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Thread: Identity theaf/multiple player accounts

  1. #41
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    Originally Posted by SplitFaceDisaster View Post
    The thing I don`t understand about the charges against him is that he said he was using a legal alias. That detail wasn`t in the opening post, but in one of the responses to someone asking questions about exactly what happened. So if he got the player`s card with a legal alias, isn`t it upon the casino at that point to figure out that the person is someone they`ve backed off before? I just don`t see how accepting comps can be considered stealing if you`re using a legal alias. KJ you seem to know more about it than what was in that thread, so I guess someone else told you more about it. If that`s the case, please let us know what happens with it. Apparently when it comes to high stakes play, the cat and mouse game turns way more dangerous. That being said, I don`t know of any other casino bringing charges against an AP quite like this. I`m no legal expert, but I think he`ll be able to get out of it seeing as how it seems that he had to have been detained against his will.
    I did some research on identity theft and now see why SmallCapGrowth is in some serious trouble.

    http://https://www.criminaldefensela...tity-theft.htm

    Casinos have lawyers too and know the law. They aren't as dumb (at least at the top) as some believe. The way I see it the problem SCG has is he used someone else's ID to come back into the casino after he was banned. He did this to deceive the casino so he could take money from them. His trouble appears to be that he won a massive amount of money ($200,000) using false ID and now the casino wants their money back. The reason it's become a felony is probably due to the amount of money the casino claimes he took from them using a false ID.

    It is not the casino's (or any other business) resonsibility to make sure you are who you claim you are. It's a person's resonsibility to show a business their valid ID. For example, when a business asks you for ID when you use your credit card, you have to show them legal ID. You can opt to not show them your ID, but then they won't let you use your credit card in their business. Playing under someone else's player's card is not the same as giving false ID. These are two totally different things.

    I know someone who was backed off and barred from some casinos and he looked into using a false ID to get back in. After he spent sometime looking into it, he decieded to not go down that road. He was surprised at high severe the pentalites could be if the casinos caught him and decided to throw the book at him.

    As far as SCG being illegally detained, I don't know what all happened, but I know a casino (or any business) has the right to detain someone if they suspect a crime was being committed. Being back roomed for indentity theft is very different from being back roomed for card counting. One is illegal, the other is not. I expect the casinos were in their rights to detain him if that's what occurred.

    I obviously don't know everything about this case, but I expect the casinos consulted their lawyers before they did what they did. It sounds like SCG was going to this casino for a while with a false ID since he won $200,000. The casino was probably ready for him that day when they caught him and threw the book at him.

    It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.
    You have some good points here, like about how detaining him could be justified. However, what I was saying was that since he said "legal alias", I figured that meant he had gone through some sort of legal name change and signed up with a player`s card with that name. Anyway, who knows, we don`t know all the details so all of us are just speculating for the most part.

  2. #42
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    Originally Posted by JSTAT View Post
    Have won big in real casino play over 30 years card counting.
    I have no clue about any of that.

    Why wast time making videos, educating people and talking about it? Why not just go quietly make millions off the casinos?
    +1. Actually when it comes to blackjack, my opinion is whatever, casinos know it`s countable. However, if you have a counting system for a baccarat side bet that can make serious money, to share it I think would be absolutely ludicrous. You wouldn`t necessarily never get caught doing it, however casinos aren`t looking for it (at least as much as they are for card counting blackjack), so you could really do some damage.

  3. #43
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    I do think people give Thorp way too much credit for somehow cracking the bj puzzle. It wasn’t like the greatest minds in the world were working on this. .
    He got to view 45 to 51 cards in a single deck quite often. I get a warm fuzzy feeling if I get a dealer going 35 deep. As you say, he "cracked" the puzzle.

    What puzzle? The underlying story all those who didn't. Don S was like 12 then. But that's not to say he wasn't working on it. Norm was smoking doobies, hanging out in joints with brothers and listening to Jimmy Hendricks. Or was it toking joints and listening to Doobie Brothers. Either way. Let's hope he wasn't working on it.

  4. #44
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    Originally Posted by JSTAT View Post
    Have won big in real casino play over 30 years card counting.
    I have no clue about any of that.

    Why wast time making videos, educating people and talking about it? Why not just go quietly make millions off the casinos?

    I played when the stress at the post office was too much. Someone had to pay. About every 2-3 months, I'd win a few grand playing 8-10 hour sessions to relieve the stress. I took early retirement from the USPS in 2009 and decided to share my casino experience on YouTube. I'm burned out of going to casinos frequently, so why not help others?
    JSTAT on casinos, poker, and blackjack/baccarat card counting without charge. Saying what needs to said at https://twitter.com/Casino_Examiner

  5. #45
    Originally Posted by JSTAT View Post
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    Originally Posted by JSTAT View Post
    Have won big in real casino play over 30 years card counting.
    I have no clue about any of that.

    Why wast time making videos, educating people and talking about it? Why not just go quietly make millions off the casinos?

    I played when the stress at the post office was too much. Someone had to pay. About every 2-3 months, I'd win a few grand playing 8-10 hour sessions to relieve the stress. I took early retirement from the USPS in 2009 and decided to share my casino experience on YouTube. I'm burned out of going to casinos frequently, so why not help others?
    So a smart guy like you can't figure out how to take somome under their wing and teach him or her how to crush the casinos? Bank them and split the profits? This is some of the stuff doesn't make sence to me. By now you should have an entire team traveling the world making bank for you. Show me where I can flip some quarters with a world wide 24/7 365 advantage and ill get a good team put together.

    I hate to bring Rob Singers name into this. But he claims to have this fool(full of it) proof system for VP. Yet he just put fucks around with it.

    You are all brilliant with the keys to the casinos and yet you guys can't figure out how to make gobs of money from it for you and others you love and are friends with.

  6. #46
    Originally Posted by Moses View Post
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Bob21, are you not the guy who used to often encourage the now burned out guy to post all of his weekly and monthly trips reports because you found them faciniating and educational?
    Probably. I like these type of posts because I find them interesting and I learn from them. I like kj’s posts on his experiences too. What wrong with that? Isn’t that part of the purpose of these forums? To share experiences so we can learn from them?

    Look Bosox, I know you’re going to have a hard time understanding this, but everybody doesn’t think the same. You seem to spend a lot of time nitpicking different people’s posts pointing out small inaccuracies or something else trivial. Don’t you have anything better to do? But if this is “your thing”, then go for it. Everybody has different things that float their boat.
    Bob. You bring up some excellent questions. Firstly, let me say, Bosox is a straight shooter. Trust me, we've had our battles (probably because I thought he was someone else). But he is about as nice and honest guy as you will find IMO. Also, he helped me win a Red Sox bet or two.
    No, I haven't had the pleasure of meeting him. But him a steak dinner if I ever do.

    The problem is our opponents read these forums too. Now, if you go around bragging about your experiences and income? That's like telling your boss your going to play blackjack for the day instead of calling in sick. Hence, sooner or later, you're going to get canned, or in our case 86ed. Now maybe they think they are helping a newbie? In reality they are only making our job even more difficult.

    For instance, suppose I say I make $70k a year playing blackjack. Now to a Bosox, that might be chicken feed and he might tell me so...and then proceed to tell me how to make even more because that is what he and all his buddies do. That may or may not effect me directly. But suppose that casino manager in Derby is making $50k a year, trying to send his two daughters to Friends and has a son playing football that is sophomore in high school who is eating him out of house and home. He read this while he has the only 10 minutes of his day to himself. The next HiLO card counting regular that happens to stumble in with a good run? Get's 86'ed.

    I wish Norm would set a kabosh on income/loss rhetoric like he does casino cheating. History proves the games continue to decline and rules get worse. Loose lips - sink ships. Someday we'll be playing 6.5 10 deck shoes. Someone will still be claiming to make a million dollars and 5 years later someone will say. Whoops I was lying, Sorry about that. Too late. Damage was already done.

    Newbie's can fend for themselves. Either they make it or they don't. Few will. Most don't. It's what is "in them" that will make the determining factor. Not something an AP tries to instill in them.

    Moses, thanks for the kind words. My own blackjack play is now mainly from a part time perspective, but I still take it very seriously. Nice post by the way, which I agree with all your points about keeping your business private on a public forum. I almost missed your post as I am still getting used to these long pages.

  7. #47
    [QUOTE=SplitFaceDisaster;83439][QUOTE=Bob21;83375]
    Originally Posted by SplitFaceDisaster View Post
    You have some good points here, like about how detaining him could be justified. However, what I was saying was that since he said "legal alias", I figured that meant he had gone through some sort of legal name change and signed up with a player`s card with that name. Anyway, who knows, we don`t know all the details so all of us are just speculating for the most part.
    When he said “legal alias”, I took it to mean the person’s ID he used was legal and probably even let him use it to get a player’s card. He didn’t just get a fake ID through some internet site who sells fake IDs. Maybe I’m wrong but this was my interpretation.

    If he did what you say, then I agree he shouldn’t be having a problem. He has NOT stole anybody’s ID! However, if this was the case, then I don’t think he’d be in such a desperate situation.

    After reading the link I attached I see where the casino is coming from. In their view, an identity has been stolen to try to take advantage of them. That’s a crime. It doesn’t matter if someone gave SCG their ID freely or he stole it.

    I obviously don’t know what happened, but based on the severity of the charges I expect this went through a lot of levels at the casino before they made their move.

    Ever since 9/11 our country has stiffened up our laws on ID theft and using false IDs. It’s obviously meant to combat terrorism but it looks like casinos are finding a way use these laws against APs who use false IDs. I have read on different internet sites that APs said they would never do today what was done before 9/11 for this reason.

    The bottom line is we are a nation of laws and even APs need to obey the laws. I really hope things work out for him.

  8. #48
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    All is good. When Moses asked me if I was this other poster who got banned at BJTF, I was going to let him know then I was Dbs6582, but I never got around to it since I had to travel that week for week..
    What ever happened to Exoter 175? I always liked that kid. His wisdom seemed way beyond his age IMO. I figured his pen handle was after his hometown, but never got around to asking him before he got banned. Another Midwesterner. Then it was like he dropped off the face of the earth.

  9. #49
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    The bottom line is we are a nation of laws and even APs need to obey the laws.
    At least here in the United States, it seems to me, based on personal observation, that the purpose of laws is to protect the Rich from the "Poor" (everyone else).

  10. #50
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post

    Btw, I bought Ed Thorp’s book but I’m having a hard time getting through it, since it’s basically liberalism 101 sprinkled throughout it. The more I’ve learned about Ed Thorp, the lower my opinion. I feel bad saying this since he’s made out to be a God-like figure in the bj community. But from what I can tell he’s somewhat of a nut case. Here’s a guy who thinks he can defy death by having his body put on ice so he can be brought back to life at a later time when science has advanced. I’m not making this up. He’s in for a rude awakening when he dies. He won’t be woke up by some mad scientist in the distant future. He’ll be meeting God.
    His book on warrants (predecessor to stock options), "Beat the Market" was decent back in the day, and I'm sure some folks made money using the concepts in it back at that time.

  11. #51
    Bob21 Wrote:


    "I think the AP community (especially Three) is over paranoid about what is posted on these forums. I think APs are fairly low down on the casinos list of things they worry about, at least in my area. Casinos are more worried about what to do to get more business, how to compete with the latest casinos that just opened up down the block, etc.

    Yeah, you’re right the games have deteriorated over time, but I doubt if that’s due to the forums."

    Bob, It is very interesting that you bring Three into this discussion about his paranoia of casino lurkers following BJ boards. You are only getting the latest installment of the current Three mindset, as you are late to the table "as being relatively new to the forum" you missed the previous version of Three's antics, and it brings nothing but IRONY into the picture. Prior to your arrival at the forum the experimenting
    professor of BJ theory developed his own system that was showing extraordinary results and let's just say he became a little overzealous, to say the least. Wanting to disclose to the community about all his good fortune and positive variance he began his story. In numerous blackjack threads, we heard all about his great results he was having. Surprisingly he was doing all of this success in short session time frames, with very little negative variance. Personally, at the time I was not sure if he was trying to upstage Thorp's beat the dealer.

    Surely the casinos would react quickly, "but, I know Bob, you are now groaning thinking that they do not read the boards" considering he was also claiming his results were extraordinary. Eventually the variance evened itself out and his results showed a more normalized gain. All through the ordeal he had doubters who disbelieved him, mainly KJ "who got booted from the site" paid the steep price with little vindication, Three later admitting that his experiment was actually on Spanish 21 games which he wanted to keep as a secret honey hole. Bob, while all of that was going on I spoke my piece but, I used to cringe thinking what Three's words were doing for the future of the game itself. Funny thing, Three is now an advocate for less disclosure. Although in your demented mind there was and is nothing to worry about anyway as no casino personnel was and are reading that sickly run board anyway.
    Last edited by BoSox; 02-16-2019 at 04:49 AM.

  12. #52
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Although in your demented mind there was and is nothing to worry about anyway as no casino personnel was and are reading that sickly run board anyway.
    Bosox, I never said you should never worry about casinos reading these forums. I actually do worry some, and believe it or not, am careful on what I revel on these forums. I don’t revel specifics and when something unique happens, I wait to post it and change the facts slightly.

    I know some pit boss who participates on these forums. They mostly participate to troll. They think it’s funny. Since many APs are so serious and paranoid, they are easy to rattle.

    For the most part, the rank and file casino employees don’t make that much. They have other things to do with their life. They aren’t coming on these forums trying to learn the latest AP move.

    As far as kJ, I don’t see a problem doing what he does, meaning sharing general information about his experiences. You do. That’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it. Vegas casinos know there are a lot of people like kJ out there. I’ve read Kj’s posts from a casino’s viewpoint and have never seen anything that would help me identify a counter. It’s all very general information.

    Yes, Zee is more specific with his information and I know people have advised him not to be, but it hasn’t really hurt him. I agree with Zee in that he would have been banned and databased eventually playing rated or unrated in his local area. He played too long, too often and in too few casinos for this not to happen. The surprising thing is that it didn’t happen sooner. And as he says often, it hasn’t hurt him when he travels, even when he plays at sister properties. I know this burns people up when he says this, I believe him since it agrees with my experiences.

    Btw, I get much more information from the GWAE podcasts on how casino thinks than on these forums. Mutchkin has had some excellent surveillance people on. One was Willy (I think that’s his name) and he’s from Australia. Btw, he says some of the casino staff are APs on the side.

    Bosox, I do sense that you have some pent up frustration in you, since you like to constantly corrrect people. Sometimes I feel like you think your role is to be the school teacher on these forums, always pointing out little inaccuracies in people’s posts, or trying to play “gotcha”. For me, it gets old after a while. You appear to be a very negative person.

    When you said “your demented mind”, don’t you think that’s a little over the top? Even if I’m wrong about feeling posting casino experiences is not that big of a deal, don’t you think calling someone “demented” is probably the wrong choose of words? It didn’t really bother me but I found it strange.

    Here’s something to think about: People can have different viewpoints on something and that doesn’t make either one of them “demented”.
    Last edited by Bob21; 02-16-2019 at 06:15 AM.

  13. #53
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    Originally Posted by JSTAT View Post
    Have won big in real casino play over 30 years card counting.
    I have no clue about any of that.

    Why wast time making videos, educating people and talking about it? Why not just go quietly make millions off the casinos?
    He doesn't have enough time to do that because of his day job.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  14. #54
    Originally Posted by Moses View Post
    What ever happened to Exoter 175? I always liked that kid. His wisdom seemed way beyond his age IMO. I figured his pen handle was after his hometown, but never got around to asking him before he got banned. Another Midwesterner. Then it was like he dropped off the face of the earth.
    I had quite the feud with him at Gambling Forums. His ego is about ten times bigger than his IQ. He didn't like me writing about vulturable games on the internet. After learning some things about him I can see why. He's still operating. I know people from Kansas that work the Oklahoma blackjack and vulturable machines. That's where I met them. I got told some things about him. He gets newbies to sign a contract and teaches them the vulturable games. He gets a percentage of their earn. On Gambling Forums he called these people his employee's but never said anything about contracts. If he can get away with that then more power to him. But the people that signed those contracts are as stupid as they come. Vulturing machines is childs play and requires no bankroll. You got a few hundred in your pocket? You're good to go. So exoter don't want me teaching anything but it's okay for him to teach? Get the fuck out.

    And what do the people that know him think about him? A hothead that accuses and threatens people. He's bad news.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  15. #55
    Originally Posted by tableplay View Post
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post

    Btw, I bought Ed Thorp’s book but I’m having a hard time getting through it, since it’s basically liberalism 101 sprinkled throughout it. The more I’ve learned about Ed Thorp, the lower my opinion. I feel bad saying this since he’s made out to be a God-like figure in the bj community. But from what I can tell he’s somewhat of a nut case. Here’s a guy who thinks he can defy death by having his body put on ice so he can be brought back to life at a later time when science has advanced. I’m not making this up. He’s in for a rude awakening when he dies. He won’t be woke up by some mad scientist in the distant future. He’ll be meeting God.
    His book on warrants (predecessor to stock options), "Beat the Market" was decent back in the day, and I'm sure some folks made money using the concepts in it back at that time.
    You’re probably right. Anything works short term, and being successful in the market over a 10 to 20 year time period is the short term.

    Ed’s strategies were and are very risky. They worked when the market was stable, which our markets are most the time. But when they are not, which happens with any dynamic market, these strategies can cause you to go bankrupt. Look at Lemons Brothers. Many other brokerage firms and banks would have gone under had our government (us taxpayers) not stepped in and bailed them out. They make risky bets, and when those bets fail, we bail them out.

    I know Thorp is a very wealthy man, but I also know he got hurt during the financial collapse in 2008. Why? Because he was in high risk hedge funds that were highly leveraged. In a recent interview, Ed said he still hasn’t regained all the money he lost in 2008, and now its 11 years later. So all this talk about Ed Thorp making 20% year over year with his system is hogwash, and that’s the clean version.

    The bottom line is there isn’t some majic math formula that will make you money in the markets. Our markets are little too complicated for that. Math cannot predict the future. It’s not like bj.

  16. #56
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post

    Bob, It is very interesting that you bring Three into this discussion about his paranoia of casino lurkers following BJ boards. You are only getting the latest installment of the current Three mindset, as you are late to the table "as being relatively new to the forum" you missed the previous version of Three's antics, and it brings nothing but IRONY into the picture. Prior to your arrival at the forum the experimenting
    professor of BJ theory developed his own system that was showing extraordinary results and let's just say he became a little overzealous, to say the least. Wanting to disclose to the community about all his good fortune and positive variance he began his story. In numerous blackjack threads, we heard all about his great results he was having. Surprisingly he was doing all of this success in short session time frames, with very little negative variance. Personally, at the time I was not sure if he was trying to upstage Thorp's beat the dealer.
    Btw, have you noticed Three is a dice expert too? I found his latest posts on dice control interesting on how he can control the axis of their spin. He never ceases to amaze me. I was going to make some sarcastic comment when I saw him make all his dice control posts, but I thought better of it and refrained.

    I thought I might see Moses bring this up on Zenzone. This is some good stuff to run with...three, the dice control guru. The man is truelly jack of all trades when it comes to APing.

  17. #57
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    A hothead that accuses and threatens people. He's bad news.
    Now that's some funny shit coming from empty-head. This post is coming from the same idiot that threatened to kill Shack, and pop a cap into anyone's ass who ever challenged his claims. I can't even guess how many times he threatened and challenged me.

  18. #58
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by Moses View Post
    What ever happened to Exoter 175? I always liked that kid. His wisdom seemed way beyond his age IMO. I figured his pen handle was after his hometown, but never got around to asking him before he got banned. Another Midwesterner. Then it was like he dropped off the face of the earth.
    I had quite the feud with him at Gambling Forums. His ego is about ten times bigger than his IQ. He didn't like me writing about vulturable games on the internet. After learning some things about him I can see why. He's still operating. I know people from Kansas that work the Oklahoma blackjack and vulturable machines. That's where I met them. I got told some things about him. He gets newbies to sign a contract and teaches them the vulturable games. He gets a percentage of their earn. On Gambling Forums he called these people his employee's but never said anything about contracts. If he can get away with that then more power to him. But the people that signed those contracts are as stupid as they come. Vulturing machines is childs play and requires no bankroll. You got a few hundred in your pocket? You're good to go. So exoter don't want me teaching anything but it's okay for him to teach? Get the fuck out.

    And what do the people that know him think about him? A hothead that accuses and threatens people. He's bad news.
    Whoa. Thanks for the input. I read him as a young man who had a lot "in" him. Perhaps just a wee bit outside. lol I think I need to see people in order for my best instincts to kick in. These forums are like deer hunting with Ray Charles.
    Last edited by Moses; 02-16-2019 at 09:35 AM.

  19. #59
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    Btw, have you noticed Three is a dice expert too? I found his latest posts on dice control interesting on how he can control the axis of their spin. He never ceases to amaze me. I was going to make some sarcastic comment when I saw him make all his dice control posts, but I thought better of it and refrained.

    I thought I might see Moses bring this up on Zenzone. This is some good stuff to run with...three, the dice control guru. The man is truelly jack of all trades when it comes to APing.
    I actually didn't know that. But I'm not surprised. So many have ripped into T3 at ZZ that I try to stay away from that. Everywhere, for that matter. Otherwise, it looks like I'm jumping on a bandwagon.

    Someone once told me which gave me a visual of T3. A nerdy looking guy with several phones, monitors, etc, etc. sitting in his basement all day with all these different handles writing away. From that, there was a time when I thought your conversations with T3 were him between two different people at the same time. Heck, I even thought he was KJ is some of those epic battles, talking back and forth to himself. I can see now I was giving him way too much credit. But considering his complex mind/ego? Nothing surprises me.

    ...And when Bosox came on board I thought he was Flash for awhile. lol

    For instance, a typical scenario. I might ask what to do on 12,13 vs 2,3,4. I knew what I did in a column count. But I wanted to hear what others did or how they approached the situation. Flash would say "if you've been playing since the Carter administration, then you should know what to do." Followed by T3. So I'd answer both. Repeat. Then Norm would delete their posts and tell me to stop posting so much. lol
    Last edited by Moses; 02-16-2019 at 09:42 AM.

  20. #60
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post

    Bob, It is very interesting that you bring Three into this discussion about his paranoia of casino lurkers following BJ boards. You are only getting the latest installment of the current Three mindset, as you are late to the table "as being relatively new to the forum" you missed the previous version of Three's antics, and it brings nothing but IRONY into the picture. Prior to your arrival at the forum the experimenting
    professor of BJ theory developed his own system that was showing extraordinary results and let's just say he became a little overzealous, to say the least. Wanting to disclose to the community about all his good fortune and positive variance he began his story. In numerous blackjack threads, we heard all about his great results he was having. Surprisingly he was doing all of this success in short session time frames, with very little negative variance. Personally, at the time I was not sure if he was trying to upstage Thorp's beat the dealer.
    Btw, have you noticed Three is a dice expert too? I found his latest posts on dice control interesting on how he can control the axis of their spin. He never ceases to amaze me. I was going to make some sarcastic comment when I saw him make all his dice control posts, but I thought better of it and refrained.

    I thought I might see Moses bring this up on Zenzone. This is some good stuff to run with...three, the dice control guru. The man is truelly jack of all trades when it comes to APing.

    Yah, I read that crap. He also claims to be a great Marksmen/hunter, fisherman, and a Gourmet cook. Personally I think he is getting ready to audition for the Doseki Beer commercials.

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