Identity theaf/multiple player accounts

[kewlJ]

I want to reference a story on one of the blackjack forums in the last couple days, that some in the blackjack community certainly are familiar with. I am not going to link to the story, but it shouldn't be too hard to find for anyone interested. It is the sad story of an AP, that many of us know if not personally, through the community, private conversations, etc that has fallen on hard times and finds himself in some trouble.

In fairness, many of us are not surprised by some of this as this person has and for as long as we have known him has had some issues. Strong hints of addiction problems, regarding gambling and other areas, none of which mix with advantage play. Throughout his AP career, he has been up and down, reaching great heights, and low.

So the issue now is he has been charged with identity theft regarding the use of multiple player card accounts and false ID to get them, something that has been discussed here a little bit, which is why I bring it up. It should be noted that this is a pretty high stakes player, so the amount of money, offers, he is accused of "stealing" with multiple players card, is significant. But this is not identity theft. No one's identity was stolen. I am not all that surprised that the casino involved is bringing this case, but I am much more surprised that the District Attorney's office is actually going through with the charges. The player faces significant jail time as charged.

I think there is an intimidation factor at play here, as the casino knows this person is down at the moment. But it now appears he is going to be hooked up with the attorney that knows just how to handle these cases, and hopefully when they get in front of a real judge, with this proper representation, things will work out for player X.

Now the using of false ID to attain players card is a line I wouldn't and haven't crossed. But using multiple players cards is something, not only AP's but millions of casino patrons do, collecting offers on spouses, family members and friends accounts. Are the casinos going to crack down on all these patrons? No, of course not. Just the AP's.

The first case I heard along these lines was in Pa a couple years ago. A team of AP's was charged with using multiple cards. I am not sure what happened because after the initial reports of the case hit the news, we heard nothing more. I am guessing that when attorney's got involved the case was either dropped or reduced to some smaller charge involving a fine, that the team chose to pay and move on.

So the important thing, and why I bring this to light, is the casino industry is waging war on multiple player accounts well at least in the case of AP's.

Oh and after this case is hopefully dismissed or reduced to something manageable, player X will have a case against the casino involved for illegally detaining him and back-rooming him. And he will be working with the right attorney for that too.

[Bob21]

Good post KwelJ. I’m pretty sure I know who it is too. It’s sad because I enjoyed the guy’s posts. He’s a very sincere person, who openly shared his experiences in casinos.

Question: How do you know he got back roomed and illegally detained? Are you inferring this from his posts or do you have some inside information? Regardless, I’m pretty sure if the casino drops the case or reduces the charges, they’ll make him sign something so he can’t come back after them. If I was in his shoes, I’d just want it to go away and wouldn’t worry too much about counter sueing them.

[AxelWolf]

Regardless, I’m pretty sure if the casino drops the case or reduces the charges, they’ll make him sign something so he can’t come back after them.

So very true.

[Moses]

I believe that thread has already vanished. As predicted on the Island of No Norm.

[Dan Druff]

If someone wants to PM me the URL of the old thread, I can try to dig it up and repost it here.

[Moses]

Dan: Here is what I have: Feel free to delete if it's not what you wanted.


Please anyone who is smart enough to do this as a career don’t. My life is ruined an

Won 200k from some casino I got backed off before. Charged with identity theft and looking at 6 years in prison plus restitution. I will hang myself before that happens. I don’t have the money to pay back either and that would make the whole case go away. Last week started doing cocaine because of the pressure and maybe wanting to die and overdosed in the hospital. 30k in debt and I had 2 million before. Know I can’t get a job cause I will be a felon. My life is over, I’m either going to beat this case or end it. Sober till the outcome.

I don’t want my life to go to waste , please if anyone in there 20 is thinking this is cool it is a path to no where. Everyone who is rich and famous Ap has a back story and most are miserable. I wish I didn’t worship them when I first came in.

Hidden Member Name writes:


Flash writes; I suggest that you see a board-certified psychiatrist at your first opportunity; and
until that first appointment, you will do well to attend meeting of Alcoholics
Anonymous and Gamblers Anonymous.

I fully understand your desperation and depression generating self-destructive trends;
but you need professional help in order to discover why your identity is tied to these
escapist addictions. After decades as a psychologist, I know that at the core of your
addictions is self-loathing coupled with obsessive thoughts and an intolerance of stress.

Know thyself.

That is actually pretty damn good advice. Now I see Norm wants to delete the thread? Perhaps chasing the almighty EV isn't as easy everyone makes it out to be. No two ways about it. This IS WORK.

memoStretch your memory. We spent a few days together at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas.
Yes, I realized that you had psychological problems, but I hardly knew you, and all that I could do was
improve your counting. Your being drunk was very disconcerting, as you bet black rather aggressively.
Seek professional help and put this behind you.

Wasn't there an AP who boasted of all his winning prowess only to come clean that he wasn't a winner at all? Far better bull shitter than blackjack player. SmallCapGrowth maybe?

Funny thing about tools. They are created to solve problems and make the job at hand easier. But if used incorrectly they do more damage than good. Blackjack should be solving issues. If the game is creating more? It's probably not worth the reward.

[SplitFaceDisaster]

The thing I don`t understand about the charges against him is that he said he was using a legal alias. That detail wasn`t in the opening post, but in one of the responses to someone asking questions about exactly what happened. So if he got the player`s card with a legal alias, isn`t it upon the casino at that point to figure out that the person is someone they`ve backed off before? I just don`t see how accepting comps can be considered stealing if you`re using a legal alias. KJ you seem to know more about it than what was in that thread, so I guess someone else told you more about it. If that`s the case, please let us know what happens with it. Apparently when it comes to high stakes play, the cat and mouse game turns way more dangerous. That being said, I don`t know of any other casino bringing charges against an AP quite like this. I`m no legal expert, but I think he`ll be able to get out of it seeing as how it seems that he had to have been detained against his will.

[Bob21]

The thing I don`t understand about the charges against him is that he said he was using a legal alias. That detail wasn`t in the opening post, but in one of the responses to someone asking questions about exactly what happened. So if he got the player`s card with a legal alias, isn`t it upon the casino at that point to figure out that the person is someone they`ve backed off before? I just don`t see how accepting comps can be considered stealing if you`re using a legal alias. KJ you seem to know more about it than what was in that thread, so I guess someone else told you more about it. If that`s the case, please let us know what happens with it. Apparently when it comes to high stakes play, the cat and mouse game turns way more dangerous. That being said, I don`t know of any other casino bringing charges against an AP quite like this. I`m no legal expert, but I think he`ll be able to get out of it seeing as how it seems that he had to have been detained against his will.

I did some research on identity theft and now see why SmallCapGrowth is in some serious trouble.

http://https://www.criminaldefensela...tity-theft.htm

Casinos have lawyers too and know the law. They aren't as dumb (at least at the top) as some believe. The way I see it the problem SCG has is he used someone else's ID to come back into the casino after he was banned. He did this to deceive the casino so he could take money from them. His trouble appears to be that he won a massive amount of money ($200,000) using false ID and now the casino wants their money back. The reason it's become a felony is probably due to the amount of money the casino claimes he took from them using a false ID.

It is not the casino's (or any other business) resonsibility to make sure you are who you claim you are. It's a person's resonsibility to show a business their valid ID. For example, when a business asks you for ID when you use your credit card, you have to show them legal ID. You can opt to not show them your ID, but then they won't let you use your credit card in their business. Playing under someone else's player's card is not the same as giving false ID. These are two totally different things.

I know someone who was backed off and barred from some casinos and he looked into using a false ID to get back in. After he spent sometime looking into it, he decieded to not go down that road. He was surprised at high severe the pentalites could be if the casinos caught him and decided to throw the book at him.

As far as SCG being illegally detained, I don't know what all happened, but I know a casino (or any business) has the right to detain someone if they suspect a crime was being committed. Being back roomed for indentity theft is very different from being back roomed for card counting. One is illegal, the other is not. I expect the casinos were in their rights to detain him if that's what occurred.

I obviously don't know everything about this case, but I expect the casinos consulted their lawyers before they did what they did. It sounds like SCG was going to this casino for a while with a false ID since he won $200,000. The casino was probably ready for him that day when they caught him and threw the book at him.

It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

[SplitFaceDisaster]

The thing I don`t understand about the charges against him is that he said he was using a legal alias. That detail wasn`t in the opening post, but in one of the responses to someone asking questions about exactly what happened. So if he got the player`s card with a legal alias, isn`t it upon the casino at that point to figure out that the person is someone they`ve backed off before? I just don`t see how accepting comps can be considered stealing if you`re using a legal alias. KJ you seem to know more about it than what was in that thread, so I guess someone else told you more about it. If that`s the case, please let us know what happens with it. Apparently when it comes to high stakes play, the cat and mouse game turns way more dangerous. That being said, I don`t know of any other casino bringing charges against an AP quite like this. I`m no legal expert, but I think he`ll be able to get out of it seeing as how it seems that he had to have been detained against his will.

I did some research on identity theft and now see why SmallCapGrowth is in some serious trouble.

http://https://www.criminaldefensela...tity-theft.htm

Casinos have lawyers too and know the law. They aren't as dumb (at least at the top) as some believe. The way I see it the problem SCG has is he used someone else's ID to come back into the casino after he was banned. He did this to deceive the casino so he could take money from them. His trouble appears to be that he won a massive amount of money ($200,000) using false ID and now the casino wants their money back. The reason it's become a felony is probably due to the amount of money the casino claimes he took from them using a false ID.

It is not the casino's (or any other business) resonsibility to make sure you are who you claim you are. It's a person's resonsibility to show a business their valid ID. For example, when a business asks you for ID when you use your credit card, you have to show them legal ID. You can opt to not show them your ID, but then they won't let you use your credit card in their business. Playing under someone else's player's card is not the same as giving false ID. These are two totally different things.

I know someone who was backed off and barred from some casinos and he looked into using a false ID to get back in. After he spent sometime looking into it, he decieded to not go down that road. He was surprised at high severe the pentalites could be if the casinos caught him and decided to throw the book at him.

As far as SCG being illegally detained, I don't know what all happened, but I know a casino (or any business) has the right to detain someone if they suspect a crime was being committed. Being back roomed for indentity theft is very different from being back roomed for card counting. One is illegal, the other is not. I expect the casinos were in their rights to detain him if that's what occurred.

I obviously don't know everything about this case, but I expect the casinos consulted their lawyers before they did what they did. It sounds like SCG was going to this casino for a while with a false ID since he won $200,000. The casino was probably ready for him that day when they caught him and threw the book at him.

It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

You have some good points here, like about how detaining him could be justified. However, what I was saying was that since he said "legal alias", I figured that meant he had gone through some sort of legal name change and signed up with a player`s card with that name. Anyway, who knows, we don`t know all the details so all of us are just speculating for the most part.

[Bob21]

[QUOTE=SplitFaceDisaster;83439][QUOTE=Bob21;83375]

You have some good points here, like about how detaining him could be justified. However, what I was saying was that since he said "legal alias", I figured that meant he had gone through some sort of legal name change and signed up with a player`s card with that name. Anyway, who knows, we don`t know all the details so all of us are just speculating for the most part.

When he said “legal alias”, I took it to mean the person’s ID he used was legal and probably even let him use it to get a player’s card. He didn’t just get a fake ID through some internet site who sells fake IDs. Maybe I’m wrong but this was my interpretation.

If he did what you say, then I agree he shouldn’t be having a problem. He has NOT stole anybody’s ID! However, if this was the case, then I don’t think he’d be in such a desperate situation.

After reading the link I attached I see where the casino is coming from. In their view, an identity has been stolen to try to take advantage of them. That’s a crime. It doesn’t matter if someone gave SCG their ID freely or he stole it.

I obviously don’t know what happened, but based on the severity of the charges I expect this went through a lot of levels at the casino before they made their move.

Ever since 9/11 our country has stiffened up our laws on ID theft and using false IDs. It’s obviously meant to combat terrorism but it looks like casinos are finding a way use these laws against APs who use false IDs. I have read on different internet sites that APs said they would never do today what was done before 9/11 for this reason.

The bottom line is we are a nation of laws and even APs need to obey the laws. I really hope things work out for him.

[tableplay]

The bottom line is we are a nation of laws and even APs need to obey the laws.

At least here in the United States, it seems to me, based on personal observation, that the purpose of laws is to protect the Rich from the "Poor" (everyone else).

[BoSox]

Bob21, I think you are Dbs6582 on BJTF, there cannot be two different people like you.

[Bob21]

Bob21, I think you are Dbs6582 on BJTF, there cannot be two different people like you.

You’re right. Good deduction. When I joined here, I thought about joining as Dbs6582 but I wanted to ask Moses a legitimate question about his counting system and I knew he didn’t like me from his zenzone posts so I decided to go with another handle. I figured if I used Dbs6582, he’d probably just call me names and not give me a straight answer. Also, Dbs6582 is way too long. Don’t know why I ever typed that in as a handle.

My handle on bj21 is bob32. This was the first forum I joined and I think Don was the first person that answered one of my questions.

I have no reason to hide behind another handle other than that. I’m proud of all the posts I made as Dbs6582. I could tell Midwest Player probably suspected I was Dbs6582 too based on the questions he asked me as Bob21.

I know a lot of APs and I’m an AP myself. I think many are way too uptight and let things get to them. Look at Freightman. He quite posting just because some poster (and it wasn’t me) got under his skin. Life is too short to take all this stuff so seriously.

And I do believe casinos are much smarter than APs give them credit for. This is one of my pet peeves with APs...always calling casinos dumb. When I stick up for casinos, all the APs huddle together and call me names. It’s actually kind of funny. Many (no all) APs have a hard time seeing things from a different viewpoint.

All is good. When Moses asked me if I was this other poster who got banned at BJTF, I was going to let him know then I was Dbs6582, but I never got around to it since I had to travel that week for week.

This site is definitely more fun then BJTF. You have to be so careful over there. People like Don can call people names (he calls me names quite often) and get away with it. But if other people do it, Norm bans them. At least now I have a site to go to when or if Norm bans me.

[BoSox]

Bob21 wrote:

"I have no reason to hide behind another handle other than that. I’m proud of all the posts I made as Dbs6582."

My goodness, gracious.

[Moses]

All is good. When Moses asked me if I was this other poster who got banned at BJTF, I was going to let him know then I was Dbs6582, but I never got around to it since I had to travel that week for week..

What ever happened to Exoter 175? I always liked that kid. His wisdom seemed way beyond his age IMO. I figured his pen handle was after his hometown, but never got around to asking him before he got banned. Another Midwesterner. Then it was like he dropped off the face of the earth.

[mickeycrimm]

What ever happened to Exoter 175? I always liked that kid. His wisdom seemed way beyond his age IMO. I figured his pen handle was after his hometown, but never got around to asking him before he got banned. Another Midwesterner. Then it was like he dropped off the face of the earth.

I had quite the feud with him at Gambling Forums. His ego is about ten times bigger than his IQ. He didn't like me writing about vulturable games on the internet. After learning some things about him I can see why. He's still operating. I know people from Kansas that work the Oklahoma blackjack and vulturable machines. That's where I met them. I got told some things about him. He gets newbies to sign a contract and teaches them the vulturable games. He gets a percentage of their earn. On Gambling Forums he called these people his employee's but never said anything about contracts. If he can get away with that then more power to him. But the people that signed those contracts are as stupid as they come. Vulturing machines is childs play and requires no bankroll. You got a few hundred in your pocket? You're good to go. So exoter don't want me teaching anything but it's okay for him to teach? Get the fuck out.

And what do the people that know him think about him? A hothead that accuses and threatens people. He's bad news.

[blackhole]

A hothead that accuses and threatens people. He's bad news.

Now that's some funny shit coming from empty-head. This post is coming from the same idiot that threatened to kill Shack, and pop a cap into anyone's ass who ever challenged his claims. I can't even guess how many times he threatened and challenged me.

[Moses]

What ever happened to Exoter 175? I always liked that kid. His wisdom seemed way beyond his age IMO. I figured his pen handle was after his hometown, but never got around to asking him before he got banned. Another Midwesterner. Then it was like he dropped off the face of the earth.

I had quite the feud with him at Gambling Forums. His ego is about ten times bigger than his IQ. He didn't like me writing about vulturable games on the internet. After learning some things about him I can see why. He's still operating. I know people from Kansas that work the Oklahoma blackjack and vulturable machines. That's where I met them. I got told some things about him. He gets newbies to sign a contract and teaches them the vulturable games. He gets a percentage of their earn. On Gambling Forums he called these people his employee's but never said anything about contracts. If he can get away with that then more power to him. But the people that signed those contracts are as stupid as they come. Vulturing machines is childs play and requires no bankroll. You got a few hundred in your pocket? You're good to go. So exoter don't want me teaching anything but it's okay for him to teach? Get the fuck out.

And what do the people that know him think about him? A hothead that accuses and threatens people. He's bad news.

Whoa. Thanks for the input. I read him as a young man who had a lot "in" him. Perhaps just a wee bit outside. lol I think I need to see people in order for my best instincts to kick in. These forums are like deer hunting with Ray Charles.

[BoSox]

Bob21, you are the guy who used to often encourage the now burned out guy to post all of his weekly and monthly trips reports because you found them faciniating and educational.

[Bob21]

Bob21, are you not the guy who used to often encourage the now burned out guy to post all of his weekly and monthly trips reports because you found them faciniating and educational?

Probably. I like these type of posts because I find them interesting and I learn from them. I like kj’s posts on his experiences too. What wrong with that? Isn’t that part of the purpose of these forums? To share experiences so we can learn from them?

Look Bosox, I know you’re going to have a hard time understanding this, but everybody doesn’t think the same. You seem to spend a lot of time nitpicking different people’s posts pointing out small inaccuracies or something else trivial. Don’t you have anything better to do? But if this is “your thing”, then go for it. Everybody has different things that float their boat.