they think they are helping a newbie? In reality they are only making our job even more difficult.

    For instance, suppose I say I make $70k a year playing blackjack. Now to a Bosox, that might be chicken feed and he might tell me so...and then proceed to tell me how to make even more because that is what he and all his buddies do. That may or may not effect me directly. But suppose that casino manager in Derby is making $50k a year, trying to send his two daughters to Friends and has a son playing football that is sophomore in high school who is eating him out of house and home. He read this while he has the only 10 minutes of his day to himself. The next HiLO card counting regular that happens to stumble in with a good run? Get's 86'ed.

    I wish Norm would set a kabosh on income/loss rhetoric like he does casino cheating. History proves the games continue to decline and rules get worse. Loose lips - sink ships. Someday we'll be playing 6.5 10 deck shoes. Someone will still be claiming to make a million dollars and 5 years later someone will say. Whoops I was lying, Sorry about that. Too late. Damage was already done.

    Newbie's can fend for themselves. Either they make it or they don't. Few will. Most don't. It's what is "in them" that will make the determining factor. Not something an AP tries to instill in them.
    Last edited by Moses; 02-15-2019 at 09:58 AM.

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